Catholic Satanism

[Ralf Biermann]

This article is not to insult any Catholic, but to expose the Catholic System.

In the book of Revelation, the Apocalypse of John, there is special focus on a counterfeit religious system, the whore of Babylon. Alexander Hislop has shown in his book „the two Babylons“, that all pagan systems had their origin in Babylon. I will go a step further and call the pagan systems satanic, because they display satanic characteristics.
The bible tells us that Satan deceives with half truth, because an outright lie would be realized immediately, for example he qoutes Bible verses out of context, so to give the interpretation of that verse another meaning. And he suggests the worship of a false god, to make the worship of the true God invalid. God does not tolerate the worship of another god.
The pagan systems have a lot of false gods, in a lot of cases it is one and the same god worshipped under a different name. Very often the similarity to the true religion is so strikingly, that one needs a good overview to judge between right and wrong. This is the case with the Babylonian goddess Semiramis. She exalted her husband Nimrod after his death, and he became a god in the eyes of the people. Nimrod was adored very much during his lifetime, so it was only a little step to make a god out of him. When Nimrod was dead, Semiramis made her little son Tammuz the main object of worship, because she said that Tammuz was the reincarnation of Nimrod. Thus Tammuz and Nimrod share the same titles as the description of this pagan god. Semiramis and her son Tammuz were very often depicted as a mother with a child in her arms, and soon the mother was worshipped more and more, since she attracted more attention than the little child.
Thus Semiramis became a goddess, and she shared the same titles with Nimrod, so we can say that the goddess was an image of this pagan god. Semiramis, Nimrod and Tammuz builded the pagan trinity, because they had all the same titles and melted into one goddess, Semiramis. Three gods united into one god, this is why the doctrine of the trinity became so popular among „Christians“, almost all „churches“ adopted it from the Catholic „Church“. The Catholics go one step further and give Mary the place of the Holy Ghost in the trinity, when they call her spouse of the Holy Ghost or Seat of Wisdom, so the pagan trinity is established: God-Jesus-Mary. The worship of God is neglected, and Jesus is just the son of Mary (he listens to the voice of his mother), so Mary has a leading position in this trinity. The Bible does not give any hint on a trinity (some verses are later additions), but says that Jesus is the Almighty and the Holy Ghost is the spirit of Jesus. Thus the Oneness of God is emphasized.
Among Semiramis many names are also titles like „Queen of Heaven“ or „Mother of God“ or „mea-domina“ (which became Madonna in Italian), the same titles which the Catholics have given to Mary, so today Semiramis is worshipped under the name of Mary. The Bible tells us that Mary was a blessed woman and she gave birth to her first son Jesus, but Mary was never the mediator of spiritual truth, neither was she sinless or remained a virgin, nor was she called the Queen of Heaven.
Let us have a look on the title „Mother of God“. The catholic reasoning is that Mary is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God, so Mary is the mother of God. At first sight this sounds logical, but it does not account for the dual nature of Jesus, that he was the son of man and son of God at the same time. God is a spirit who existed from eternity, and he does not have a mother, so it is quite misleading to call Mary „Mother of God“.
This age can be called the „Marian Age“, because there have never been so many apparitions of „Mary“ compared to former times, for example at Fatima and Medjugorje. Let us keep in mind that it is not Mary who is appearing, but an image of Satan. The messages of these apparitions reveal its hidden character, to unite all religions under the patronage of „Mary“ under the Catholic Church, without conversion to Christianity, since all religions are „equal“. This does not sound that bad, but it includes that anybody who defies that plan must be eliminated, like the Jews and potestant fundamentalists. The apparitions predicted that this process of unification will start once Mary is called coredemptrix. Millions of Catholics already asked the Pope to declare Mary coredemptrix and the Pope did, but this title is waiting to become dogma, maybe soon. It can be expected that there will be worldwide apparitions of „Mary“, since the apparitions already increased in frequency, which will build the common ground for all religions.
So Satan´s plan is to substitute Jesus with Mary, to redirect all worship to a false goddess, who is his image. Furthermore spiritual truth will be exchanged with lies, the best example is the Eucharist. According to Catholics the eater of the wafer should believe that he is eating Jesus flesh. Opposed to that is the spiritual truth, that Jesus is the Word, so his flesh is the word, which we should study.

Revelation 13:15-18 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not
worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that
hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six (666).

One might wonder why the children of God will not be able to buy and sell. This becomes clear when it is realized that merchandise is compared to wisdom and understanding in the Bible. So once Mary has gained worldwide worship, spiritual truth can not be exchanged anymore, since the people will be blinded with Satan´s image and will not only suppress any truth and true worshipper of God, but try to kill him. Alexander Hislop has shown that the number 666 belongs to the hidden god Saturn, which was worshipped as the offspring of the sun, and this is exactly the role that Satan is playing in this game, the false light and enlightener Lucifer. His representative is the Pope. This connection to the Pope is also emphasized by the fact that Rome was once called the city of Saturn, and the Pope is undeniably the head of Rome.

God´s plan is similar to that of Satan, but with a totally different outcome: to unite the Abrahamic religions under the patronage of the Messiah, while people from other nations and religions are invited to join the Abrahamic faith. But this unification will not happen with sacrificing spiritual truth, but with emphasizing it.

There is much more evidence that the Catholic „Church“ is a pagan cult. When Christianity was introduced into pagan Rome, almost everything stayed the same, only the names of the gods and the festivals had been replaced. The founders of this religion were very careful not to adopt the jewish festivals, since they did not want to have any connection with the Jews. This is very strange, since Jesus was a Jew, but when we keep in mind that Satan founded „Christianity“ we are not surprised. One evidence is the Christmas celebration, which was the birthday of some pagan gods. The analysis of the Bible story tells us that Jesus birth was somewhere around September-October.
Another item is the Word of God, the Catholics tried to hide it from the people, to be in power over the peoples salvation. Only when the Protestant Reformers risked their lifes and published the Bible, the Catholics printed their own Bible to start a Counter-Reformation. Last but not least a huge number of true saints were persecuted by the Catholic Church and lost their lifes.
In summary the Catholic Church has long been transformed into Satan´s church.

Let us examine a typical work of a Catholic „saint“, the Lord‘s Prayer by Francis of Assisi:
OUR FATHER most holy,
our Creator and Redeemer,
our Saviour and our Comforter.
WHO ART IN HEAVEN
in the angels and the saints,
giving them light to know you,
since you, Lord, are light;
setting them afire to love you,
since you, Lord, are love;
dwelling in them
and giving them fullness of joy,
since you, Lord,
are the supreme, eternal good,
and all good comes from you.
HALLOWED BE THY NAME,
may we grow to know you better and better
and so appreciate the extent of your favors,
the scope of your promises,
the sublimity of your majesty,
and the profundity of your judgements.
THY KINGDOM COME,
so that you may reign in us by your grace,
and bring us to your kingdom,
where we shall see you clearly,
love you perfectly and,
happy in your company, enjoy you forever.
THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN,
so that we may love you with all our heart,
by always having you in mind;
with all our soul,
by always longing for you;
with all our mind,
by determining to seek your glory in everything;
and with all our strength,
of body and soul,
by lovingly serving you alone.
May we love our neighbors as ourselves,
and encourage them all to love you,
by bearing our share
in the joys and sorrows of others,
while giving offence to no one.
GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD,
your beloved Son, our Lord Jesus Christ,
so that we may remember and appreciate
how much He loved us,
and everything he said and did and suffered.
AND FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES,
in your immeasurable mercy,
by virtue of the passion of your Son,
and through the intercession of Mary,
and all your saints.
AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US,
and if we do not forgive perfectly,
Lord, make us forgive perfectly,
so that, for love of you,
we may really forgive our enemies,
and fervently pray to you for them,
returning no one evil for evil,
but trying to serve you in everyone.
AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION,
be it hidden or obvious,
sudden or persistent.
BUT DELIVER US FROM EVIL,
past, present or future,
Amen.

At first sight this sounds like a perfect prayer. The second thought reveals its evil character:
Jesus has given us a perfect prayer, so there is no need to add any words. Francis of Assisi was arrogant to think that he could complete the Lord’s prayer with his own words.
Our daily bread is the Word of God. While it is correct that Jesus is the Word, Francis gives a hidden allusion to the false Eucharist, Jesus verbatim flesh.
And of course Mary is added to that prayer, which Jesus never did. Francis is saying that the intercession of Mary is needed, thus he is saying that Jesus is too hardhearted to forgive the sinner. Mary’s advice to Jesus is needed, since Mary has more heart for the sinner who prays to her. In opposition to that are Jesus words: John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Thus Francis is implying that Jesus has not enough love, which is one of the highest forms of blasphemy.
Francis assumes that Mary is alive, which is not mentioned in the Word of God. Mary was a blessed woman, but David was called most blessed. It is written that David sleeps in the grave, why should we assume that the lesser saint Mary is alive?

Greetings
Ralf

 

[Ralf Biermann]

Hello,

since I mentioned the trinity, I will add some thoughts. I think it is pure speculation what the true early church believed about the trinity after the books of the Bible have been written, since the counterfeit „church“ was already in existence ( I John 2:18-19 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.) and we don’t know how to separate their writings. So when we want to find out the truth, we have to look at the latest writings in the Bible, which are the writings of John, and reflect the opinion of the early church.

John wrote that Jesus is the Almighty and the true God. Furthermore Jesus has the seven spirits of God. Please note that the number seven denotes completeness, I do not think that Jesus has seven spirits in the literal sense.
Jesus is truth, and the Holy Ghost is the spirit of truth, so the Holy Ghost is the spirit of Jesus.

So the picture that John draws is that Jesus is the one and only God.

This is in opposition to the trinity, Jesus is just the second person of the trinity. And there is no third person, since the Holy Ghost is the spirit of Jesus.
The idea of the trinity arised with the following verses: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
And: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Both verses have been shown to be later additions.

But still there is the dual nature of Jesus: the Father and the Son, God is Love and Jesus is Truth, Son of Man and Son of God, God is a spirit and Jesus is the word made flesh.

On the one hand we have Jesus the man, who eats and breathes like every other man, and Jesus, who is the Word which created the universe. God can be both, only the contradiction of his word, the truth, is impossible. God can’t be a spirit and God in the flesh at the same time, therefore God became the Son of God and the truth remained intact.

The Revelation of Love and Truth emphasize that they belong together: True Love

Greetings
Ralf Biermann

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Ralf,

thank you for the post.

This article is not to insult any Catholic, but to expose the Catholic System.

hmm... we'll see about that as we read the post....

In the book of Revelation, the Apocalypse of John, there is special focus on a counterfeit religious system, the whore of Babylon. Alexander Hislop has shown in his book „the two Babylons“, that all pagan systems had their origin in Babylon.

we can stop right here. this is not correct... well... it could be depending on how you are defining "pagan". i'll presume that i'd be included in that, therefore, i can say that this is factually incorrect.

I will go a step further and call the pagan systems satanic, because they display satanic characteristics.

sigh... only for traditions that have a belief in Satan can this apply. simply because you believe that Satan is real and does things does not actually mean that this is so.

please explain the Satanic aspects of the Golden Dawn.

The bible tells us that Satan deceives with half truth, because an outright lie would be realized immediately, for example he qoutes Bible verses out of context, so to give the interpretation of that verse another meaning. And he suggests the worship of a false god, to make the worship of the true God invalid. God does not tolerate the worship of another god.

ok... standard henotheism... nothing new there.

The pagan systems have a lot of false gods, in a lot of cases it is one and the same god worshipped under a different name. Very often the similarity to the true religion is so strikingly, that one needs a good overview to judge between right and wrong.

what do you mean by "false".. not real?

Three gods united into one god, this is why the doctrine of the trinity became so popular among „Christians“, almost all „churches“ adopted it from the Catholic „Church“.

actually, you didn't establish this at all in the preceeding paragraph, nevertheless, if you have some source that supports your assertion, i'd be happy to read it.

Let us keep in mind that it is not Mary who is appearing, but an image of Satan.

i see. can you substantiate that claim?

Alexander Hislop has shown that the number 666 belongs to the hidden god Saturn, which was worshipped as the offspring of the sun, and this is exactly the role that Satan is playing in this game, the false light and enlightener Lucifer. His representative is the Pope. This connection to the Pope is also emphasized by the fact that Rome was once called the city of Saturn, and the Pope is undeniably the head of Rome.

you seem to be placing a LOT of credibility in Mr. Hislop and his historical research ability. does he include sources and references in his book for his conclusions?

God´s plan is similar to that of Satan, but with a totally different outcome: to unite the Abrahamic religions under the patronage of the Messiah, while people from other nations and religions are invited to join the Abrahamic faith. But this unification will not happen with sacrificing spiritual truth, but with emphasizing it.

i don't think that this is Gods' plan from the Jewish perspective. ask a few of them and you'll find this out for yourself. we've some very knowledgeable Jewish adherents on this forum, like bananabrain, whom you can query in more detail.

There is much more evidence that the Catholic „Church“ is a pagan cult.

present it. so far, you've presented no "evidence" of any sort, in my view, that can be considered as credible and factual.

In summary the Catholic Church has long been transformed into Satan´s church.

interesting conclusion, though it's not one that i could make given the information that you've presented herein.

Jesus has given us a perfect prayer, so there is no need to add any words. Francis of Assisi was arrogant to think that he could complete the Lord’s prayer with his own words.

interesting. in my theology classes this was understood to be a template for prayer, not an 'actual' prayer.

 

[iBrian]

Well, I figured that someone would eventually respond to this topic.

And those daft RC people - having a text apparently bashing them in their hands - so they canonised it. Tsk, what were they thinking?

 

[Mus Zibii]

I'm glad Vajradhara did. That was like... long. My poor ole attention span was trembling.

 

[Ralf Biermann]

Hello Vajradhara,

you asked me a lot of questions, which I can not answer all in this post, but I will try to start:
My article is written from a Christian point of view, therefore it might be more difficult to understand for a member of another religion. I think all religions (please correct me if I am wrong) describe the opposition of good and evil in some form, while evil might be personified as Satan or a part of the self or just the opposite good. I think we both agree that the condition of this world is far away from being good, so we can call it evil and can give a name for its evil root cause: Satan, the summary of evil. Religion is just the need for human beings to find a way to overcome evil, which might also be seen as the move to a higher level of consciousness.

I don’t think that there exists a true religion in this world, since all religious books contain half truth, Satan has done a good job, but I think that the Bible is closest to the truth. On the other hand I do not condemn people from other religions, because it depends on the individual what he makes out of it. Satan has a weak point: since he deceives with half truth, you only have to pick up the truth and you are still on the right track, but I think it is more difficult for religions which are farther away from Christianity. But it is written that people from all nations will be saved, but not all people.

So for a truth seeker it is wrong to concentrate on the contradictions of the different religions, but try to understand what thy have in common, for example:

1) Jesus is probably born in 5BC, which is the Chinese year of the dragon and is celebrated every 12 years.
2) The overcomer in the Bible reaches his final step after the eighth step, he becomes a son of God. Compare it with the eightfold path of the Buddha.
3) The light in the Bible is a symbol for the comprehension of the word. Other religions call it enlightenment.
4) The Psalms in the Bible give a hint that King David lived more than once, he also was Moses (and Josef). Other religions call it reincarnation, but I am not sure if it is restricted to David only.
My theory is that the prophet Muhammad and the apostle John were also David, and I am prettey sure that the overcomer in the Bible is David.
Therefore I would not be surprised if David was also Buddha, one and the same person leaves his fingerprints throughout history.

Greetings
Ralf

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Ralf,

thank you for the post.

Hello Vajradhara,

you asked me a lot of questions, which I can not answer all in this post, but I will try to start:

no worries, answer what you can and we'll go from there

My article is written from a Christian point of view, therefore it might be more difficult to understand for a member of another religion.

agreed.

I think all religions (please correct me if I am wrong) describe the opposition of good and evil in some form, while evil might be personified as Satan or a part of the self or just the opposite good. I think we both agree that the condition of this world is far away from being good, so we can call it evil and can give a name for its evil root cause: Satan, the summary of evil.

hmm... this implies absolutes which are not evidenced. what i may consider evil, say, eating a hamburger, is not what you might consider evil. these terms are relative to the percpetion of the experiencer and do not reflect a fundamental ontological reality.

futher, to "personify" evil is to anthropormorphize it, which is an incorrect approach in my view. it's rather the same as anthropormorphizing good, i.e. God. these are not "people" or "beings" in the sense that you and i are.

i certainly agree that our world system is not a paradisal existence... however, in our view, that would not be appropos for human existence.

I don’t think that there exists a true religion in this world, since all religious books contain half truth, Satan has done a good job, but I think that the Bible is closest to the truth.

naturally of course, i would ask you to consider the Tao Te Ching as a book that contains no "half truths". i would also ask you to consider the Lotus Sutra as a religious text that contains no half truths. as you may expect, these are more of my point of view

On the other hand I do not condemn people from other religions, because it depends on the individual what he makes out of it. Satan has a weak point: since he deceives with half truth, you only have to pick up the truth and you are still on the right track, but I think it is more difficult for religions which are farther away from Christianity. But it is written that people from all nations will be saved, but not all people.

well.. that's good that you don't condemn other religious adherents

of course, my religion doesn't really have a corresponding concept.. the closest that we would have is Mara, however, that is not "evil" per se, it's Illusion.

So for a truth seeker it is wrong to concentrate on the contradictions of the different religions, but try to understand what thy have in common, for example:

that's a good approach, in my view.

1) Jesus is probably born in 5BC, which is the Chinese year of the dragon and is celebrated every 12 years.

2) The overcomer in the Bible reaches his final step after the eighth step, he becomes a son of God. Compare it with the eightfold path of the Buddha.

the Noble Eight Fold Path is the Middle Way. you cannot apply this conception to a theistic tradition with any degree of intellectual honesty as this teaching does not stand alone. The Noble Eight Fold Path is the 4th Noble Truth, of the 4 Noble Truths. as this teaching directly emphasizes the lack of inherent self it is incompatible with most theistic systems that are pinned to a soul.

3) The light in the Bible is a symbol for the comprehension of the word. Other religions call it enlightenment.

there are many references to light in the Bible... one of them is Lucifer.. nevertheless, the term means different things depending on the context of its usage.

4) The Psalms in the Bible give a hint that King David lived more than once, he also was Moses (and Josef). Other religions call it reincarnation, but I am not sure if it is restricted to David only.

the Jewish religion calls this Gilgul and it is not restricted to anybody... every being undergoes this until they've purified their spiritual aspect. we've an interesting thread on this subject here:

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=524

My theory is that the prophet Muhammad and the apostle John were also David, and I am prettey sure that the overcomer in the Bible is David.
Therefore I would not be surprised if David was also Buddha, one and the same person leaves his fingerprints throughout history.

Greetings
Ralf

i would be quite surprised since David didn't teach what the Buddhas of the Three Times have taught. remember, though we usually are talking about the Buddha that arose in this era in this world system (Shakyamuni), there have been many Buddhas that have arisin in this world system prior. in fact, during this fortunate eon, we've had 5 Buddhas arise, with one more to come.

 

[bananabrain]

ha-satan in judaism has certainly nothing like the status he does in christianity, particularly *cough* in its more hysterical manifestations.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[Ralf Biermann]

Hello Bananabrain,

I don't understand that Satan in Judaism is different than in Christianity. Please explain.
I think at least the statements in the common book, the Old Testament, must give a good description of Satan.

Greetings
Ralf

 

[bananabrain]

oh blimey, not again. right -

ha-satan is hebrew for "the accuser". he is an angel. he works for G!D. he is like the public prosecutor (or district attorney if you are american) and has no power to actually do anything other than report back to the Heavenly Court on what sins you have committed. he is a witness not an actor. in other words, if you are interacting with him you are missing the point and, furthermore, he can't "make" you do anything, or "tempt" you. anything we do is down to us because we have free will and personal choice. without this the idea that you can sin is meaningless.

all this stuff about the vatican being secret satanists is just mad. yes, of course, they are/were often wrong or indeed very wrong, especially in the past, but that is because they are human beings and therefore capable of mistakes, stupidity, ignorance, greed, arrogance etc.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[Mus Zibii]

The whole establishment of Satan in Christianity as a dualist theme has always blown my mind. Unlike religions that split off of some form of Christianity, orothodox Christianity itself has no doctrine or remarks about rebeling angels. And monotheists who think of God as all powerful might find that implication offensive. The apologetics from Satan-believing Christians (who are many) is outrageous in its desperation.

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, Ralf Biermann! I don't recall meeting before, welcome!

To quickly answer Vaj's question about Hyslop's scholarship, yes the book was thoroughly researched and supported by archeological finds of that day and some time after. The book is on a par with Frazer's "Golden Bough" and almost contemporary with it. The original draft was from 1859, the complete book released in 1865, and revised with familial permission for several decades after. The revisions include archeological discoveries that further supported the ties. Some of the researchers included were Layard, Edward J. Cooper (Oxford, Fellow of the Royal Society, Royal Astronomical Society and member of the Royal Irish Academy), Bunsen, Wilkenson, Col. Vans Kennedy and many many others.

The primary difference I noted between Hyslop and Frazer is the intent behind the works, Frazer being an "apologist" of sorts for paganism, Hyslop intending to demonstrate the Papacy as the embodiment of anti-Christ. Further, Frazer was more involved in demonstrating similarity of rites and rituals, Hyslop being concerned more with drawing connections across cultural and religious boundaries.

Back to addressing the gist of the thread. I see an interesting take on Rev. Hyslop's Book. I read it long ago, and have kept a copy for reference ever since. I have even quoted it here. As much as I admire Hyslop's scholarship, I do question the motivations behind many in calling upon his work. The bombing at Oklahoma City and the events of 9/11 have forced me to rethink my previous position, that of "my way is the right way and all others are damned." I cannot quote the 2nd chapter of Romans often enough it seems. In short, those that do are held in more favor than those that hold the letter and do not, regardless of the doctrine they hold to. "These are a law unto themselves..."

I have stated here, and many other times and places, that I have known many good and decent people who happened to be Catholic. I do have reservations about the Catholic institution. Many of those reservations stem from Hyslop's work. But this does not mean a Catholic should be treated with any less dignity accorded any other person of any other faith. All people are to be accorded "common human decency," unless and until they demonstrate (specifically and individually) that they are not worthy of such entitlement. Actions speak louder than words. So it is good that you state:

...I do not condemn people from other religions, because it depends on the individual what he makes out of it.

Having qualified my position, I am now prepared to begin to address Hyslop's work.

I think all religions (please correct me if I am wrong) describe the opposition of good and evil in some form, while evil might be personified as Satan or a part of the self or just the opposite good. I think we both agree that the condition of this world is far away from being good, so we can call it evil and can give a name for its evil root cause: Satan, the summary of evil. Religion is just the need for human beings to find a way to overcome evil, which might also be seen as the move to a higher level of consciousness.

I think Vaj pointed out that not all religions "describe an opposition of good and evil." Satan, in his present form in the Christian tradition, is the product of a farce; Dante's Inferno. (I believe the work is actually titled "the Divine Comedy.") A being running around in long-handled underwear with a pointy tail and a pitchfork is a product of a writer's social commentary. As BananaBrain pointed out, the accuser is the one presented by the Old Testament and brought forth into the New Testament.

I don’t think that there exists a true religion in this world, since all religious books contain half truth, Satan has done a good job, but I think that the Bible is closest to the truth.

I suppose it depends who you ask. Every religious text has those who will support it, to death if necessary. I hold to the Bible as well, because it is the path I was born into and placed upon. Every other path I have looked into holds merit. If not, it would not last long, certainly not the centuries that most have been around for. (I realize many do not hold to the concept that age has significance, my point is that a path of no value will not last as a path.)

Satan has a weak point: since he deceives with half truth, you only have to pick up the truth and you are still on the right track, but I think it is more difficult for religions which are farther away from Christianity.

Of course, if Satan is doing his job, then how can one tell if they are not being deceived? In other words, how can one tell which half is truth?

But it is written that people from all nations will be saved, but not all people.

Yes, it is. I already mentioned Romans 2. Much more can be found in Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Daniel, not to mention the lesser prophets. The Thousand year reign of Peace.

So for a truth seeker it is wrong to concentrate on the contradictions of the different religions, but try to understand what thy have in common,

Yes, this is called "tolerance." Tolerance is born of forgiveness. Forgiveness is more important than being absolutely right.

Jesus is probably born in 5BC, which is the Chinese year of the dragon and is celebrated every 12 years.

I have heard convincing arguments for anywhere from 3-5 BC.

The overcomer in the Bible reaches his final step after the eighth step, he becomes a son of God.

My understanding is that the "overcomer" is reference to anybody that overcomes, at the very least in the Christian sense. The comment about "eighth step" has me wondering, what is this reference to?

The light in the Bible is a symbol for the comprehension of the word. Other religions call it enlightenment.

Like BB said, "light" is reference to many things, depending on context.

The Psalms in the Bible give a hint that King David lived more than once, he also was Moses (and Josef). Other religions call it reincarnation, but I am not sure if it is restricted to David only.

I have heard of this before, but I am not familiar with it. The only example I came away with was that of Elijah being on the mount of transfiguration, along with Moses. Christ implied that John Baptist was "come in the spirit of Elias (Elijah)." There is also the connection, I believe by Paul, I think in the letter to the Hebrews, making a connection between Jesus and Melchizedek, the undying priest Abraham made offering to.

I am torn on the subject of reincarnation. I have come to the conclusion that if I treat this life as the only I am entitled to, and live my life as such, then my "Karma" should be to the better. Whereas, I suspect if I took the attitude of "if I screw up, I'll just make up for it next time" I would be much more lax in my moral diligence. But this is mine, not scriptural or doctrinal. Modified Pascal's wager?

In the book of Revelation, the Apocalypse of John, there is special focus on a counterfeit religious system, the whore of Babylon. Alexander Hislop has shown in his book „the two Babylons“, that all pagan systems had their origin in Babylon.

Yes, this is essentially correct.

I will go a step further and call the pagan systems satanic, because they display satanic characteristics.

However, this conclusion is not. Pagans as a rule do not worship, or even acknowledge Satan. Surprized? I was.

The bible tells us that Satan deceives with half truth, because an outright lie would be realized immediately, for example he qoutes Bible verses out of context, so to give the interpretation of that verse another meaning. And he suggests the worship of a false god, to make the worship of the true God invalid.

I have heard Satan referred to as a scripture lawyer. I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said something like; "The devil can quote scripture too, and use it to his purposes."

God does not tolerate the worship of another god.

True. The Ten Commandments. However, "another god" can just as easily be money, a wife or child, a lover, an automobile, a rock star, or anything that holds one's attention in lieu of God.

The pagan systems have a lot of false gods, in a lot of cases it is one and the same god worshipped under a different name.

I suppose I can see where a Christian can get the impression of "false gods," which were anthropomorphous expressions of natural elements and phenomenon. Frazer's work highlights this, in that the vast majority of the pagan systems were based on agricultural requirements. Rain, sun, moon, harvest, planting, and general fertility. To any ancient people not versed in the "One God" fits all concept, these requirements were assigned their individual personifications.
Of course, depending who one asks, the Christian God might be thought to be a false god. Depending on perspective and closed-mindedness, one brought up with due diligence in another form of worship may be quite comfortable where they are at. And rightly so; after all, God made everyone and placed them where they are.

Very often the similarity to the true religion is so strikingly, that one needs a good overview to judge between right and wrong.

Actually, this is the foundation of the long running question here of "where did Judaism (and Christianity) come from?" Which came first, the chicken or the egg? The oldest known complete manuscript I am aware of is a copy of the book of Isaiah found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated to about 100 BC. If there are older manuscripts, they are not older by much. My understanding is that a lot of the books now codified in the Old Testament went through a consolidation during the reign of Solomon, which fuels the redaction theory controversy. I am not versed well enough, but there are extensive posts to this elsewhere by others much more familiar than I, including BB, whose scholarship I admire.

A great deal of the discussion revolves around who predated whom, Moses or Akhenaten. Either way, Moses was raised in the court of Pharoah to be a prince of Egypt. There is a lot of weight that carries in these few words.

 

[juantoo3]

It appears I am a bit log-winded today. Apologies!

Concerning Semiramis, Nimrod and Tammuz, I believe you are mostly in accord with Hyslop, so I will add nothing further right now. Other than that Cush was overlooked. Cush being the father of Nimrod, both of whom are mentioned in Genesis, post-Noahic flood. Cush is said to have diverted the Nile and founded the nation of Egypt, after he was exiled from Mesopotamia (Sumeria), according to Hyslop.

...the Eucharist. According to Catholics the eater of the wafer should believe that he is eating Jesus flesh. Opposed to that is the spiritual truth, that Jesus is the Word, so his flesh is the word, which we should study.

Quite right. The term "cannibal" stems from "khana-baal", priest of Baal, according to Hyslop. This is from their specific practice of eating the flesh of the children offered in sacrifice.

Revelation 13:15-18 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not
worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that
hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six (666).

I have heard many interpretations of this passage, all of which claimed some type of authority. I have heard "the beast" and "666" referred to as people ranging from George W. Bush to an Austrian prince. Likely before this person manifests, there will be many more added to the list.

BTW, "...in the right hand, or in their foreheads..." is an idiom referring to "thought and deed."

God´s plan is similar to that of Satan, but with a totally different outcome: to unite the Abrahamic religions under the patronage of the Messiah, while people from other nations and religions are invited to join the Abrahamic faith. But this unification will not happen with sacrificing spiritual truth, but with emphasizing it.

Again, I refer to the above ongoing discussion about which came first. As for invitation, most every path I have looked into welcomes converts, because, well, they all have the absolute truth (according to them), and are more than happy to share it.

There is much more evidence that the Catholic „Church“ is a pagan cult. When Christianity was introduced into pagan Rome, almost everything stayed the same, only the names of the gods and the festivals had been replaced.

I have commented to this in the past. There are political reasons, not to mention social upheaval, associated with the "overnight" legalization of Christianity and outlawing of Roman style paganism under the aegis of Constantine.

This was furthered throughout Europe under the aegis of Charlemagne about 600 years later as I recall. Frazer highlights the fact that "paganism" was the religion and practice of the common people. Especially under Charlemagne, peasants were converted at the point of a sword. As a professor of mine is happy to point out, the people were herded through a creek with a priest standing upstream blessing the water. This is hardly a conversion. The peasants went home, wet but unchanged, and returned to the practices they were familiar with. As long as they posed no threat and paid their taxes, the authority (including the Catholic Church) didn't really care. It was when authority was challenged that violence was used.

Heck, the Catholic Church even persecuted Christians, from the time of Constantine up to the Spanish Inquisition. And then there's the little matter of the 4 Crusades!

This is very strange, since Jesus was a Jew,

Are you listening, BB? Does this help explain a little better where I am coming from?

The analysis of the Bible story tells us that Jesus birth was somewhere around September-October.

Yes, He is thought by some to have been born sometime during the Feast of Weeks (Feast of Tabernacles?).

Another item is the Word of God, the Catholics tried to hide it from the people, to be in power over the peoples salvation. Only when the Protestant Reformers risked their lifes and published the Bible, the Catholics printed their own Bible to start a Counter-Reformation.

Ummm, this is essentially correct, but not quite. The common people were not taught to read and write, true, but that was more an economic problem. To be sure, authority (state and clergy) used it to their advantage. And this is why a farce such as Dante's "Divine Comedy" could sway the thinking of the masses. The ruling elite was no more convinced by Dante's work than for seeing it as the farce it was intended to be.

I have seen this concept played out before my eyes, one of the reasons I seldom attend Church. When a preacher quotes 1 and 1/2 verses and then spends the next two hours talking about the corporate structure of McDonalds restaurants, he is not a man of God in my eyes.

I could add that Protestantism was founded by Martin Luthur using a Catholic Bible!

Last but not least a huge number of true saints were persecuted by the Catholic Church and lost their lifes.

True, but even "saint" is a relative term. A saint to one may be just another heretic or infidel to another.

since I mentioned the trinity, I will add some thoughts.

I have heard a number of takes on this as well.

the number seven denotes completeness,

Yes, there is numerology that is played throughout the Bible. Of course, depending which Christians one talks to, numerology is of the devil too, as an esoteric ritual that is pagan and sinful and ....

So the picture that John draws is that Jesus is the one and only God.

If you have access to a Strong's Concordance, a very worthwhile study is to look up the term "word" as it is used in the opening of the Gospel of John. Eye-opening.

On the one hand we have Jesus the man, who eats and breathes like every other man, and Jesus, who is the Word which created the universe.

Another worthwhile study is that of the undying priest Melchizedek. Then one can see why Paul associates Jesus with this mysterious person who is foundational to the Abrahamic faiths. Actually, I would love to hear BB's take on the matter if he wouldn't mind.

It has been a pleasure. Hyslop's work is a favorite of mine. I am also thoughtful enough to consider other sources, and to not be jaded by one man's interpretation. Or worse, a third party's interpretation of one man's interpretation. I have had the misfortune of finding those who selectively quote Hyslop to their own ends, ignoring his scholarship when it contradicts their cherished beliefs.

I would be happy to continue this conversation if you would like.

 

[Ralf Biermann]

Introduction

I would like to introduce myself, so you get an idea of my point of view. I am 39 years old, an electrical engineer, married to my wife Iris and have a little son Raphael. We live in Germany. I was catholic, but did not know much about the Bible. I only believed in something good and true love.
In 1996 I went on a business trip to Florida, which lasted for three month, and an unexpect thing happened: I fell in love with another woman, but I did not contact her. Back in Germany I thought about good and evil for a long time. I came to the conclusion that God doesn’t exist, so good and evil don’t exist also and I can do everything I want. After 2 years I decided to move to Florida and signed a contract for 2 years to work there. Almost immediately I became mentally ill, I started to hear voices, which were evil in most cases and had a religious character. I went to a psychiatrist and I realized that my wife is my only love and finally we had a good time in Florida. Since I heard a lot of false voices, I had a strong desire to know the truth and I read the Bible.
Since I was catholic, I read a book about the Marian apparitions at Medjugorje. When I had a psychosis (I thought I could stop taking medication since I felt ok), and was in the process to leave the Catholic Church, two things happened:
1) I closed my eyes and saw a circle of light and I knew this was God. Later I found out that God can be described by a circle: The Holy Ghost is the spirit of truth, truth is the word of God, the word of God is Jesus, Jesus is God, God is a spirit and the circle is closed. The light is a symbol for the comprehension of the Word of God.
2) I wanted to write a negative comment about the apparitions at Medjugorje, but then i heard the voice of „Mary“, she was complaining, but more in a loving way. I was shaken in my beliefs. Later I had a night where I could not sleep and was thinking about Mary. Finally I gave her the place of the Holy Ghost in the trinity. It took some time until I realized that this was totally wrong and I became a Protestant. Today I think that the apparitions at Medjugorje are real, but an image of Satan is appearing. So Satan tried to seduce me.
Please note to the issue Mary-trinity: It is written: Jesus is truth, God is love. What is the Holy Ghost? With the third component wisdom we can build a trinity: love-truth-wisdom. But the Holy Ghost is called the spirit of truth, so there is no third component. Jesus and the Father are one: Truth+Love=True Love, wisdom is not needed in True Love, but will result out of it.
The snake, the symbol for Satan, is also a symbol for wisdom in the pagan thought. Does it surprise you that the Catholics call Mary „Seat of Wisdom“ or „Spouse of the Holy Ghost“ ?

I don’t have problems with my mental illness anymore, but one thing remained: I identify myself with the overcomer in the book of Revelation and I want to become a Son of God. You can call it megalomania if you will.

There are eight (9) steps for the overcomer:
0) The overcomer has faith in Jesus. Since Jesus is truth, have faith in truth (for other religions than Christianity)
1) The overcomer has left his first love and should do the first works. This happened when I returned to my wife and Jesus. The overcomer may eat of the tree of life, he lives eternal.
2) The devil will cast the overcomer into prison. Indeed I was cast into prison when I had a psychosis and was sitting on a bench in front of a restaurant and did not want to go away. The overcomer will not die the second death, which means he will not be judged for his sins.
3) The overcomer supports the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes and the things sacrificed unto idols. This means he listens to religous leaders and he thinks the catholic Eucharist is holy. The overcomer should repent. This was fulfilled when my first doubts in the Catholic doctrines appeared. The overcomer receives the hidden manna and a new name. Manna is the bread from heaven, and it is the word of God. So the hidden manna are hidden things in the word of God. This was fulfilled when I substituted the symbols with its spiritual meaning, for example: fire-the word of God. Jesus baptized with fire, that means he baptized with the Word. I received the name John when I read the verses and felt „something“: There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. I head the idea to baptize with truth, therefore I am writing articles and publish them in the internet.
4) The overcomer tolerates the woman Jezebel. A woman in scripture is the symbol for a church, in this case an apostasy church, which is the Catholic Church. The overcomer should hold fast to the things he has, and in the end he will receive power over the nations and the morning star, which is Jesus spirit. This was started to be fulfilled when I left the Catholic Church.
5) The overcomer’s works are not perfect before God, he should strengthen the things which remain. I wrote negative comments about Islam, later I changed my mind. The overcomer will be clothed in white raiment, which means his sins will be blotted out.
6) The overcomer is weak, but he has not denied Jesus name. I had distributed christian letters via email from my work place. Our president became aware of it. I said that I am committed to the things I wrote and that I am a convinced Christian.
The overcomer will stay in the temple of God, which means he will not loose his faith anymore. Furthermore he receives Jesus new name, which is also the name of the heavenly Jerusalem. When I was weak I read the Psalms to find some comfort, and I felt something when I read the verse: The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended. It was like to receive the name David. Then I found in the Old Testament several verses which say that David will be king. A part of Jerusalem was also called city of David.
7) The overcomer is lukewarm and will be rejected of Jesus. He should buy from Jesus gold tried in the fire (faith) and white raiment (sinlessness). I had my struggle with the Word of God, since I found contradictions, but you might also say that Jesus, the word; had his struggle with me. I already received the things which I should buy from Jesus, but the problem was the awareness that I already had these like the forgiveness of sins.
The overcomer should open the door and Jesus comes in. How do we open the door? With a key. I found the Key of David when I found out that the Muslims are included in the plan of salvation. The key to complete the circle (the Holy Ghost is the spirit of truth, truth is the word of God, the word of God is Jesus, Jesus is God, God is a spirit) is: Jesus is the Word. The prophet Muhammad as well as the apostle John said this. Muhammad knew the claim of Christianity and believed in the oneness of God, the claim of the Jews, which the circle emphasizes as opposed to the trinity, so he must have known how to complete the circle. There are reasons which we don’t know why he didn’t confirm this. Just try to imagine the Muslims held the Jews accountible for the crucifixion, a future reunion would have been impossible.
I had the true realization that Jesus dwells in my heart, that he was with me all the time.
The overcomer will sit with Jesus on the throne, just like Jesus is sitting with his Father on the throne. Since Jesus and the Father are one, the overcomer and Jesus are also one, since he has Jesus spirit.
8) The overcomer overcomes MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH in the battle at Armageddon and finally he will become a Son of God. The second Babylon is the Catholic Church. Armageddon means hill of fruits.
I am in the process of presenting my fruits and only have to wait when the Catholics will start to fight.
One might ask why God has his focus on the Catholic Church? Because they should have known better, but the pagans might be forgiven because they don’t know it any better. It depends on the individual, what he makes out of religion.

Greetings
Ralf

Sorry for this long article and I will forgive you when you call me mad.

 

[iBrian]

Re: Introduction

I enjoy it when people invite the title of "mad" on themselves. A lot of us have been through strange experiences that remain beyond the norm, and at some point we have to question our sanity and the sense of what is "reality". Therefore to claim the self to be mad is often the most sane thing to do.

Even if I'm not sure I agree with your specific ideas, I can agree with something of your outlook.

 

[juantoo3]

Re: Introduction

Kindest Regards, Ralf Bierman!

Wow! You have quite an experience, so it is no wonder you have come to the conclusions you have. I don't know that I would consider you mad, like everybody else you have experiences that mould your faith and belief. Some I have seen drop any pretense of faith at the first excuse, the first sign of conflict, and typically become jaded for the rest of their lives, or until a major life crisis occurs. I have to give you credit for hanging in there and at least trying to sort the matter out for yourself. You're on the right path, hang in there!

Since I was catholic, I read a book about the Marian apparitions at Medjugorje.

Is this the distorted light playing on an office building down around Tampa or St. Pete? Personally, I think that one was some wise guy's shoddy workmanship, but it draws a crowd every year.

Today I think that the apparitions at Medjugorje are real, but an image of Satan is appearing. So Satan tried to seduce me.

I did not say, nor mean to imply, that Satan is not real. What I was trying to get across is that the traditional Christian description of him is misleading and false. Yes, there are spirits whose purpose it would seem is to put stumbling blocks in our paths. One must be on guard, but the only power they have over a person is the power that person surrenders to them. Especially if your are "in the Word."

The snake, the symbol for Satan, is also a symbol for wisdom in the pagan thought.

It was also on the tribal banner of one of the tribes of Israel, Dan as I recall. Also the Caduceous of Hippocrates, the physician's staff. Also Aaron's rod was made into a serpent, and ate all of Pharoah's priest's rod-serpents. The serpent seduced Eve, in every sense of the word, in the Garden of Eden, before he was cursed to crawl about on his belly.

I don’t have problems with my mental illness anymore, but one thing remained: I identify myself with the overcomer in the book of Revelation and I want to become a Son of God. You can call it megalomania if you will.

Why would it be megalomania for wanting to overcome, in accord with your tradition? Some less considerate might spew such words to be hurtful, but they are known by their ignorance and their fruit. Overcoming is part and parcel of the Christian faith, at least to anyone who has the wherewithal to get beyond the perpetual salvation parties held every weekend, and midweek, and at revivals, and...(oh, sorry, got a little distracted). My point being, for a genuine and diligent student of the Bible, overcoming is a natural part of the course. Congratulations!

Thank you for your list of 8 things. I am not sure where these come from, but if they are a help to you, great. I did see a couple of things I would politely disagree with or call into question. I will be polite.

The overcomer may eat of the tree of life, he lives eternal.

The tree of life is not made available unto after the Great White Throne Judgement. So, your statement is true at that time, not now.

The devil will cast the overcomer into prison.

I think you see and understand already that "prison" is a relative term. All of our faiths are tried, especially those that get closer to the real truth. Overcoming is the reward for hanging in there and not giving up.

The overcomer supports the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes and the things sacrificed unto idols. This means he listens to religous leaders and he thinks the catholic Eucharist is holy. The overcomer should repent.

OK, you lost me here. Are you saying the overcomer has to be Catholic just to shed Catholicism? I would have to disagree. I take communion as a token sign to my Lord of my faith, I am not, nor ever have, viewed it as the manifest blood and flesh of Messiah. It is representative, it is symbolic. I also annoint my house, my family, and myself with olive oil, again as a symbolic token of my faith to my Heavenly Father.

I head the idea to baptize with truth, therefore I am writing articles and publish them in the internet.

This is well and good, but keep in mind that "truth" is a relative term. What is true to you may not be truth to another. I realize this sounds contradictory, I had always considered truth to be fact, and still do. But Biblical and spiritual truth are not fact in the same sense. Not all people can or should be able to see it, because they were placed into a different truth that is no less true.

The overcomer tolerates the woman Jezebel. A woman in scripture is the symbol for a church, in this case an apostasy church, which is the Catholic Church.

Ooooh, I'm afraid I will have to disagree here too. Yes, the church is described as a woman, no argument there. The tolerance of Jezebel is that I have difficulty with. Jezebel was a very evil person. If your analogy is correct, and the Jezebel you speak of is the false church of Revelation, then tolerance is not the term I would use. I would use a term more like defensive readiness. Speaking specifically of this period of time, it is written: "Here is the patience and the faith of the saints, He that kills with the sword must be killed with the sword, He that leads into captivity must be led away into captivity." Elsewhere it is written not to associate with churchs you know to be doing wrong, do not even "wish them godspeed," because you then become part and parcel of their errent way, and are guilty of the same they are held accountable for.

The overcomer’s works are not perfect before God, he should strengthen the things which remain.

This is true, but it is also true even of a neophyte or fresh convert. It is true of all believers, not just the overcomers.

The overcomer is weak, but he has not denied Jesus name.

Here, I must disagree. The overcomer is strong, because of Jesus.

I had distributed christian letters via email from my work place. Our president became aware of it. I said that I am committed to the things I wrote and that I am a convinced Christian.

This is actually a side issue, but a relative one. Would you steal? Are you aware that by using company time and resources, you were stealing? It is not wrong to be a Christian in the workplace, but one should serve as an example, not use their faith as an excuse. Sending the emails may or may not have been wrong, depending how receptive the receivers were to them, but using resources that do not belong to you to do so is not right, regardless of the message. It may sound worldly, but it is wise, that at work your priority is to the person paying you. Once you are the best employee, then be a Christian (or whatever faith). You are there to do a job, do it first.

The overcomer is lukewarm and will be rejected of Jesus.

No. The overcomer is the one Jesus holds dear to him, the sheep of His fold whom He will never reject. The lukewarm that are spewed out of His mouth are the wishy-washy, inordinate, hypocritical, unstable-minded and reprobates. God would rather one take a clear stand, for or against. The fence sitters are the lukewarm, and they are cast aside.

He should buy from Jesus gold tried in the fire (faith) and white raiment (sinlessness).

I am not sure what it is you mean by this. The overcomers are the gold that is tried in the fire, and the silver separated from the dross. And the white raiment covers sins, forgiveness by good works. So if by purchase you mean doing for God, then you are correct. Forgiveness is also purchased by the blood of the lamb, Jesus.

the problem was the awareness that I already had these like the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus is quick to forgive those who have a sincere and contrite heart. The "problem" lies in learning to forgive yourself. It is a very important lesson to learn.

The overcomer should open the door and Jesus comes in.

This is the first step for any believer. As for the rest about keys, I do not know what it is you are referring to. The pope claims to hold the two keys, of Peter and Paul, but that is a Catholic teaching.

The overcomer will sit with Jesus on the throne, just like Jesus is sitting with his Father on the throne. Since Jesus and the Father are one, the overcomer and Jesus are also one, since he has Jesus spirit.

"In My Father's house are many mansions (abodes)..."
It is not given to the overcomers to sit on the throne, it is given to sit at the throne, there is a distinction.

The overcomer overcomes MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH in the battle at Armageddon and finally he will become a Son of God.

This is the definition of the overcomer in a nutshell.

The second Babylon is the Catholic Church.

This may or may not be, it remains to be seen.

Armageddon means hill of fruits.

Strong's Greek 717: of Heb. or. (2022 and 4023); Armageddon (or Har-Meggiddon), a symbol, name - Armageddon.
Strong's Heb. 2022: har - hill (country), mount (-ain), x promotion.
Strong's Heb. 4023: Megiddow, a place in Palestine- Megiddo, Megiddon

My understanding is that Armageddon is the valley of Meggido, below the mountain(s).

One might ask why God has his focus on the Catholic Church? Because they should have known better, but the pagans might be forgiven because they don’t know it any better.

I still have to uphold the teaching of Jesus, "Judge not, that you be not judged. Forgive, that you may be forgiven." I will leave this in God's hands.

It depends on the individual, what he makes out of religion.

Which is what it all comes down to for everybody.

I will forgive you when you call me mad.

You are not mad. Like so many of us, you are trying to learn. If learning is madness, then I must be as looney as God can make me, and I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste juan,

sorry i missed this last time around...

re: living you life as if this was the last one for if you know that reincarnation would happen, you might tend towards the lazy

this is, from what i can tell, specifically the reason that Gilgul isn't taught publically.. it's a teaching for the "spiritually mature". i'm sure that bananabrain can shed more light on this...

 

[wil]

Old threads have some interesting reading...

 

[Quahom1]

Old threads have some interesting reading...

For some I suppose.

 

[bananabrain]

particularly if they enjoy the phrase "cluck cluck gibber gibber my old man's a mushroom etc".

b'shalom

bananabrain