Are there any vegans in this forum ?

Avi

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Do you think McD's is cruel to chickens (see the video) ?

McCruelty Hits the Web | NBC Chicago

Are there any ethical issues related to killing chickens ? How about eating them ?

Are you a fan of PETA ?

What if the gov't required that we eat tofu burgers ?

Why can't we all be vegans ?
 
obviously the ethical treatment of animals for food or otherwise is a major religious issue.

i approve of vegetarianism and veganism, not least because meat is, i'm sure, rarely sustainable and also because the latter drives the product development of dairy-free stuff which is really useful in kosher cooking, plus according to rav kook we'll all be veggie when meshiah comes anyway. and in the mean time, the less meat other people eat, the more for me (when i was single, i used this argument to approve of homosexuality - more girls for me, hur hur hur). actually, come to think of it, same applies to teetotaling, so get on the wagon, you lot - and send me the keys to your drinks cabinets while you're at.

as for PETA, they are a bunch of fundamentalist hysterics who want to impose their own taleban-style régime on the rest of us, including the banning of kashrut and hallaal, so as far as i am concerned, they can kiss my fat sephardi arse after i've had a kebab.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Jean freeman....er...is dauer...?

Do you think McD's is cruel to chickens (see the video) ?

Do bears poop in the woods? :rolleyes:

I'll decline the vid thanks .


Are there any ethical issues related to killing chickens ?

More bear pooping locations Avi ;)


How about eating them ?

No thanks.

Are you a fan of PETA ?

Sure am. (and the E stands for...)

What if the gov't required that we eat tofu burgers ?

Which govt? Don't think govt coercion on dietery choices is good.

Why can't we all be vegans?

Not possible all around the world, I would have thought.

s.
 
snoopdog said:
Which govt? Don't think govt coercion on dietery choices is good.
We are already gov't coerced via advertising and more.... Fat free milk...no such thing but milk is not required to list actual fat content because then folks wouldn't drink it and we need milk, NOT!

1% of all pork sales from farmers to the market is required by law from congress to go to the American Pork Council....they lobbied and got it added... and it has funded millions of dollars of commercials 'Pork America's other white meat' and increased sales dramatically.

The lobbyists have been involved in creating our dieatary recommendations ever since the four food groups and each and every 'pyramid' incarnation. Insuring that Meat stay on the chart.

We've now passed laws on transfats and fats in general, meanwhile still subsidizing farmers (funny how nobody screams socialism there)

(oh and me...no not vegan...don't eat store bought legged things though, do eat fish, eggs, cheese, yogurt and occasionally what gets in front of some friend's gun)
 
What if the gov't required that we eat tofu burgers ?
What if the gov't required that we eat meat when the meat lovers got into power? (Having our diets dictated by the whims of those ho happen to be in power at the moment? NO THANKS!) It was tough enough when my parents forced me to drink milk as a child. (There are several undesirable side effects associated with my drinking milk.)

Why can't we all be vegans ?
That would certainly be difficult for those, such as the Inuit, who live in areas where agriculture is difficult at best.
 
That would certainly be difficult for those, such as the Inuit, who live in areas where agriculture is difficult at best.

Are these the people who write our tax software, like Turbo Tax ??

If so, not only should they not be given meat, they should be denied food of all kind. :D
 
i approve of vegetarianism and veganism....

......and in the mean time, the less meat other people eat, the more for me....

....(when i was single, i used this argument to approve of homosexuality - more girls for me, hur hur hur).
Um, BB, thats ok for this vegan thread, bu you might want to keep this part off the feminist thread :D !


as for PETA, they are a bunch of fundamentalist hysterics who want to impose their own taleban-style régime on the rest of us, including the banning of kashrut and hallaal, so as far as i am concerned, they can kiss my fat sephardi arse after i've had a kebab.

Since we know that you are a heterosexual, from the last part, is it fair to assume that you like the part where they put the beautiful naked girls in the cages ? :)

Oh man, this thread is going down hill quickly !!
 
avi - that is actually a rather silly argument. what i object to about PETA is their imposing their puritanical and astoundingly illiberal points of view on the rest of us, as well as their determination to paint judaism and islam as "animal abuse". as for heterosexuality, it was merely a point about the male preference for quantity (stick insicts take note), but i'm sure not one that feminists will approve of.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
macdonalds are no crueller to chickens than what the State allows them to be... I won't watch the video- I've just eaten my dinner...

i do not eat meat... yet, having just feasted on jelly sweets, containing pork gelatine, you can see that I am not a "pure/pious" veggie...

why do I not eat meat? because it tastes like turds, like actual excrement, so I don't bother with it.

Are there any ethical issues related to killing chickens? of course there is. If you are going to kill animals for food then ideally, you should kill them yourself, prepare them yourself, and eat them yourself. If you are too squeamish to do that, then you should not eat meat.

Beyond that, what can be ethical about eating meat? Lets' keep them in sunny fields, and corn fed by fair maidens, before we cut off their heads and boil them?

Am I a fan of PETA? no... I know little of them, but rate them as extremists and as I think extremism is extremism no matter how noble the cause appears I instinctively don't like them...

What if the Gov't required that we eat Tofu burgers? There would be mass riots, and after that, dogs and cats would begin to disappear off the streets, and succulent smells would waft over the wall from next doors illegal meat barbeque...

Why can't we all be vegans? I would riot and I would encourage others to do the same... I suspect that the majority of vegans have undiagnosed eating disorders, and science has also been thinking the same thing recently (am too lazy to look for evidence)

milk, icecream, chocolate, butter, eggs, all good, useful foods.

How anyone can be that anal about food is, I feel, obscene... I disagree with veganism. Chickens give eggs, and cows give milk, with or without the intervention of humans, and without the animals destruction. Milk is the best source of calcium available to humans, and eggs are full of amino acids which the body and brain needs for healthy development... I know ppl here don't agree with this, and will probably quote stats to prove otherwise, but I will ignore them... (lol)

if you are wealthy, then veganism is a piece of cake, albeit pretty tasteless cake... most of the poor white trash survive on cheap meat of dubious origins and if you take it away they will not eat lentils unless someone shows them a picture of what lentils actually look like...

for me, the debate is different... I feel the debate is really about how affluent, relatively well educated people wish to enforce their version of morality on others without providing these others with the money or tools they need to adopt the new moralities... I also think that society as a whole does not place much value on food, and are not prepared to pay what it really costs, and while they are part of the food chain they have become so far removed from the bloody processes involved that they no longer respect the lives they consume without consideration...
 
. Chickens give eggs, and cows give milk, with or without the intervention of humans, and without the animals destruction. Milk is the best source of calcium available to humans, and eggs are full of amino acids which the body and brain needs for healthy development... I know ppl here don't agree with this, and will probably quote stats to prove otherwise, but I will ignore them... (lol)...
Prepare to ignore away..

I'll let you look up your own stats, no use posting them for you, if you won't review. You are a smart individual though. Borrow from the library (actually you better buy it, you'll want to lend it to your friends which you love) Diet for a New America...the man gave up his inheritance to the Baskin Robbins fortune by writing this book.

But you are talking nonsense. You think chicken lay eggs for your omelette? No they do this to procreate, to create little chickens. And you think cows give milk for your ice cream?? No they are lactating to feed their young...and to assist them in gaining 600 pounds in the next 6 months... Yes we humans are the only ones that continue to drink milk after we are weaned....not only that we drink cross species milk...that makes a ton of sense. Oh and yes, milk is a calcium loss....hence the reason the countries with the highest dairy consumption US and Norway have the highest cases of osteoporosis...something which is eliminated by calcium intake....

FK, you are so much smarter than all that.
 
l'd second that,
Calcium Rich Foods: Get All The Calcium You Need Without Milk

watched a programme on the even more extreme fruitarians, one of whom is a colonic irrigator who sees all the crud from western diets; she says she cannot date a meat eater because of the smell!! a bit like the disgust a non smoker feels when kissing a smoker maybe. Still, fruitarians emphasise the energy they attainl which l can attest to even with the small amount of juiced fruit l drink. In our rushed society it boils down to time and mess to clean up..right now l am pissed off with myself by the amount of packaged consumables l buy just for convenience:(

Tofu and quorm foods are great but are they GM? are the fruit irradiated? argh... maybe breatharian is the way to go
 
Wil said:
Oh and yes, milk is a calcium loss....

Right, which is why a lot of milk has to be enriched with calcium and vitamin D.

To answer the OP, I used to be vegan and still would be if I hadn't met my girlfriend. She's not and I was willing to compromise on that. I have however gotten her to eat a lot less meat and dairy than she used to which is all good by me. I've never had a problem with the slaughter of animals for food. I object to the way the animals area treated throughout their lives before their slaughter. Let's face it: death sucks. And if you're some sort of herbivore there's a chance a predator's gonna snatch you up and tear your living body apart. We humans are better about animal slaughter than most other types of slaughtering animals. But the direction that domestication has gone is pretty bad. Free range is a plus but in the states it's not too heavily regulated.

To answer your questions:

McD's is cruel, yeah, and so are many other manufacturers of our fine feathered friends.

I don't see ethics as universal, but for me, there are more ethical forms of slaughter but slaughter itself isn't a bad thing. I think eating an animal ethically should involve some acknowledgment of where the meat on the plate came from. But so too for veggies.

Not a fan of PETA.

Then we'd all eat tofu burgers and there'd be a lot of protests that I'd fully support because I don't think that degree of regulation is healthy. However a gov't campaign about soy protein would be fine by me.

I don't think veganism, as a diet, works for everyone. It takes more effort to get what you need in terms of vitamins and calories. Some people couldn't do that and would live unhealthily. That's the can't. We won't because meat tastes good to us and the force is strong with the lobbyists.
 
I quit eating store bought chicken, turkey, beef, pork in the early 80's....for exactly the factory reasons...

I was a hunter at the time. I've long since quit hunting, but still occasionally eat some bits from what folks bring by...

Still eat fish and with all the factory farming....and depletion of our seas, am about to give that up... For fisherman of the Chesapeake Bay (largest estuary in the US) no more than two servings a month for healthy adults, women and children no more than one serving a month...and some fish they can't eat at all.... right out of our bay.
 
Do you think McD's is cruel to chickens (see the video) ?

McCruelty Hits the Web | NBC Chicago

Are there any ethical issues related to killing chickens ? How about eating them ?

Are you a fan of PETA ?

What if the gov't required that we eat tofu burgers ?

Why can't we all be vegans ?

Wouldn't even look at that film.... I am assuming McD's? Is Macdonalds? Their food is ****. Well, if you want to call that crap food.....

Yes I am a fan of PETA... I freaking love those guys lol! Anyone who seriously cares for the welfare of all animals (excluding the human) Has my utmost respect.... Yes Be it writing petitions... Be it the other scale going ****ing mental and throwing red liquid over people or whatever lol... YES! for the love of god yes! I love them.

A goverment cannot do that. Simple. Is Tofu like soya or Quorn?

Why can't we all be vegans? Because I need a healthy stock of fat people to laugh at. Although..... The only true "hardcore" vegans... Would die of starvation.... You have to eat some form of life right... And they would be classed as "animal life forms" *shrugs*
 
The only true "hardcore" vegans... Would die of starvation.... You have to eat some form of life right... And they would be classed as "animal life forms" *shrugs*

Wrong.....common misconception, you need to cover your essential amino acids and you will be fine. This can be done with beans and other proteins, no animal products needed.
 
The only thing that afaik you can't get from veggie sources is taurine, and at least from what I've read it's not essential. There are other things that're harder to come by from veggie sources though.
 
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