Sex Magik

Discussion in 'Magick' started by Vajradhara, Jul 8, 2004.

  1. Vajradhara

    Vajradhara One of Many

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    Namaste all,


    in the Taoist Alchemical schools view (though i only practice the Northern Complete Reality School, so others may disagree) the sexual praxis that sprang up around the overall alchemical schools was/is considered to be a minor byway and, usually, one ends up missing the point.

    the 18th century alchemical master Liu I-ming in his seminal text, Awakening to the Tao, discusses this very issue in some detail and he explains why this is not the correct understanding of the alchemical texts.

    in essence, his point is that the "twilight" language of the alchemical texts is difficult to dicipher without a proper key. people misunderstood the terms and thus became confused about what the point of the praxis is.

    in the Buddhist Tantric tradition, the actual physical act is rarely practiced. for more information on Buddhist Tantric praxis, please review this thread:
    http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=904
     
  2. Erynn

    Erynn Professional Madwoman

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    This is quite true, but I think a lot of it was in fact Inquisitional creation. So much was extracted from people under torture that most would say anything merely to get the torture to stop.

    Much of the sexual magic of modern Witchcraft has to do with producing bodily fluids for use in spells or the making of charms, and isn't necessarily concerned with an alchemical mixing of fluids in the body.
     
  3. Erynn

    Erynn Professional Madwoman

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    I don't believe there is one Absolute Truth. I don't believe there is one single Reality.


    So what you are suggesting is that unless we see things in absolute terms of black and white, we are wrong. Life rarely seems to work that way.


    In this case, to you, the outcome seems "horrible." To others it is not. (Un)fortunately, we are all able to judge the results of our actions in our own lives when it comes to physical results of health and happiness. What makes me happy may not make you happy. What makes you happy may not make me happy. Intention and action are both necessary.

    And some of them still fight the good fight, but you rarely hear anything about them. It's not "newsworthy."

    It is your perception that all of it is false. Paradoxes can be true. It's pretty obvious you and I will not convince each other here. How can anyone determine Absolute Truth when we are, by our nature, limited? Even science doesn't necessarily provide absolutes -- scientific theory changes constantly with the acquisition of new knowledge, and what people believe as a scientific "article of faith" today may very well be laughed at as the basest ignorance ten years from now.

    Neither Crowley nor Rasputin were particularly decent folk to begin with, and while I have read Crowley, I find his reputation to far exceed his actual accomplishments. I know a lot of decent folk who are doing sexual magic that you refer to as "degenerative." They sure don't look or act like degenerates to me. Homosexuality and bisexuality are not "degenerate," even when people are practicing this in their sexual magic; they are natural states of being. Monogamous marriage for life is a relatively modern invention, which demonstrably did not occur in all times and places throughout history.

    Repetition may convince, but it doesn't always make things so. I suspect we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
     
  4. Chela

    Chela Psychological Janitor

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    But 2+2 is 4.

    The universe is just a machine. Man is just a machine. Everything that exist is under ceratian laws of mechanics. The universe is just a machine we cannot comprehend, a machine that attempts to self realize the creator. Yes, man is just a machine, he is in many respects just a magnet and he can maginitize himself with thoughts of the bar, with drugs, with love, with money... with sex too. And the things one becomes is what is attractited to him. The comdies and dramas of the drunk are exactly because he has created those situations to occur to him...

    Obviously we disagree. But to think that the only thing that is real is perceptions, I don't see how that works in total. How does the universe exist if it is not real? Are you not real, are you nothing more than a thin abstraction of perception?

    Perception is subjectivism (correct me if I am wrong). A subject cannot exist without an object, that is to say, a perception can not exist if there is not something real to percieve. OR, a subject (subjectivism, us, the human mind) cannot exist without an object (objectivism, Him, the creator, the truth). The subject (the human mind/creation itself) emerges from the object (the truth/Sat/Ain) in order to observe the object, with the purpose to eventually become conscious of object. This is the meaning of life: to become conscious of the truth.

    Humans (all of us anyway) cannot see it, once again I agree, but, I do not understand how that justifies anything.

    I agree 100% that the mind can know nothing but its perceptions and senses. But, outside of the mind reigns the Spirit, who is already perfect, and in that, an atom of truth. The Yogi meditates to free himself of the mind and temporarly reunite with the truth. The Buddhist attempts to awaken to this truth in a non-temporal fashion.

    It would not be saying this if I have not directly experienced it, even if it is only the slightest bit. I would not be talking about these matters, sexual magic, sexuality, etc., unless I have lived them.

    When I put myself in my shoes of a few years ago, I would not believe me either. So, like you said, we disagree.
     
  5. Susma Rio Sep

    Susma Rio Sep New Member

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    The facts please.

    First a humor aside:

    Vajradhara says:
    "alchemical master Liu I-ming in his seminal text"

    [/b]. . . seminal text . . . [/b] Do we have here a pun intended or not intended or a Freudian slip? Hehehehe.


    Vajradhara to my observation would seem to be the most knowledgeable about Buddhism, Tantrism, Taoism, and affined systems, in this forum.

    Now, I would like to learn from Vajradhara, from his vast readings and also presumably close encounters with practices of sex magik, was there and is there still physical sex, that is: contact and stimulation between body organs or parts for sensual excitation leading to orgasm or close to orgasm, between people of opposite or similar sexes, in Buddhism or Tantrism, also in Taoism?

    And is the ideology of such sex magik practices and even routines founded upon the idea of sex as a way and means for enlightenment of whatever kind the participants intend to achieve, or even to arrive easier or more certainly or quicker at Nirvana?

    From my own limited reading, I am certain that such practices exist and for such esoteric purpose of arriving at enlightenment and even Nirvana.

    And my comment is this: Buddhist and Tantric theoreticians have succeeded in blending the utmost of sensuality with the apex of spirituality, so that the first is a way and means to the second.

    What a bonanza!

    Susma Rio Sep
     
  6. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    Re: The facts please.

    Reading this thread about Sex Magick, and people's use of sex for magickal purposes - I hope I am not the only person left feeling somewhat sexually dull. :)
     
  7. Chela

    Chela Psychological Janitor

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    Lets break down Alchemy: "AL" (Allah) or "El" (Elohim), meaing God. Chem or Khem is from from the Greek "kimia," meaning to fuse together. Khem is also the acient land of Egypt (holy land).

    Therefore, Alchemy, "To fuse with God" means the same exact thing as Yoga (yug - union) and Religion (religare - to reunite).

    So those people who say otherwise, I think they do not know what they are talking about.

    I insist on reading the scriptures. They have wisdom beyond our ability to comprehend.

    In the Pistis Sophia, Jesus says:

    (comments in paraenthesis)

    "CHAPTER 147
    Of the chastisement of the homosexual

    "Bartholomew said: "A man who hath intercourse with a male what is his vengeance?"

    "Jesus said: "The measure of the man who hath intercourse with males and of the man with whom he lieth, is the same as that of the blasphemer.
    "When then the time is completed through the sphere (of Malkuth, Earth), the receivers of Yaldabaoth (the Verb, Logos) come after their soul, and he with his forty-and-nine (seven times seven, the theosophical septenary) demons taketh vengeance on it eleven years (Arcanum 11: Persuasion).

    "Thereafter they carry it to the fire-rivers and seething pitch-seas, which are full of demons with pigs' faces (related with the demons Jesus cast out of the possesed whose name is Legion, into pigs, who then cast themselves in to water of life). They eat into them and take vengeance on them in the fire-rivers another eleven years (11 + 11 = 22, which is which is the Alpha and the Omega, in this case refering to the Omega, 2 + 2 = 4, the Tetragrammaton. Meaning they will return to God, but without a self realized soul).

    "Thereafter they carry them into the outer darkness until the day of judgment (karma) when the great darkness is judged; and then they (the failed souls) will be dissolved and destroyed (to set the spirit free)."

    "Of the chastisement of a foul act of sorcery

    "Thomas said: "We have heard that there are some on the earth who take the male seed and the female monthly blood, and make it into a lentil porridge and eat it, saying: 'We have faith in Esau and Jacob.' Is this then seemly or not?"

    "Jesus was wroth with the world in that hour and said unto Thomas:

    "Amen, I say: This sin is more heinous than all sins and iniquities. Such men will straight way be taken into the outer darkness and not be cast back anew into the sphere (will not 'reincarnate' on earth again), but they shall perish, be destroyed in the outer darkness in a region where there is neither pity nor light, but howling and grinding of teeth. And all the souls which shall be brought into the outer darkness, will not be cast back anew, but will be destroyed and dissolved."

    I am confused as to what you are referenced about safety.
     
  8. Erynn

    Erynn Professional Madwoman

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    Unless you're using a different system than the standard base 10. In binary, that equation can't even exist. Just ask any mathemetician ;)

    I was under the impression that this view of the universe went out with the Victorians? From what I understand, Einstein's theories, and the developments of subatomic particle physics, quantum physics, chaos theory, and string theory have left science in one of those "there are more things than are dreamt of..." states of understanding. I mean, string theory postulates multiple universes, wherein the rules may be different in each.

    So you're suggesting that non-monogamous, non-heterosexual people practicing sexual magic are like drunks?

    Far greater philosophers than I have struggled with this question in East and West for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

    But we are able to perceive things that are "not real" according to common wisdom -- dreams, the images of vision, and such like.

    Would it surprise you if I said that my experience of the universe is different? That I have experienced a multiplicity of deities, a multiplicity of universes that seem parallel and not quite like this one, that I believe that dream in many cases has as much reality as the computer I touch as I'm typing here?

    Why is your experience more valid than mine or other people's? I think you have taken your personal revelatory experience and are applying it as though it governs every other thing in existence. Leg and trunk of the elephant and all that. I'm not even sure human beings are capable of perceiving the entire elephant, to be honest. And for all we know, there may be more out there than just the elephant -- jaguars and palm trees and oceans and clouds...

    For you, what you have experienced is absolute and monistic. My experience, my mystical perception, is something that I interpret as personal and multivalent. In the universe I perceive and live in, sexual magic is not dependent upon gender or the legalism of heterosexual monogamy to function. Some power certainly resides in bodily fluids -- it is part of the principle of sympathetic magic that a thing connected to a person (hair, nail clippings, etc) shares energy with that person and can be used as a focus for magic being done to or for that person. This is one of the principles that underlies the use of blood in magic as well, and why in some Pagan traditions a drop of blood is taken from the postulant at initiation, to link their energies with those of the group.

    But it is also a part of the spiritual worldview that I share with many others, that the triadic is more stable and more active than the dualistic -- where duality is a static balance, triplicity is balance in motion. There are three "cauldrons" with in the body wherein energy is gathered and processed in both a spiritual and magical sense. Energies may be physical, emotional, or spiritual, and sexuality can be expressed on all three of those basic levels. Strict dualism isn't really a principle in our system. Where we acknowledge both day and night, the true time of power for us is in the liminal state of dawn/dusk -- the places between -- and so it can be argued that sexuality falls into this liminal between place, where gender (the "night" and "day" of male and female bodies at least -- the metaphor doesn't extend to intersexed or otherwise hermaphroditic bodies ) is irrelevant because what is important is what takes place in the interstices, in the ambiguous and the transgendered, in the transcendence of duality.

    In the path I practice, deity is frequently found in triadic forms, or in triplicities. Deities may be three sisters or three brothers, sometimes of the same name. It may arrange itself in triads of two Gods and a Goddess, or two Goddesses and a God. Things and beings are often found in nines, as well, a tripling of the triplicity, making it more powerful and more sacred. When these are sacred models, sexuality and the potentials of sexual magic expand beyond the bounds of strict heterosexual and monistic frameworks.

    Not everyone in this world, or even in this forum, is monotheistic. Not all of us live by the same set of assumptions or the same guiding texts. Not all of our religions regard homosexuality (or eating shellfish and wearing a cotton/linen blend, for that matter) as an abomination, or non-monogamy as a sin.

    The framework you have chosen to work within, and the worldview that you accept as correct is not the same as mine. To me, the "truths" of monotheistic religions are no more than another opinion on the nature of reality. I regard their texts as interesting and sometimes useful, but not reflective of absolute reality. It's no more to me than any other text on philosophy, and by the limited nature of human perception, it cannot reflect any "absolute" reality or truth, merely some corner of it. Each text is the preserved, and often mistranslated record of the opinion of other human beings. By the nature of human experience, there can be no genuine "objectivity," for everything is processed through our senses, and our senses can be fooled -- or expanded.

    Physics tells us that "solid matter" conists almost entirely of the space between atoms and subatomic particles. This is supposedly "objective" reality. Yet the human hand still generally stops when it impacts a wall, and that's another form of "objective" reality. When we get to the level of subatomic particles, we are dealing with far more than just positively and negatively charged protons and neutrons. We deal with things like light appearing to be both a particle and a wave, with particles that have "charm" and "strangeness," with the idea that everything that is might be one subatomic particle speeding around the entire universe and transcending time and space in the most astonishing and incomprehensible manner.

    In the face of such things, I don't dare declare an Absolute Truth that applies to every person in every time and every place. In a worldview like this, there is room for the realities of the intersexed, of the hermaphroditic, of the androgynous. There is room for homoeroticism and pansexuality in this liminal twilight.

    And when approached lovingly and responsibly and with regard and respect for all involved, it's all good.

    Or, as Robert Heinlein once said about one size fits all religion, "it's like socks on a rooster. It looks silly and annoys the rooster."
     
  9. Chela

    Chela Psychological Janitor

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    Re: The facts please.

    Vajradhara is the one who holds the thunderbolt. Vajradhara is a phallic reference.

    Vajradhara (the one who is talking on this board): I disagree that this tantric reference is only something to meditate on.

    Sexual magic is called the Great Magical Secret by Elphas Levi and by every occultist and estoteric master because it was never taught in public. For this reason, most scholars have no idea what they are talking about. Sexual magic is the highest synthesis of the Path of the Middle way because one does not induldge their desire (because orgasm is never reached), but nor does one avert from it. That is the living, breathing, Middle Way of Life. That is the true meaning of chastity (never fornicating the sexual force), which is different than celibacy (averting form the sexual force).

    The Path of the Middle way is seen in the acient glyph known as the Tree of Life (Kabbalah), which has three pillars. The left is the Pillar of Severity, the right is the Pillar of Mercy, and the center is the Pillar of Equilibrium. This pillar contains, most notably, Yesod (9th Sphere: Thou Shalt Not Covet Thy Neighbor's Wife), Tiphereth, (6th Sphere: Thou Shalt Not Fornicate), Daath (Tantra or the Tree of Knowledge (Gnosis), the opposite triangles converging, the Star of David is tantric) which is, of course, the last step to reach the supernal.

    (The Tree of Life is absolutely related with the 10 Commandments because Moses was a master Kabbalahist.)

    I am interested, however: What did Liu I-ming say the proper key was?

    Tantra is the thread, related with the Loom of God (The Weaver), Arcanum 24, which is 2+4=6, the Lovers (the choice between the Virgin and the Harlot).

    This is the very first paragraph of the Pistis Sophia:
    But it happened that after Jesus had risen from the dead he spent eleven (Persuasion) years speaking with his disciples. And he taught them only as far as the places of the first ordinance and as far as the places of the First Mystery, which is within the veil which is within the first ordinance, which is the 24th mystery outside and below, these which are in the second space of the First Mystery, which is before all mysteries the Father in the form of a dove (Holy Spirit, Sexuality) . And Jesus said to his disciples : "I have come forth from that First Mystery which is the last mystery, namely the 24th"..

    May everyone be joyful and triumphant!
     
  10. Erynn

    Erynn Professional Madwoman

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    Actually, my dictionary breaks it down to al (the definitive "the" in English) and kimiya, chemsitry, from the Late Greek khemeia or khumeia, or perhas from the Greek Khemia, Egypt.

    This seems to be a personal interpretation with a more mystical slant than the one in my dictionary. Even if we take it to mean something akin to "the blending" -- that can just as easily refer to chemical processes without any particular religious or sexual undertones. I will acknowledge that alchemy appears to have gotten its start as some sort of magical process.

    You mean like Isaac Newton, of the laws of thermodynamics fame, who was an alchemist?

    But whose scriptures, and by what criteria are they to be judged valid? Are they holy and true because they say they are? If so, isn't that rather self-referential and arbitrary? What about all the other, contradictory scriptures, that also claim they're holy and true?

    I fail to see wisdom in hatred and the eternal damnation of homosexuals, though I'll agree I can't comprehend it. This isn't a philosophy I can ascribe to in any good conscience at all.

    For some of us, sexual magic does not include the mixing of bodily fluids within the body at all, and safer sex practices such as the use of condoms is done to help prevent the potential spread of disease. There doesn't seem to be any effect on the efficacy of the magical work because of it.
     
  11. Susma Rio Sep

    Susma Rio Sep New Member

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    Me too, I am dull.

    Brian, don't feel so left out. We are two, not into sex magik.

    Whatever sex magik however that people go into for enlightenment and all the way to Nirvana, I still from a sense of civic concern want to advise them most sincerely to beware of sexually transmitted diseases and unwanted pregnancy, and also don't share the unsavory parasitic fauna and flora of the pubic and anal regions among themselves.

    Better still, have a very stringent medical check-up and obtain a certificate of good sexual health from a professionally licensed doctor, for yourself, and demand it from your partners, before you do go into sex magik.

    And I am still curious to have access to police blotters and records of government health offices respectively on sex offenses and the sexual epidemiology of religious people like monks, nuns, priests, etc., in ethnic groups which practice sex magik.

    It would be enlightening to compare the incidence of sexual diseases in Tibet before and after takeover by the communist regime of China.

    Pachomius2000
     
  12. Chela

    Chela Psychological Janitor

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    Well, we certainly filled up this thread quickly.

    Right, but then 10 + 10 = 11. Or glab + glab = shamb, in glabsham base, but they are referring to the same things. If I have glab apples and and glab apple, I'll have a tota of shamb apples, in glabsham base, 11 in binary and 2 in decimal.

    You mistundertsood me because I am talking in favor of Einstein.

    String theory, is just that, theory.. We are not 100% sure on that, but yes, there can be a machine that exists within multiple dimensions, according string theory, it is 11 dimensions. Occording thesophy, it is seven dimensions.

    No. I am just saying that we attract what we are becase we become magintized by those things we are involved with. This is both good and bad. We have already concluded we disagree with what is good and bad, what I am saying here is that, yes, indeed, the body acts like a magent. Not a physical magnet, a psychological magnet.

    But dreams are real. The Astral World is real. In the Astral World, what we think (dream) of becomes a reality in front of our eyes. We daydream all the time, but because we are in our physical bodies, we cannot see the realities of our dreams, during the day. At night, we become lost in them. We never question if we are dreaming or awake becase we always assume we are awake, even when we are dreamign. The is the unawakened consciousness.

    Not at all! I am sorry for being so hard to understand. Obviously, I have already said that dreams are real. So we are on the same page, there at least.

    I can refer to a scripture or other acient text of wisdom for everything I say, but then people think I am just reapeating what I have memorized. Many times, I choose to speak from my own voice, even if it is no more valid than anyone else, as you have correctly pointed out.

    I am not monistic. A monistic religion is a dead religion because there is nothing for it to procreate with. A religion without Gods and Goddesses is retardant of its own proliferation.

    Modern Christianity merely converted them Virgins or Angels, etc.. and this well known.

    Neither am I a dualist, although I perfectly understand why this has been incorrectly assumed.

    The Matrimony is a trimony between three: Man, Woman, and God. That is a Trimony.

    3 Binah, Holy Spirit, Jeh-Hova, Father-Mother, Sex (reconciliation of opposites)
    3+3=6 Tiphereth, The Son of (At)Man (sexual)
    3+3+3 = 9, Yesod, Foundation (Everything that is created has its orgin in sex)

    But I did not say otherwise.

    With todays degenerate mind there can be no objectivity. The mind should be a perfectly clean mirror, so it can perfectly reflect Tao, but through time and lovely evolution we have made our mirror very dusty. The truth still does exist and it is still attainable, as it is stated in every religion, because that is what a religion is: to reunite with the truth.

    Physics is a great science, but, it is still a science, so by definition it is incomplete. Theories are displayed to us like women's fashion, "Look at the new theory! It is amazing!"

    We should not fall into the danger of confusing science and what is regarded as "facts" with the Truth, because most of our facts are nothing more than the three dimensional aspect of something larger. Every time a new theory theory comes out, it connects more dots, but it finds more dots too...

    "Love is law, but conscious love."

    Ignorance is the root of all error, even ignorant love.

    Conscious love is just that: Wisdom + Compassion, Will + Imagination, Man + Woman, this is Tantra.

    Taoism and Buddhism tells us again and again that one without the other leads to error.

    The Vedas, the Bible, the Upishands, the Koran, the Zend Avesta, the Book of the Dead, the works of Homer, the Sibylline Books, the Edda, the wisdom of the Native Americans, the "Gnostic" works, the Dao De Jing, I Ching, the writings of the Kabbalah, the cult of Mithra, the dancing Dirvisha, the Greek, Roman and Egyptian writings...

    The very fact that the words of the scriptures or my words is seen as hatred (I am not talking about the ignorant Christians, because they do hate) is where you should be begin if you wish to understand. If it is pointed to me, then I must say, I never said I hated anyone. In fact, I deeply love everyone.

    Personally, I would not waste my time talking about something I hate. Rather, I would meditate on that fact until I found its source..

    Honestly, I whole hardedly disagree. I found it absolutely retardant. Contraceptives are nothing more than an excuse to justify many things, and I was completely mistaken to have ever used them.

    I thought you never praticed?
     
  13. Chela

    Chela Psychological Janitor

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    I made mistakes in my last post.

    It is actually 4 in decimal.

    I was thinking of monotheistic, forgive my ignorance.

    As far as monism goes, that term fits, if it is meaning that there is only one truth, yes.
     
  14. Chela

    Chela Psychological Janitor

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    Re: Me too, I am dull.

    Really, this is only the most dense and obvious reason why sexual magic should only be conducted between a man and wife.

    This is also why we should not have sex at all until we are married (however "unrealistic" or "antiquated" that thought may appear). Any sexual act that carries dangerous side effects along with it is an obvious warning flag, in my opinion.

    Why does nature need to be altered (contraceptives) in order to work with it (sex)? It makes no sense. Conraceptives only make sense to our desire to fornicate, that is the truth, is it not? We do not need "protection" from sex, unless it is dirty or dangerous sex, that is a fact. Sexual magic that is dirty or dangerous is called Black Magic for this fact.

    White Sexual Magic requires no protection because it is 100% free of danger. I make a personal attestment to this, even if many people disagree with me.

    Is not the body a temple for the soul? Indeed it is. And, is not the door into the soul found through sex (sensual love)? Why then, do we open it up to our animal desires and insatiable passions? Do we not know that the fire of hell is our own burning passion? Do we not know that, as a candle burns itself out of wax, so do our burning passions burn us out of soul?
     
  15. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    Re: Me too, I am dull.

    Contraceptive allows the most initimate physical expression of love - but without the reproductive consequences of union of two fertile bodies.

    At all levels of our lives we usually turn to some aspect of technology to help enhance some aspect of life - from use of automated transport to move over distances, to telecommunciations to pass messages on faster.

    Somehow I would have personal difficulty understanding the reasoning aganist contraception unless in the context of "all technology is wrong".
     
  16. Susma Rio Sep

    Susma Rio Sep New Member

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    My kind of sex is licensed.

    Chela, I agree with a lot of your contention. But not with the one about contraception.

    Sex that is licensed and in accordance with traditional Chritian morality, is good between me and my legally sanctioned partner: no need absolutely to be white or black magic sex.

    On the other hand, whatever Christian morality there be from traditions, my own mindset is more founded upon concerns for health and freedom from avoidable complications in life. Let's not make life more complicated and convoluted than we can easily avoid, namely, by as I said sticking to licensed sex.

    Pachomius2000
     
  17. Chela

    Chela Psychological Janitor

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    Re: Me too, I am dull.

    Generally, I think there is more bad technology than good. But I am not against technology in itself. This also doesn't mean that I refuse to use it, because now society depends on these things, which means each unit of society must depend on it as well...

    Society creates problems through bad technology and makes more bad technology to fix them, which creates more problems.. This is why we "need" most of this stuff.

    Contraceptives are unneeded in a society that contains willpower (obviously, the world today has no willpower at all). Foremost, we need to find someone to love before finding some to lust (no sex unless the two will be together for that entire life, for karmic reasons, of which physical health is a part of). Secondly, the man should not spill 100s of millions of sperm within the carnal act. If a baby is not wanted, then to do spill the semen. If a baby is not wanted and the semen is not spilt and by some rare chance pregnancy occurs, then that is a choice baby, indeed. That truly is the will of god.

    Simply, if a baby is not wanted then one should not have sex. But it is better to make love than to repress it. So, make love with your spouse but do not reach spasm. Not just once, not just for a week, but everyday, for the rest of your life. That is truly venerating the Sabbath! Make love for hours, but intelligently withdraw from coitus before spasm. That is the key. Then you will know what willpower is. Then you will know what it means to be a Master over your mind, your emotion and your body. Until then, one is a fool to talk about willpower. Quickly, one realizes that having sex without reaching spasm is the most normal thing one can do -- even if it is the most difficult thing one can do. It helps makes one physically strong, emotionally stable and mentally sharp.

    "Semen retention is very valuable for both spiritual and material health. Semen retained in the body goes upwards to nourish the brain, rendering the body robust, and the memory and intellect incredibly sharp. Confidence, determination, optimism, willpower, fixed intelligence, noble character, photographic memory and shining good health are all fruits of conserved semen... In the beginning, Brahma created four great sages named Sanaka, Sananda, Sanatana and Sanat-kumara. All of them were unwilling to adopt materialistic activities because they were highly elevated due to their semen’s flowing upwards." – Mahamantra Das Brahmacari

    Getting back on track...

    Sex is many things... but at least we can understand that it has no less than two functions: one of either spiritual paroxysm (sex magic) or physical paroxysm (orgasm), and one of procreation. To separate one or the other is artificial sex. Those who have sex simply to procreate ("I want a child") and those who have sex simply for desire ("I don't want a child but still want to have sex") believe that they have the right to muzzle or alter the perfect machine that created them: Mother Nature. This is the technology we should be against. To alter mother nature is to alter Beethoven’s works... it is stupid because they are already perfect.

    Instead of altering perfection let us alter imperfection. Instead of altering Mother Nature let us alter our own psychology. Let us understand what a radical transformation of the self is, and what it entails. Let us find and alter our own soul (psyche - psychology) through inner self reflection upon the serene lake of the mind (meditation). There is no doubt that this method which I am recommending and which every hierophant has as well, is a billion times more difficult, but it is the only method that truly works.

    To debate upon whether or not artificial sex is moral I care not to unfold into another polemic. I already know that it is wrong -- even if that statement sounds a bit dogmatic.

    (I wish to make it clear that in many ways I am a hypocrite, because the wonderful woman I am with, I found through drinking and lust and fornication and contraceptives.... It was only later that I consciously choose to begin to remove the errors of my psychology.)
     
  18. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    Re: Me too, I am dull.

    Chela, what you are advocating is effectively sexual repression - if you advocate that couples partake of penetration and nothing else, then you have woefully misunderstood the sex act as an act of love and partnership.

    Sex in this regard isn't about Willpower - but about embracing your natural human and spiritual levels of expression.

    To deny yourself of that, excepting with the express ergard of making babies is - in my personal opinion - a sign of nothing more than heavy sexual repression - the repression of the natural spiritual outlets of expression.

    There is nothing at all natural about trying to avoid the spillage of the "seed" because the body ensures that it will naturally ejaculate, whether forced or through involuntary "emissions".

    And I don't see any validated claim that the retention of semen provides any kind of "nourishment for the brain" unless someone already feels strongly that release of semen somehow dooms the self - a psychological issue, not a physical issue.

    I did a stint of sexual celibacy a while back - I came out realising that complete sexual repression is completely unnatural and serves little purpose in itself.
     
  19. Chela

    Chela Psychological Janitor

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    What I am advocating is sexual transmutation. This is different than repression. This is different than hedonism. This is different than natural expression.

    Take it for what it is worth, and decide whether ass or man shall be master. He alone can possess truly the pleasure of love who has conquered the love of pleasure. To be able and to forbear is to be twice able.- Eliphas Levi

    The true human, which an Angel or a Buddha, does not fornicate. Only animals fornicate. For the man to loose 250 million sperm, when only one sperm is necessary to procreate, is absolutely fornication.

    The only thing that makes us different than animals is our intellect. Only the human is able to consciously sacrifice. I am not saying that it is easy, nor is it not a huge sacrifice, it is indeed a large one.

    I am little confused what you are saying. If you saying that I said that sex is for making children only, then I have been misunderstood.

    Those who have sex only for procreation are just as wrong as those who have sex just for pleasure. They are too sides of the same coin, they are both attempting to muzzle sex into what their own concepts and desires.

    Honestly, how can we say “Sex is not just for procreation, that is wrong, but it is ok that sex is just for pleasure and natural expression because we invented technology with our amazing intellect that allows it to be.”

    Just because something allows it to be doesn’t mean it should be. Contraceptives, I will say this once again because this point was missed previously, are not natural. Contraceptives are artificial, so, how is using contraceptives a natural expression?

    Those who do not transmute the sexual energy will indeed have many nocturnal emissions. I am awaiting the day that a Priest or Nun will make this fact known publicly. However, one who transmutes the sexual energy will not have nocturnal emissions. This is a fact.

    So to state that the body will always remove this energy is incorrect. If it is successfully transmuted, either through sexual magic or through pranayama (for singles), then it will not be spilled during sleep. But we must transmute it, or it will absolutely be shamefully wasted in our dreams.

    Well, I am sure that no amount of logic or discussion will make this theory I am talking about a living reality. If one wishes to practice and prove the living reality to themselves, let it be so. If one wishes to remain in theory, then not even God can show them the truth.

    But maybe this will help: Let us talk about Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve represent many things, one of which is the Masculine (Adam) and Feminine (Eve) energies within our body. Adam is the Intellect. The Intellect is a tool for the Spirit when it does good and a tool of the Demon when it does bad. When Adam is in the Garden he is doing the will of the spirit. Eve is the aspect of sexuality, because it is when her that everything is born and dies. This is why Eve picks the forbidden fruit, because eating it represents fornication, which is within the sphere of Eve.

    When they leave the Garden, they have Cain. Cain is a worker of the "Earth" which is Malkuth, meaning, Cain only works with is five physical senses. Abel was a worker of sheep, which of course has to do with spirituality when referenced in the Bible. Cain offered the fruit of the ground to God. That is to say, the same fruit that Eve ate, Cain was offering to God. Abel offered the fat of his sheep, and God gave respect to that of Abel, but not of Cain.

    So Cain, the Animal Intellect that grows stronger through eating the fruit of the ground, kills Abel, the Spirit because he became weak because the Intellect has become so strong that it overpowers the Spirit.

    Today, the intellect is very strong, but it is not Wisdom. Intellect is false logic that appears from only looking at the fruits of the earth, because the intellect cannot see the spirit: it is an ignorant intellect.

    4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

    4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

    4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

    4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

    4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

    4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

    4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

    4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. (King James Bible, Genesis)


    The fruits of the earth is the sexual seed within man and woman. If you eat and enjoy these fruits (orgasm) and offer that to God you will kill your spirit. This is what the Bible says.

    Strength in the Bible means sexual strength. This why we need to love with all our hear, our soul, our mind and our strength. This is why Samson when Samson lost his strength he became a fornicator.

    So, in 4:11, when we till the ground (waste the fruit) we will loose our strength, and become vagabonds of the intellect.

    12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. (King James Bible, Mark)

    Delilah puts Samson to sleep and there she removes the strength of Hercules (Samson). Delilah is Eve, but in this story it is the sinister Eve, the Eve outside of God's Paradise. Samson falls psychologically asleep under the temptations of Delilah and then Samson looses his strength. He strength is within his sex, which is represented by the uncut hair.

    If these quotes help, then let it be. But if not, then I fear that no amount of words can.

    Correct. Celibacy is fornication because it is wasting the sexual energy in the same way that spilling the 250 million seeds is wasting the energy. As you said yourself, the body will remove itself of its unused energy through nocturnal emissions.

    Sexual transmutation is something different, and this can be verified by everyone reading if they wish to.
     
  20. Susma Rio Sep

    Susma Rio Sep New Member

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    Almost Roman Catholic sexual morality

    The way I see it, Brian represents what I might consider to be the liberal humanistic approach to sex in men and women.

    Chela represents almost the totality of Roman Catholic approach to sex among men and women, except that very subtle part about doing coitus but without ejaculation if both partners, we may assume, are agreed about preventing pregnancy.

    From what I know about Roman Catholic sexual morality, and I am a postgraduate Catholic -- I learned my Catholicism from within the family, home, and community, from Catholic nursery school and all the way to postgraduate studies, and from long continuous years of finding out what is morally right and morally wrong in my personal life, by consulting the most authoritative sources of Catholic morality in written sources, and in living people representing the official magisterium, namely:

    if you get started with coitus, you have to get it completed all the way to consummation while still in coitus, and with of course the ejaculation of the semen into the vaginal recesses of the female partner; otherwise it is at least unworthy if not sinful however slight be the degree of sinfulness.

    I don't believe in that kind of a sex ideology since becoming a postgraduate Catholic. I have come to regard contraception as perfectly all right.

    But for that exception consisting in acceptance of contraception, my view of sex now is still quite Catholic, for my own personal life I do sex exclusively with my lawfully married wife; and in my own home where I am the teacher and the supervisor, for my two kids, a girl and a boy, I expect them to embrace my sex ideology as well. And I think I have been successful.

    When the children are on their own, then they can adopt the liberal humanism of Brian, and I will not have any objections except to remind them abot hygiene, sanitation, and avoiding unwanted pregnancy with safe and effective contraception.


    Coming back to Brian and Chela, I think, in my assessment as an intelligent and practical person, that Brian is in the right track; Chela does not seem to have her feet on terra firma, owing to her adherence to esoteric speculations which I presume has no basis in scientific human sexology and in medicine.

    Pachomius2000
     

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