The war on vitamins.

shawn

shawn

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In our world we see officials proclaim to the public the evils of "drug" use, who then wage wars against the users of a variety of compounds.
This has gone on for years, until most people have accepted it as being sensible.
Yet even many police have turned against it and speak out against it as causing more harm than it alleviates.
This is the backdrop.
Now we see that the really big "drug" cartels, the pharmaceutical corporations, have taken their positions of power and their money and they are waging a war against vitamins and supplements.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Imagine a world where safe nutritional supplements are locked away like narcotics.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Where it's even illegal to buy vitamin pills without first begging for a doctor's prescription.
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This isn't paranoia...
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It's already happening
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]On March 13, 2002, (which is already 8 years ago) the European Parliament passed a "Directive on Dietary Supplements."
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Under this directive, which has since become law, all vitamins and minerals are classified as drugs. (say what???)
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Except for multivitamins of trivial potency, all other supplements may soon be banned from over-the-counter sale.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This isn't just an inconvenience, it's premeditated murder.

And yes, I understand that many vitamins[/FONT] are potentially harmful (so use your intelligence when taking anything), yet this whole scenario is one where the baby is being thrown out with the bath water.
In Canada, there was a law passed just this past year which now prevents people from purchasing an amino acid called Carnatine without a doctors prescription.
This is not a harmful compound (it is an amino acid)and it has many beneficial uses.

So ends the days of doing things for yourself.
Now you will need to ask permission first....which may be denied.
Most likely they will allow you to take a much more harmful p-harm-aceutical product which has side-effects you do not want, or are worse than the condition they allege to treat.

Now what the hell is all that about?:mad:
And why are people so complacent and stupid about these kinds of events?
 
Why do people let nanny states exist in the first place? Why do people tolerate business subsidies, socialism and welfare programs? They're all the same thing--greater and greater state control.
 
Dogbrain said:
Why do people let nanny states exist in the first place? Why do people tolerate business subsidies, socialism and welfare programs? They're all the same thing--greater and greater state control.
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My guess is that people for the most part truly are stupid and complacent.
How discouraging.:(
 
I am a bit torn about social systems vs. other democratically based economic systems. Capitalistic systems can be abused, too. Looking at the USA there have been periods of time where corporations were able to own people, like the coal companies for example. A socialist system is an attempt to stop things like that from happening, so there is an admirable reason for trying to implement one.

I think the FDA in the US is far more powerful than it ought to be, although it is part of a successful system. Europe has a chance to build a better system.
 
Now we see that the really big "drug" cartels, the pharmaceutical corporations, have taken their positions of power and their money and they are waging a war against vitamins and supplements.
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dude. they are the SAME INDUSTRY. the vitamin and supplement industry is a subsector of "big pharma". now, if you want to have a go at the way that both do their trials and market their pills, then by all means, go ahead. but to portray the preventative pill-peddlers as any different from the curative pill-peddlers is quite simply at odds with reality. i really, strongly, suggest you read ben goldacre's book "bad science" which actually looks at the misrepresentation of science for commercial purposes, combined with its systematic misrepresentation by the media. it's a hoot, but a scary one too.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
bananabrain said:
dude. they are the SAME INDUSTRY. the vitamin and supplement industry is a subsector of "big pharma". now, if you want to have a go at the way that both do their trials and market their pills, then by all means, go ahead. but to portray the preventative pill-peddlers as any different from the curative pill-peddlers is quite simply at odds with reality. i really, strongly, suggest you read ben goldacre's book "bad science" which actually looks at the misrepresentation of science for commercial purposes, combined with its systematic misrepresentation by the media. it's a hoot, but a scary one too.

b'shalom

bananabrain
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They are not the same industry.
To classify a vitamin C extract made from say rose hips as a drug which is needing a prescription, and requiring the manufacturers to run it through multi-million dollar trials like a pharmaceutical product is truly ludicrous.
This is the issue I am talking about.
The fact that your freedom to self medicate based on your own research is being removed and now you need a doctors permission (which may be denied) to do what you already know works for you is criminal.
 
bhaktajan said:
The Controversy:

Codex Alimentarius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also Refer to Gary Null Phd the american natural food/medicine advocate.
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Gary Null is a pretty good character, used to catch him on the radio all the time, seen him speak a few times...a lot of work he puts into his health..

Folks been screaming, spamming CODEX for years and yes in Europe it has taken some hold...I don't live over there so don't know all the ramifications, but do know many folks who when in the US buy vitamins for all their neighbors. They have like traveling co-ops, so everyone keeps supplied.

What is it like in England?

I do know that Canada has some stricter regulations than the US. The company I work with cannot ship literature with the supplements...they have to shipped separately.

Nanny state issues is right. Seat belts, helmets, tanning beds...its getting so you aren't allowed to kill yourself....or heal yourself.
 
wil said:
I do know that Canada has some stricter regulations than the US. The company I work with cannot ship literature with the supplements...they have to shipped separately.

Nanny state issues is right. Seat belts, helmets, tanning beds...its getting so you aren't allowed to kill yourself....or heal yourself.
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That is indeed the problem.
So what can be done?
 
shawn said:
and requiring the manufacturers to run it through multi-million dollar trials like a pharmaceutical product is truly ludicrous.
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Surely that is the whole point of this ... at the moment vit's are inexpensive and sales over the past couple of decades havre soured. The pharmaceutical companies want that money and by making them prescription drugs they can charge a fortune for them.

or am I just a cynic??!! :D

and it's already illegal to kill yourself in the UK
 
That is why something like cannabis is illegal.
Many people who are sick use it and it has proven benefit, but they always throw the recreational side into every-ones faces and use that to say that sick people shouldn't be allowed to use it so use our crappy medicine instead which gives you side-effects and will deplete your savings.
That is criminal and it is done by the law makers and doctors and enforced by the police.
Things like that only make sense to those with no critical thinking skills.
 
Yes that one always astounds me, why can't doctors prescribe cannabis for people who's medical conditions could be eased by it's use? Strange society we have created, withholding drugs from the seriously ill and taking people to court for not giving drugs to animals. That's politics for ya!
 
Dream said:
A socialist system is an attempt to stop things like that from happening, so there is an admirable reason for trying to implement one.
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The same claims were used to implement the USSR, the PRC, and North Korea--and how did their human rights records turn out? The more control the government has, the more it will be abused. The natural conclusion to a nanny state is a tyranny, but a tyranny worse than any other kind.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. "
 
shawn said:
They are not the same industry.
To classify a vitamin C extract made from say rose hips as a drug which is needing a prescription, and requiring the manufacturers to run it through multi-million dollar trials like a pharmaceutical product is truly ludicrous.
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And that is not what Bananabrain is talking about, either. He is talking about the moneyed interests that control all of this stuff--same people, same holding companies, same old, same old.
 
What bemuses me is that people cry out unto the heavens for government to intervene after some quack or another has advised people to their own deaths with "vitamin cures" and other "alternative medicine". Then, if government intervenes, people cry out unto the heavens about government interference.
 
Dogbrain said:
What bemuses me is that people cry out unto the heavens for government to intervene after some quack or another has advised people to their own deaths with "vitamin cures" and other "alternative medicine". Then, if government intervenes, people cry out unto the heavens about government interference.
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This is a dramatic oversimplification of the picture.
The allopathic side of medicine, has for over 60 yrs, been highly antagonistic towards anything which will replace the need for their expensive products.
They are a business and their business thrives of sick people and disease.
So if people were healthier all around this would reduce their profitability.
So it is not much of a stretch to see that they have a vested interest in insuring the propagation of sickness.
Then there is the mountain of data to back this idea up.

There are, to be sure, many allopathic physicians who are caring and compassionate human beings who are not zealots for their school of medicine, but rather promote whatever is the best for the job.
But that is only a segment of the bigger picture.

People need to read more than the headlines.....read the rest of the story......be informed, not just propagandized and thus manipulated.
 
The allopathic side of medicine, has for over 60 yrs, been highly antagonistic towards anything which will replace the need for their expensive products.
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and the so-called "complementary and alternative medicine" industry is similarly antagonistic towards anything which asks for evidence that its products actually do anything - i'm not letting the "allopathic" side off, they have much to answer for, but by your logic, dentists, for example, have a vested interest in promoting poor dental health, just as the police have a vested interest in preserving crime.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
bananabrain said:
and the so-called "complementary and alternative medicine" industry is similarly antagonistic towards anything which asks for evidence that its products actually do anything - i'm not letting the "allopathic" side off, they have much to answer for, but by your logic, dentists, for example, have a vested interest in promoting poor dental health, just as the police have a vested interest in preserving crime.

b'shalom

bananabrain
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If the shoe fits.........
If it quacks like a duck.......
ETC.

This seems to be true across the board.

I don't say that the alternative medicine industry is without its faults as well.
It certainly has them, but that does not negate the benefit.
Just like the fact that despite the bad they do, the allopathic medicine industry also has many benefits as well.
I am being reasonable in this regard so why do I get such reactionary responses which are extreme one way or another?
 
People still cry out to the heavens to be "protected" against quacks and then cry out to the heavens because government is "interfering" in their "free choice".

Modern society, the era of eternal adolescence.
 
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