What's the beef with homosexuality?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by pghguy, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. pghguy

    pghguy New Member

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    It's no secret that most modern religions frown upon homosexuality. There are a few that do now and perhaps even embrace it but most do. The big question is - why?

    Arguments against it being unnatural do not stand up to scrutiny. Science has proven this incorrect. And, even if it is a disorder or some sort, this is essentially no different than somebody having any other unprovoked condition like say - seizures. We certainly wouldn't consider seizures evil or sinful.

    It seems that the most likely reasons for condemning homosexuality originated something like this.

    Heterosexual sex can create new life. And, in ancient times, this was much more likely due to lack of scientific knowledge about menstrual cycles and the non-existence of artificial contraception. Naturally, homosexual sex cannot.

    Sexual relationships not producing a higher population where not beneficial. They did not produce future workers and additional subjects to the religious and secular leaders of the time.

    This would have been cause for concern because it would limit the number of people leaders held power over and limit the taxes governments could receive from them.

    So, ultimately, it seems that it was about power.

    As far as the Bible goes, it could not possibly have condemned homosexuality as we perceive it today. Why? Well first off, the word didn’t even exist until the 19th century. Second, history itself (dating both before and after the writing of the Bible) defies this logic.

    Here are some great resources on the subject:

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/homosexuality/
    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_year_did_homosexual_become_a_word
     
  2. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    What's the beef with homosexuality?

    visit any Gay Sauna and you'll soon find out lol
     
  3. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

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    Oh geez, Mixing together the words "Beef" and "Homosexuality"???

    If I can insert my 2 pence, I'd say, follow the explosive orgasism trail.
    There's got to be a big payday somewhere down the line.
    Maybe their's some type of underground economy that is the incentive.
    If I knew, I'd might sign up. But all I know is what I read in the back of the tabloids, just after the sports.
     
  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I think it may be misery loves company....these darn gays after being oppressed, abused, taunted and ridiculed still appear so damned happy it just pisses us off to no end.

    I for one, don't understand it, it just ain't my cup of tea. But it is also none of my damn business.

    When a politician or preacher is quite vocal on the subject it appears we only have to wait before we discover what they are expressing is a personal shame and they have yet to come out of the closet.

    I am in favor of unconditional love, agape not eros.
     
  5. pghguy

    pghguy New Member

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    All good points. As a heterosexual male, I don't really fully comprehend homosexuality either. But, I'm sure this is probably the same psychological problem gays have with understanding straight people.

    The bottom line is to "Love one's neighbor as one's self" and in condemning gays, we failt o do this.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Agreed.

    There is discussion that this is what Paul was struggling with. He often referred to what he knew better of but could not overcome. Possibly Leviticus teachings and understanding where Jesus was coming from were trying on his spirit. We've seen many a pious church leader have similar issues.
     
  7. pghguy

    pghguy New Member

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    Just for clarification, what I meant in regard to the Bible not dealing with homosexuality as we know it today is that the focus in the Bible is basically on rape, sex between a person of higher and lower social status implying that it is about control and dominance, and male to male prostitution.

    Referring to it as unnatural (although we now scientifically know this to be a mistake), was most likely not to be interpreted as immoral but rather unconventional or not the norm.
     
  8. horiturk

    horiturk New Member

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    there have been gays since people figured out how to do it,it won't be going away anytime soon and will most likely spread as people are desensitized and jaded so early and exposed to too many confusing things without proper guidance. i could care less what people choose to do with one another to be honest,i don't care if they get married either. as long as they're nice people they don't bother me.
     
  9. pghguy

    pghguy New Member

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    We have a limited set of rules or commandments that we take to be from God. These are the 10 Commandemnts from the Old Testiment and the 2 Commandments given by Jesus in the New Testiment.

    For whatever purpose - most likely power and social control, these have been preverted to mean things that they do not or extended beyond the info that God and the son of God gave us.

    Jesus himseld NEVER spoke on homosexuality and very few other sexual issues. What we have been taught, or more likely manipulated into thinking, is information mainly from Leviticus and the letter of Paul to the Romans. Both have been twisted to suit a particular agenda.

    And, when it all comes down to it, I'd much rather put my faith in the words we are to believe are directly from God or Jesus rather than the interpretations given by some government, church leader or person who wrote something decades or centuries after the death of Christ.
     
  10. Vajradhara

    Vajradhara One of Many

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    namaste pghguy,

    thank you for the thread.

    you, sir, have an enlightened attitude towards this subject. alas many do not for, i suspect, a variety of reasons not least of which has to do with their own internal emotional and ego states.

    iirc Aristotle suggested that a life which was unexamined was a life that wasn't worth living and it's my speculation that when some people examine their life they are quite disturbed by what they uncover and then seek to recover it in anger, shame and righteousness. unfortunately this can often then be redirected towards those things which caused the initial examination initially. if it's an inanimate object, it will be smashed and if it's a person, it will also be smashed.

    my concern is pretty straight forward. equal = equal not kind of equal or equal in most ways expect this.. either we are or we are not. i am on the pro side of that question and thus advocate for equal rights for all, not gay rights or transgender rights, just plain equal rights.

    surprising how difficult it can be to extend that idea to some groups, isn't it?

    metta,

    ~v
     
  11. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

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    I think the answer lies in the negative reaction of subjugated populations to the abuses found in the practice of pederasty within Greco-Roman culture. In this sense it is an almost gut-level, anti-elitist reaction that is echoed in the foundational mythology that forms the basis of Judeo-Chrisitan, and by extension Islamic scripture. Under close examination, modern homophobia can be seen to be a derivative and similar form of anti-elitist sentiment. It is less about an outright abhorrence of same gender preference, and more part and parcel of a larger, predominantly class based dis-identification with the artistic and intellectual elite and their perceived amoral values.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

    Chris
     
  12. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Right on the money, Chris. Makes me feel some satisfaction to hear another person say it so nice and neat.
     
  13. Amica

    Amica Member

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    The answer lies in that in natural law the sex has two purposes: reproduction and pleasure. For homosexuals it is only pleasure and not reproduction. The reproduction is huge as not many living creatures would survive if all would be homosexual. In many cultures marrying and having children in such marriage contributes to their societies. Contributing to society is often a religious duty.
     
  14. psychicpredictions

    psychicpredictions New Member

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    I have visions of the future when closet gays have the choice to be out or to go to rehab for treatment (if it can be treated). hahahah
     
  15. enlightenment

    enlightenment New Member

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    For the same reason that all the so called holy books of the desert religions are heavily mysoginistic, and that is that they were written by men in a culture in which such things as gay and womens rights did not exist. Indeed, I would be more surprised if the writings of these primative men were not overtly homophobic and mysognistic, wouldn't you..?

    The mentality can be seen today in many African nations, in which it is socially acceptable to still treat women as cattle, and gays would risk being murdered.
     
  16. shazni

    shazni little fire cracker

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    Am not an expert on religious texts except I have read the Qur'an n woman have equal rights in most issues.man n woman were created to pro-create.man n man or woman n woman cannot naturally.if we could there would b no point in two genders.we would all b asexual.like worms.or we'd b dual-gendered.like plants.creation has a purpose in my view.having said that...ppl can do whatever floats their boat...its their life.
     
  17. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Within the confines of faith, I think that it is about the lust aspects perceived when the relationship is not useful towards procreation. This is certainly apposed to living a pure life, although I think faiths often miss the areas of grey and only see black or white. Overall, I agree with you, it is up to the individual, if it gets out of hand there are sex clinics for that, religious people should not try to force their beliefs on others, there is enough to worry about trying to please God yourself. Certainly, in the process of attempting to force others to please Him you are not doing very well at it yourself.
     
  18. shazni

    shazni little fire cracker

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    ^ditto...couldn't have said it better myself
     
  19. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    God has clarified this 'beef' in His last revelation folks, and here it is, free of charge! :)


    What does Islam say about homosexuality?

    Taken from the book titled 'Common Questions People Ask About Islam' by Shabir Ally.

    Islam teaches that homosexual acts are sinful and punishable by God. This teaching comes not from human beings, but from the Creator of all humans. God tells us in His own words how He punished the people of Lot for their homosexual behaviour.

    The story of prophet Lot, on whom be peace, finds mention in several Qur'anic passages, especially Chapter 26:160-175 which reads: "The people of Lut rejected the apostles. Behold, their brother Lut said to them: "Will ye not fear (God)? "I am to you an apostle worthy of all trust. "So fear God and obey me. "No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the lord of the Worlds. "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom God has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing (all limits)!" They said: "If thou desist not, O Lut! thou wilt assuredly be cast out!" He said: "I do detest your doings." "O my Lord! deliver me and my family from such things as they do!" So We delivered him and his family,- all Except an old woman who lingered behind. But the rest We destroyed utterly. We rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): and evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but heeded not)! Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe. And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might Most Merciful."

    From these passages we learn that God saved Lot and the righteous ones of his family, and rained on the rest a shower of brimstone, so they were utterly destroyed. This is mentioned in the Qur'an not only for the sake of information, but mainly to serve as a warning to anyone who dares to repeat such acts.
    ......................

    ps: it is also punishable by man too within the framework of the law
     
  20. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    can you tell me why it is then then that this beef is so popular in the arab world ?
     

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