Assignment: "Freewill" (Pro/Con)

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Gatekeeper, Mar 8, 2011.

  1. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Spoken by a gal who lives in a city?! I bet your family would miss you!
     
  2. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Perhaps why I asked you?
     
  3. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Hey, everything should be fine as long as I get first dibs on the time-out chair. {Although I am willing to share the time out chair and cuddle.}
     
  4. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Why, were you being bad... beating on your spouse again? Are you taking a timeout from doing good, because you were doing evil?

    I can just imagine the sign on the entrance to a gulag: We just needed a timeout from you! :D
     
  5. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Nope. I need the timeout chair because I am an introvert. Being introverted doesn't mean you are evil. (No matter how much the extraverts may chide) :p

    Truth is stranger than fiction.
     
  6. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    So you think a person afraid of life must avoid it, to overcome it.

    I've been known to put the dampers on a few relationships, but I have never used the excuse of being introverted.

    There is plenty of fiction spoken within the real relationships... I'm not so sure why you call that strange. :D
     
  7. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Nope. It's not like that.
    Extraversion and introversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Too true
     
  8. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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  9. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Why selfish? Being one or the other only indicates tendencies in what we prefer. The choice comes later. Isn't being selfish or not a result of the choices we make?
     
  10. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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  11. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Why not sacrifice? Carl Jung's definition is that you are either: interested in a self attained mental state, or interested in obtaining self gratification from something outward. His definition and measure says more about himself than anyone else.

    You say that choices come later, yet question whether or not a trait is a result of choices made. The future comes later. Is being something, or not, a result of the future? The history is past. Is being something, or not, a result of the history?
     
  12. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Why not mercy instead?
     
  13. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    First Jung was a Theoretical Psychologist not a psychiatrist, in other words he developed the techniques of which psychologists and psychiatrists use.

    I don't see extroversion or introversion as being selfish, could you go into that a little?

    What do you believe Self-Realization to be?
    Jung believed in Individuation, individuals in contact with the conscious world but also allow themselves to experience their unconscious self achieve individuation.
     
  14. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Yes, why not mercy instead? That is the sacrifice I intended: patience, mercy, forgiveness, kindness. Why not mercy instead? I hope you don't think I was implying that you should sacrifice your husband, pidgeons, or turtle doves. :D That would be rather selfish.
     
  15. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    The question is a little Ckicken and Eggish (I think). As we choose to act in a certain manner (selfish, sacrificial, mercifully, consciously.... etc) we reinforce the mental state (same as preferably select to exercise certain neural pathways with their associated chemical releases). But at the same time if we are selfish, merciful, etc we tend to express our choices in action that are selfish or merciful (same as our neural pathways have a predilection to release certain chemicals). It could be that being selfish or merciful releases the same neurotransmitters, making us feel "good".

    Does that make any sense? Pax et amore omnia vincunt!
     
  16. luecy7

    luecy7 New Member

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    Then I guess Sabina Spielrein and Antonia Wolff were not really his patients?! Perhaps then he was a patient of theirs.

    What do I think self-realization is? I think self-realization comes from seeking the approval of others, not that others are necessarily honest or right, but that it requires living and making choices in the relationships with others to be known, to know self in those circumstances, and should it be seen as good to do so, to even change.
     
  17. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    If I understand you correctly this describes a person in a vacuum, but how we act also has reactions which shapes our future choices, yes? So even since childhood we have been shaped by reactions of our intro/extro attitude .
     
  18. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    I would also like to add the role of empathy/sympathetic joy to the mix, as well as "contagious" (generated and empowered by a group) feelings.
     
  19. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    Ok, he practiced psychiatry, but that's not what I'm talking about and you know it. If he made baskets in his spare time, are we calling him a basket weaver and the basket cases his clients? Isn't the crux of this discussion more important than this? I certainly don't have the time for defending myself over trivial pursuit.

    Jung seems to think it is acquired through individuation which is the balancing of several aspects of the Self.
     
  20. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    "If I understand you correctly this describes a person in a vacuum, but how we act also has reactions which shapes our future choices, yes? So even since childhood we have been shaped by reactions of our intro/extro attitude." ACOT.

    Of course, but our actions and mantal states (decisions) are cyclic, they re-enforce. That but should answer the question (yes, it is the case that our mental states influence our choices which rdetermine our actions). I was a pre-adolescent male stutterer (really low, low recovery rate) and therefore very shy. I changed that, I do not even react in a shy way at alol any more (I am way too sensitive to criticism, my last three bosses have all been pretty shocked when they found out how insecure I am--currt boss is female and she groks it).

    "I would also like to add the role of empathy/sympathetic joy to the mix, as well as "contagious" (generated and empowered by a group) feelings." SG

    I was merely providing an "internal only view". empathy/sympathetic joy and contageous feelings are part of what I called "mental state". For me (unless I am working on project alone), those dominate my feeling space (but my bride would argue that "protection" or "guardianship" rule). I try not to seek projects alone, but sometimes (doing a lot of probability and other math work) I cannot help it (cannot find a job that lets me write philosophy or run projects).

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt!
     

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