Who is God?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Gatekeeper, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    As long as one accepts that the 'knowing' is relative and provisional. To know something assumes the knower is equal or greater than the thing known, and man is not that in relation to God.

    So we can know God as much as God reveals Himself to us.

    If we cannot say 'what', then we can hardly say 'who' with any accuracy.

    In the Abrahamic Traditions, God comes to us as us, that is God communicates to the person as a person, or more accurately God communicates to the person as Person — that is, as the Principle of Being — but we should always be mindful that God is not a person (therefore not a who) and God is not a thing (therefore not a what), as we know persons and things to be.

    Agreed, for that, and many other forms, are natural forms of worship. I would call it worship on the horizontal plane. A saying of the Fathers goes: 'Love God, and love thy neighbour, for where thy neighbour is, there God is'

    Then there is prayer, which is the highest form of worship man can aspire to.

    Then there is the Divine Liturgy.

    So if and when the sun burns out, God burns out too?

    It's a matter of seeing beyond the veils. People assume that Christianity 'took over' pagan traditions as a means of subverting the people, this is wrong. It's not a case of subversion, it's a case of seeing the truth symbolised (or occluded) by the forms.

    The sun is the source of life-giving light in this system, and for the Christian, the analogy to God is immediate and obvious, but the Christian does not worship the sun.

    In that sense however, all creation is an eikon, every offering a Eucharist, if the heart is in the right place.

    Well, I would say that creation is the movement from nothing to something, from nothing to the essence, from essence to substance ... so the process begins in the dark and emerges into the light.

    He did:
    "And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so. And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day. God also said:... "
    so we are still in the second day,
    "... God also said: Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done. And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good." (v 6-10)

    If you check the text, God sees what He has made and sees it as good seven times, the seventh being 'very good'.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  2. Bhaktajan II

    Bhaktajan II Well-Known Member

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    To know God we should first list what we have already revealed to us about him in scripture

    IF there is a God . . . then He would be:

    Known only through his "causeless mercy" via His "devotee of His devotee's mercy" [IOW, via His disciplic succession/avataras; even the lessons of living too, etc ].

    IF there is a God . . . then He would be:
    the Absolute Truth --the quintessence of Truth would be embodied in His Persona as the fountain head of all personality traits.

    1-the Richest,
    2-the strongest,
    3-the most intelligent,
    4-the most beautiful,
    5-the most famous,
    and,
    6-the most renounced.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    God is The original Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is infinitely full in all opulences ("Bhagavan"), specifically:

    God is the original person who possesses all
    • Beauty,
    • Fame,
    • Intelligence,
    • Power,
    • Wealth, and
    • Renunciation;

    also,


    God is the first person, with his own eternal and transcendental name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage and pastime.
    God's body is the absolute form of 'Sat-Chit-Ananda'—Eternity. Cognizance, and Bliss

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    God exists because of the principle:
    "Without the presence of the persona, all paraphernalia is without meaning nor purpose for existing"

    The Absolute = God the Person.
    God's Person = "The conclusion of the India’s Vedas [aka, vedanta, veda + anta]"
    The conclusion Vedanta Yogic Mysticism = God the Person.
    God is the embodiment & original source of all Persona
    'Para-brahman' ['Supreme Brahman'] = God the Person.
    'Param-atma' ['Supreme Soul'] = God the Person (localised in each particle of creation).

    God the Person must not be confused with a demagogue on any stratum of our mundane lives.


    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    God reveals Himself only by His own self & at His own Time & at His whim ---while we are in the Material-World (maya-prakriti-shakti).

    God’s external energy that emits the material world is known as “Maya” or “prakriti” or “shakti” ---all are considered the feminine expression of God’s external energies:
    God is the ‘energetic’,
    and,
    God’s Self-Expansion of the Material-World, aka, “prakriti” is the ‘energy’

    We are In-Seperation from God.

    God exists in the aspects:
    1 Brahman – the Void.
    2 paramatma – localised Spirit Life
    3 Bhagavan – The Transcendent Personage of Godhead

    We are a microcosism of the original Time-less Godhead’s Abode.

    We are literally far away ---enjoying life after life without making any effort to escape.

    The good news is that eons of time passing are all negated when eternity is reached.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    The Void is absolute because its "qualities are immutable".

    The Sanskrit Vedas say, God expands his energies to form the Material and the Spiritual Worlds.
    In the Material world God exists in Three Aspects:
    1 Brahman [the void] ---the void is untainted by matter/energy/time . . . just like each Soul is.
    2 Paramatma [the life-force nucleus of each particle of matter & energy]
    3 Bhagavan [The Personage of Godhead Transcendent] ---La Persona Suprema de Dio.

     
  3. whacky43

    whacky43 passerby

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    Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
    Why do you suppose then Christians, Jews, and Muslims all consider God to be a "he", even though it is revealed in both the bible and koran that God is more of a "we", or "us"?

    Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them

    Furthermore,

    Gen 5:1-2 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    So, we have no Eve, no serpent, no tree, no "original sin", no Cain, no Abel, no murder, no death penalty, no increased labor pains, no chopping off a snake's legs:), or any "splitting of the Adam" we see "in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." The day the Adam was split all hell broke loose. Is that not ironically prophetic?

    So, God does reveal a bit of Their nature to us. We know that God is Spirit of some sort of "light energy", and that God is also androgynous in nature, being both male and female, and that the creation in Genesis 1 is a Spiritual creation of a singular yet dual nature, "after God's own image".

    I do not agree, however, we can say "what" to a degree, and, the experience called Enlightenment or Spiritual Awakening, or Kundalini, is actually more of a "God-realization". It involves coming to know Them as a celestial "Parental" figure. Whether that is a who or a what is up to you. I prefer who myself. The "what" is far beyond my feeble mind's comprehension.

    Sorry, I did not mean to imply that there is actually a "trinity", I meant it only in the sense that it applies to the number three. The answer to your question is who knows. If a day is as 1000 years, and vice versa, then how long is an "eternity" in celestial time? We as humans are not privy to that or any other "supernatural" information, despite all those who claim to have special abilities to either talk to dead folks, or even talk to God Theirself. Communication with the Holy Spirit comes in the form of "thought", not voices. Have you Thomas ever had a thought that you know was you, but, also that it did not seem to come from your conscious brain, usually in the form of a warning of sorts not to do something you were about to do? My guess is yes, as everybody has. You probably ignored it, did the thing anyway, and bad stuff happened as a result. That is the norm. And, that is the Spirit of God that exists within you, aka the Holy Spirit of the Divine Feminine. I just call Her Mom. She's down here in this hellhole doing all the work, and getting zero credit or even recognition.

    Man you are deep! You must be a really smart guy. I would agree that it is a matter of seeing beyond the veils, because that is where Truth lies.

    And well they shouldn't. There are enough problems with the way they worship. They aren't alone, however. Jews and Muslims have problems as well, but, I am no man's judge, so I'll leave it at that.

    eikon, icon, it's all the same. Actually, all creation is an "illusion", if you pay heed to God's Word written in all of Their works.

    So, why does everything seem to be going backwards?


    I stand corrected. So, how did we go from "very good" to "hell in a handbasket"?:)

    peace

    steve eden
     
  4. whacky43

    whacky43 passerby

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    May I get off the subject for a quick question. How do I properly insert multiple quotes in my posts? I cannot seem to do it right. I'm a simple man I reckon, but, I would greatly appreciate anyone's help on this matter. Thank you in advance.

    peace

    steve eden
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah ... you've made a fundamental grammatical error here ... the use of the plural is the same as the use of the plural used in the UK when the monarch speaks, he or she says 'we'.

    God cannot be plural, or a collective, as beyond is beyond number, and metaphysically that would render the Absolute, relative.

    No, it's tragically causative.

    If you're checking into Hebrew re the plural thing, you might want to check out the meanings attached to the Hebrew adamah, ish, isha:
    "Then the man said, "This one at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. This one shall be called woman (isha) for from man (ish) she was taken". (Bereshit 2:23).

    That's what I said.What is revealed is what is, in a certain sense, 'common' to both creature and Creator.

    Do we? I think that's a relatively modern and erroneous assumption. God is neither 'light' nor 'energy' as we commonly understand either.

    You should read St Gregory of Nyssa on this ... he's quite informative.

    Not really. Kundalini is a human potentiality ... it's not divine.

    If you don't know what, then you risk being fooled by the glamour of appearances ... all sacred scriptures speak of such, and here's the real and inestimable value of tradition.

    Demons can mask themselves as good ... and if you don't know the what, you won't know the difference. Corrupt intelligences and corrupt forms can deceive, and do lie.

    If indeed it is beyond your comprehension to know the difference, then withdraw, then watch your thoughts, your dreams, your health and the state of your friendships ... you could be at greater risk than you know or are aware of.

    No, that's your answer. I've already shown you that the initial premise is false, you didn't notice however.

    It has no duration, that's the point, the eternal is outside of time and space.

    'Eternity' can be as long as you like ... when I'm desperate and waiting for my daughter to get out of the loo, then I experience eternity ...

    Well you might assume so ... but if you do, then you've just refuted every claim to enlightenment you've made prior to this.

    Actually it comes in many forms — either through the senses or beyond them. I have experienced it as a knowing beyond thought, and as a visible manifestation. Don't assume what happens to you sets the benchmark for everyone.

    Yes, they're purely natural ... your body clocks much, much more than you consciously realise it does.

    No, I doubt it. That's purely natural ... there's a huge evidence of neuroscience to support that.

    I leant that from my tradition, it's not my own ... I rarely if ever post personal stuff here.

    And yet it exists ... so as long as you treat that "illusion" as contained within quotes, then you're on relatively safe ground ... remember that you are also part of that "illusion". You have to have a context.

    I had a good friend who became suicidal through reading Zen books ... or rather the kind of Zen commentaries you find in the 'New Age' section of bookshops. For him, everything was an illusion ... he had all the cool phrases, but no context.

    As Christ said to St Catherine of Sienna: "I am He Who Is. You are she who is not."
    What is meant is that God is the only self-subsistent thing ... all creation exists, and continues to exist from moment to moment, through the Logos.

    Miscomprehension?

    Pride and envy.

    God bless,

    Thomas
     
  6. Crijptex

    Crijptex New Member

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    I am Happy to see all the responses here but the best answer comes from bhaktajan Hare Krishna Devotee
    And believe me he is right the Bible, Koran just describing the creation in a short form they had more important things to talk about in their opinion the Vedas is giving a better description of how the creation is done and by who and if the Creator who is the beginning and the end when it created the other gods that is revered too in the bible Archangels and from there the Angels where created.
    Thus at that time the Creator was not alone thus also God and the Goddess are one that is why we cannot perceive it we only think in man or woman male or female due to the limitations in our mind.
    Looking at that information and the reason that the Pagan also believe in a female God the Goddess
    There the Church a Male dominated institution is and band female leadership the concept of a Goddess is taken out of the bible teaching in the time that the Romans took the religion as there state religion and altered most of the books we know now
    Thus the best way to see God the creator is the beginning of all and it is a combination of the Goddess and God they cannot exist whit out each that is also the reason in every teaching that Man and Wife need to get married and multiply
    May The Goddess and God Bless us
     
  7. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Approaching God from a me-centered point of view has long kept me from understanding certain things about God and things that are spoken about God. It has been a mental barrier to understanding but more than a mental barrier I think. God is a deniable, doubt-able experience. Experience with God is experience that you have to already have in common with another person in order to have a common frame of reference. You can talk without the experience but will not be talking about the same things. I suggest that trying to understand principles and doing them is what causes people to experience God. It is seeking God. This seems to be the common thread in the most reliable testimonies on the subject. It is also the only way I have ever met God with a feeling of certainty, and the times I could say I have experienced 'God' has been at times when I was focused on the concept of goodness and an appreciation of it. I was trying to find out what to do, how to do it, how to help, etc. (There may have been one exception, but generally that has been the way of things.)
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Who is God?


    I am.


    Now some would call that overly 'me-centered'. While I'll say in order to say that you need to 'be still' and get out of the way.

    Private club....no egos allowed.

    Only ONE member.


    Us.
     
  9. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    When we can see/feel/relate to God in the one person/people/creature we've hitherto excluded ...

    ... we're one step closer [to God - Who else!]

    :)

    {no need to get into the Identity problem; the `K.I.S.S.' principle works well here, but that's not good enough for some of us ijits, hence it's been said, "The mind is the great slayer of the Real."}
     
  10. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    God is as God revealed in His last revelation; we can trust this to be the correct definition of God as the last revelation is the only one that remains undistorted; so here it is folks; the real 'God':

    Gods name is Allah; this is the personal name of God; this name incorporates the meanings of Gods other 99 names, such as most mercifull, The just, The loving, etc, etc,; here is a list of His 99 names:

    The Most Beautiful Names of Allah


    Also God has no gender and the 'his' or 'he' reference are just words used with language masculinity and not denoting gender in any way at all

    God or 'Allah' as we will be calling Him now, is the Creator and controller of the universe; He is One thus no-one or nothing at all shares in His dominion; apart from ALlah, everything is His creation and are in total control of Him

    Allah [swt; glorified and exalted be He] is one, not in the numerical sense but in the sense that nothing at all is assosicated with Him, thus ALlah is nothing at all like His creation or like anything we can ever think of, for human thoughts are created and ALlah is far above all those created concepts and things


    So that is ALlah, from who'm we have all come and to who'm we shall all return!

    Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave ? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous.
    Quran 2:255
     
  11. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    God is the Lord of Oneness

    Anything which segregates is not of God
     
  12. Crijptex

    Crijptex New Member

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    you are so corect in those couple words
     
  13. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    God can not be defined.

    If you can define God then your definition is not God but an idol.
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I can go with the first half but the second doesn't completely resonate....

    But I do believe our attempts to define G!d are always weak, limiting and fall far short of the breadth and scope of all that is.
     
  15. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    Agreed!

    Islam says no different; unity [of God and mankind, together with the creation as an expression of Gods creative power] is Allah's core message

    Allah says:

    (1) Surah al-Imran (3:103):
    "And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of Allah and be not divided."​
     
  16. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    MashALlah something we agree on at last! :):

     
  17. Abdullah

    Abdullah Member

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    NCOT is right, for when the concept of God is defined [i.e encompassed with the human mind, or a particular thought is associated with Him [such an an image, shape, etc, etc,] then it is that thought people worship rather than God
     
  18. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    But can't we define aspects of God?
    It is one thing not to comprehend him fully, but we know the "face" he shows us....even though many see different things.
     
  19. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    i do think that God can meet with just where we are in ways that we can relate to him.
     
  20. NiceCupOfTea

    NiceCupOfTea Pathetic earthlings

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    wow what a suprise :)
     

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