Luciferianism

seattlegal said:
Actually it was this line that lead me onto this line of thought:
5 Then the Red magus shall behold only Leviathan, and he shall recognize that he has become the perfect mind, who shall remake the Cosmos in the eternal glory of
his Satanic Will.​
A "perfect mind" would be free from delusion, no? How's the Red magus supposed to recognize this so-called "perfect mind?"
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Ahhh ok . . .
When you are the 'perfect' mind you are the creator of your own universe, therefore it is everything you are and nothing that you don't want it to be.
 
seattlegal said:
Let me see if I can communicate this a bit more clearly: "I think, therefore I am" doesn't cut the muster when it comes to "perfect mind." From the perspective of a questionably "perfectly minded" creator, there must be some sort of criteria for "perfect mind" {in order for the term to hold any meaning.} With criteria, there must be some sort of checklist/mechanism to test this criteria. If you wish to avoid a self-referencing paradox fallacy (or fantasy-delusion,) this criteria/mechanism would then have to be independent of "perfect mind." (Does the term "perfect" leave any room for a possible self-referencing paradox fallacy? Does the term "perfect" leave any room for any sort of fallacy at all?)

Therefore, my conclusion, from the theoretical and conjectural perspective of a so-called "perfectly minded" creator, the only way to meet this criteria would be to create a free-willed being, not dependent upon the Creator's mind, who can then create independently from its creator, and confirm that the original "perfectly minded" creator is not delusional.

{I hope this makes sense. I'm under the influence of hormones, sugar, and Alice in Chains atm, so it might not be clear. I've also noticed I've been skipping words here and there, so clarity might be quite difficult for me to achieve right now.} :p
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have to be independent of "perfect mind."
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Exactly, the perfected mind/Monad is non-dualistic . . . the moment it reflects upon itself (again) then it is imperfect/duality and once again the Fall into the physical begins.
 
Etu Malku said:
Exactly, the perfected mind/Monad is non-dualistic . . . the moment it reflects upon itself (again) then it is imperfect/duality and once again the Fall into the physical begins.
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I am starting to see where you are coming from and I agree. It is strange that luciferism is not far from christianity.
 
Satanist think there is no Satan, Luciferians think there is no Lucifer, most Atheists are not saying that God definitely doesn't exist but just that they are not sure whether he does or not - where does it end?
 
Thanks so much for this thread! My husband became Luciferian about 6 months before he died, and even as a Satanist myself, I have been struggling with trying to understand what he believed. I have also been doing research to try and respect his wishes and hopefully correct the damage done by his VERY Christian family at his funeral, which basically turned into a church sermon complete with many Bible readings... He would have HATED it and I want to do anything and everything I can to fix that.

Care to elaborate on Luciferian views of death and the afterlife (if any)? From what I gather, death truly is the end... but from some things my husband said, it seemed as if he was doing his rituals to ensure his spot in hell. Forgive me if I sound ignorant, I'm just trying to understand.
 
Etu Malku said:
I have been asked to shed a little Light on Luciferianism as I practice it. I chose this category only because there have been discussions about Satanism, I really do not consider Luciferianism adequately portrayed in the category of Magick, but we work with what we have.

My understanding of Luciferianism is somewhat complex, there are times I do not even understand it, LOL, but I will try to convey the basics of this philosophical system.

Firstly, we are not Satanists.
There exists two basic schools of Luciferian thought, one is Theistic and the other non-Theistic (what I am).
Non-Theistic Luciferianism does not recognize non-corporeal deities such as gods, devils, demons or even Lucifer . . . LOL!

- from Lucipedia
- contributed by myself for the Lucipedia project


I hope this is enough information to begin a discourse with everyone here, and possibly the creation of a Left Hand Path category (LHP) to discuss this further.
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There's a bit more to it than that, and while Luciferianism and Satanism are not synonymous...they can overlap(one can be both or one can be either/or) as there a several different subtypes of each and even more subsects in each.
It's kind of like how Catholicism and protestantism are different but have some overlap, or how the 3 abrahamic faiths(as well as Sikhism and a few other revealed religions) are separate and different yet have a number of shared influences(and some separate ones) and some shared ideas or values or principles or beliefs(and some different). The same is true of Luciferianism and Satanism(it would be more accurate to speak of LuciferianismS and SatanismS...the same is true for most religions...and nonreligions and theism and DeismS and atheismS...or simply nontheismS).

I used to be a Symbolic neo-gnostic Luciferian and a Dark Doctrines Sat-Tanist myself(I also referred to myself as Deistic Satanist and Deistic Luciferian, amongst other things)..especially influenced(at the time) by the Satanic Reds, John Alees First Church of Satan, Thelema, Chaotism, and was involved for awhile with Michael W.Fords and Jeremy Crowe's *Greater church of Lucifer*(as well as being inspired/influenced by other subtypes/sects and thinkers). But have since rejected them as I rejected christianity and revealed religion years before(after being such for my first 25 years)...I've rejected ALL *religion* including LHP religion several years ago.

May I ask you what particular(if any) Luciferian organizations you are or have been affiliated with and/or particularly inspired/influenced by?
Also have you heard of Carl William Hansen(pen name. Ben Kadosh) and his Luciferian book from 1906(dawn of a new morning, return of the worlds master builder Lucifer-Hiram) and what are your thoughts on him/it?
Arw you at all influenced by Crowley/Thelema?

Also lastly, I think I know you(that we've interacted online before. Or maybe I've just run acrossed your comments/posts or writings somewhere, but I'm pretty sure I've heard your name before).

Cheers.
In reason.
Contrarian Deist.

P.S. you classify yourself as *non-theistic*, does that mean you're an atheist? An agnostic? Or a deist?
And whichever of those 3 you are, what are your thoughts on the other two(and also on theism)?
 
Etu Malku said:
Atheists hold no faith in anything other than empirical evidence based on science. Luciferians have faith there exists something greater than our material Being.
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I have to challenge that claim. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a deity or deities(soft atheism) and/or belief that there is and/or cannot be any deity or deities(hard atheism). In itself it makes no dogmatic claims about anything else. There are forms of Buddhism/buddhists which are atheists...and atheists may be of other nontheistic religions and/or may have faith in other things. Laveyan Satanists claim to be atheists(though technically Lavey was agnostic-deist when he started out and the CoS does admit agnostics and Deists but not theists into the org and even Gilmore admits deism is a rational position) ...and they claim to be faithless but nonetheless even if atheists...they have superstitios faith based ideas in magick and in other things.

Lastly, dogmatic atheists most certainly DO have *faith* in their view and in ...not science... but the inherency, infallibility, and incorruptability of the scientific *establishment* and in its *current* leading hypothesis as if they are not subject to change in the future...even drastic alterations over time, and faith in pseudiskeptical mindsets. They most certainly do willfully refuse to even look at, carefully and fairly weigh p/analyze evidences that challenge their a-priori preconceptions
And they tend to be philosophically shallow sophists(not all of them, but alot and particularly their high priests...the *thinkers* and public atheists and public talking head establishment scientists and public popular pseudoskeptic *DISbelievers/DEbunkers*...all of whom they treat as if they are high priests...of the faith they and belief they deny having in their dishonest cultism).
Yes, many atheist DO have both a negative belief and...FAITH(negative but a belief and faith nonetheless) and willfully , stubbornly, refuse to even look at....let alone analyze objectively and fairly consider...that others may present to them(and then go on to claim ...*they have no evidence, woo-woo...lalalala I'm putting my fingers in my ears...my hands over my eyes...I refuse to look or hear or consider that...I might be incorrect*).
Thet also have *faith* in establishment science(they call it *scientific method* though it is not fully *scientific* it rather is faith in the limited TOOLS of measurement/tech of the time...and then pretend that tech, methodology, and the leading hypothesis drawn therefrom...temporarily...are a be all-end all)

Not all atheist are like this, but the only ones who arent...are not the hard atheists but the ACTUALLY skeptical(cautiously open minded/open mindedly cautious) heavily agnostic atheists who are not so easily dismissive, closed minded, arrogant (ignorant and arrogant in their willlfull ignorance) or pseudiskeptical. These exist...but they're few and far between.

Also nihilist atheists(most atheists arent nihilists, some are) will claim, that because they not only don't believe in any deity(ies)or divine/mystical aspects to life/cosmos but also don't believe in anything period. That is also a type of belief and faith(it also requires a stubborn, intellectually lazy need and propensity to just willfully ignore presented evidences or reasoned counter arguments to their presumption or bias),

Yes, many...if not most....especially modern nu-atheists...have *faith*
 
Contrarian Deist said:
Also lastly, I think I know you(that we've interacted online before. Or maybe I've just run acrossed your comments/posts or writings somewhere, but I'm pretty sure I've heard your name before).
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@Etu Malku was banned from IO some time ago. I don't know why. It was before my time. His last comment in this thread was in 2013. He may still read your comments but won't be able to respond.

Hopefully your giving this old thread a bump may get responses from current members
 
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In fact the ban on @Etu Malku has now been lifted. It was a long time ago whatever he did. Perhaps he will read this and respond to your comments
 
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RJM Corbet said:
In fact the ban on @Etu Malku has now been lifted. It was a long time ago whatever he did. Perhaps he will read this and respond to your comments
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I hope so. I'm pretty sure I know him from somewhere in my travels in my occult years(maybe we were facebook friend? I think that might be it).

Anyways, hopefully he will see and respond(if he has rejoined after his ban). I hate bannings...I love free speech.
 
Contrarian Deist said:
I hope so. I'm pretty sure I know him from somewhere in my travels in my occult years(maybe we were facebook friend? I think that might be it).

Anyways, hopefully he will see and respond(if he has rejoined after his ban). I hate bannings...I love free speech.
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I was in Etu Malku's Mercuræn Luciferian Order Herald of the Dawn since 2014, which he recently dissolved, but most of the members have reformed the Order without him. You probably know him from the GCoL (lol.)
 
seattlegal said:
I was in Etu Malku's Mercuræn Luciferian Order Herald of the Dawn since 2014, which he recently dissolved, but most of the members have reformed the Order without him. You probably know him from the GCoL (lol.)
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Yeah, I think your right. I think I converses with him a few times on the GCoL Facebook page chat, and I think we were Facebook friends too.
If you're still in contact with him, tell him he should rejoin these forums and respond here...if he's willing. And give him my regards...he may remember me(names Bill Baker).

Thanks for your response and that update.
Be well.
In reason
C.D.
 
Contrarian Deist said:
Yeah, I think your right. I think I converses with him a few times on the GCoL Facebook page chat, and I think we were Facebook friends too.
If you're still in contact with him, tell him he should rejoin these forums and respond here...if he's willing. And give him my regards...he may remember me(names Bill Baker).

Thanks for your response and that update.
Be well.
In reason
C.D.
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He's still on Facebook under his Etu Malku name.
 
seattlegal said:
He's still on Facebook under his Etu Malku name.
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Yeah I deleted my Facebook account awhile ago. And most my other social media. Got sick of it, even left the internet completely for the last year and a half until the last month. No plans on reconnecting, lol. Gone off the grid a little.
 
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RJM Corbet said:
Sure. But all clubs have a code of conduct that members accept on joining and no-one forces anyone to join?
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True, in those contexts private clubs and such have a right to certain rules they choose...so long as they do not infringe on basic individual rights and liberties in the process and so long as they are not based in double standards.

For more on the free speech issue, check out my response in the thread you started *free speecg vs no platforming*
 
In general we don't ask to be born. We have a right to free speech. But we have the right to join specific interest groups with specific boundaries and agree to the boundaries when we join. 'Right of Admission Reserved' kind of ...
 
RJM Corbet said:
In general we don't ask to be born. We have a right to free speech. But we have the right to join specific interest groups with specific boundaries and agree to the boundaries when we join. 'Right of Admission Reserved' kind of ...
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Fair enough, agreed.
 
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