Sound and Sacred Geometry?

[BrotherMichaelSky]

not much to say here except to share a few things :

there was an episode of "The Pyramid Code" entitled High Level Technology which I thought of immediately when I read the original post - y'all might wanna check it out...

secondly - I hear the vibration of entities which are close to me, which is why I am always mentioning the "vibration" of things. If I concentrate in a meditative state - on making sense of the sounds I hear, I am able to hear a difference in pitch depending on which sphere they approach me from.
I believe that sound is a very large tool for discernment.

 

[Etu Malku]

Philosophers and Mystics believe music to be above the other Arts. In that every other Art is creating a 'sample' of a certain emotion or emotive scene, whereas music 'is' that emotion and therefore exists at a higher level of spirituality.

Music, for Schopenhauer, was the purest form of art because it was the one that depicted the will itself without it appearing as subject to the Principle of Sufficient Grounds, therefore as an individual object. Schopenhauer thought that music was the only art that did not merely copy ideas, but actually embodied the will itself.

"Why is music called the divine art, while all other arts are not so called? We may certainly see God in all arts and in all sciences, but in music alone we see God free from all forms and thoughts. In every other art there is idolatry. Every thought, every word has its form. Sound alone is free from form. Every word of poetry forms a picture in our mind. Sound alone does not make any object appear before us." - Hazrat Inayat Khan (Indian Sufi Master and virtuoso musician)


Music is connecting with the Divine!
This sound has been called the Divine Utterance in Egyptian religion, the Word in the Bible, Naad, Jyoti and Shruti in the Hindu scriptures, Sraosha in the Zoroastrian scriptures, Kalma in the Muslim scriptures, Sonorous Light in the Buddhist scriptures, Naam or Shabd by the Sikhs, and the Theosophists call it the Voice of Silence. It is the power of the Divine manifesting in creation.

When The Divine decided to create, this thought emanated as two principles: Light and Sound. The current of divine light and music was the cause of all creation. This current flows out from The Divine and also returns to The Divine.

The manifestation of music, through musicians here on the Physical is but a reflection of The Divine's inner music.

This music is like a magnetic current that elevates the soul into the spiritual realms beyond. Once we contact that sound, we are enabled to rise far above from mere body-consciousness. That sound fills us with indescribable ecstasy. We become so intoxicated that every pore of our being cries out in ecstasy.

So, in essence when you drink from music you are drinking directly from the Divine.

 

[Etu Malku]

Hi etu, I think your confusing EMRadiation( photons ) with sonics. Kinda of like mixing oranges and apples.

Sonics is related to vibration of air, water or some such
substance/medium.

EMRadiation is exists at much larger/broade scale of frequencies than sonics.

And altho they share some of the same mathematical frequencies they are still like totatlly differrent aspect of physical Universe.

From what I understand bats and some dolphins or porposies make vibrate the air or water around them to the highest-- ergo shortest frequency ---for those molecules to vibrated at before the atoms start disintegrating as infra-red radiation.


Whales do the long frequency thing with sonics but I'm not sure what the longest known frequencies of sonics is.

I like OM or AUM or just plain ole mmmmm. "Its all rock and roll to me"---Billie Joel.

Rybot the Rybot

Actually it wouldn't be so much 'my' confusion as much as it would be Princeton professor Robert Dicke, physicist Dave Wilkinson, and 1978 Nobel Prize for physics scientists Robert Wilson and Arno Penzias' confusion, if indeed it is a confusion in the first place.

Now, I am certainly not a Quantum Phycisist but I do believe that a photon is an elementary particle, a quantum of light. And light is vibration, everything in the universe is simply vibration.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Sound is the frequency of sonics that humans can hear with our ears.

May be drop the issue of "Sonics", and just apply the logic to the issue of Geometry (symetry).

 

[Etu Malku]

I'm confused here.

son·ic (s

n

k)adj.1. Of or relating to audible sound: a sonic wave.
2. Having a speed approaching or being that of sound in air, about 1,220 kilometers (760 miles) per hour at sea level.

Audible sounds are frequencies that are within our hearing range, all sound is vibration.


sound (sound)n.1. a. Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.
b. Transmitted vibrations of any frequency.


So, I am not really getting what you are saying OS-jbug

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Sure you can drop the "sonics", sound, frequency and vibrations if you so choose

Yes. Continue, I meant drop sonic but keep "frequency and vibrations" ---since that would be "symetry".

Question:

Is there such s thing as an "a-symetrical frequency"?

Is a-symetrical frequency always cocaphonous noice?

I can see "Vibrations" being a-symetrical.

But, "symetry" unto itself, IMO (pardon the pun) harkens to the formation of sound.

Can a ripple in water be a-symetrical?

Can a snow-flake be a-symetrical?

Can a candle's flame be a-symetrical without windy interference?

 

[seattlegal]

Yes. Continue, I meant drop sonic but keep "frequency and vibrations" ---since that would be "symetry".

Question:

Is there such s thing as an "a-symetrical frequency"?

Frequency, by definition, would require a symmetrical wavelength. I might be able to have asymmetrical amplitude and still be a "frequency." I would have to defer to the specialists here.

Is a-symetrical frequency always cocaphonous noice?

I wouldn't think so. Symmetry is not required to achieve balance and harmony, imo. (The ancient Egyptians might disagree, though.)

I can see "Vibrations" being a-symetrical.

But, "symetry" unto itself, IMO (pardon the pun) harkens to the formation of sound.

Can a ripple in water be a-symetrical?

Can a snow-flake be a-symetrical?

Can a candle's flame be a-symetrical without windy interference?

Can "perfection" be achieved in the objective universe? I'm thinking it is a subjective concept.

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

Since I am always guilty of using the term "vibration" when trying to describe my experiences - i will interject here...
It seems you folks are trying to fit everything about this subject into the descriptions of the very narrow range of audible sound.
I do not think that is going to work.
The reason is this (and please bear with me - I am trying to avoid scientific terms and describe something I experience ) :
If one is to experience vibrations higher ( or lower - for whatever reason ) they will indeed "experience" those sounds using perceptions which are "outside" of the ears...... my entire being vibrates with those frequencies when I explore them - not the bones in my ears....
How do i explain the use of senses you are not even aware you posess? I cannot.

But I CAN tell you that i have worked on boats - I became aware of a phenomenon called Cavitation. When a boat has two props, they must be operated at the same speed or cavitation will occur - an example of the Chaos Theory... the two vibrations will "battle" and all sorts of cross currents and chaos will ensue....

This can be displayed easily in your driveway as well - place a glass of water on the hood of your car... it will vibrate and concentric rings will be seen on the surface of the water as it idles evenly.... rev the engine and the water will splash and thrash until a higher vibration is evenly assumed, where the concentric rings will form again....
the period of thrashing describes the change from one vibration to the other.... a period of chaos....

I believe the asymmetrical frequencies you mention are just these types of frequencies - the contact of two dissimilar vibrations.... portions of reality going through a change....

Symmetry is a message from our Creator. It is representative of Universal Law. It tells us that peace may be had anywhere we exist - if we are aware of our natural state. Furthermore, it assures us that during our moments of Chaos - that peace and rest is to be found at the end of our trials...

Harmony is the result of Symmetry... and it is representative of Perfection - which we are never to forget is our destination ( which is why the examples surround us... )

and to forestall another question - Yes, even asymmetrical vibration is "perfection" - for it leads us in a natural way towards that which is perfect .... one might even say that it is the asymmetrical which is even more beneficial to us at this stage than the symmetrical - it keeps us seeking... one can not relax in chaos....
and do not forget that the physical is where we are confronted by opposites.... and one of those opposites MUST appear "Bad" to us... that's how the physical works....

I am convinced that vibration will one day be our best road map to the Heavens - i feel the equipment within me to determine vibration in an exact way. I can find the same vibratory "places " EXACTLY, with no difficulty - in a repeatable way.... and i accept information which directly equates to vibration... which must "lower" itself before i begin to understand..... Life is Movement - of which Vibration is the signature....

 

[Etu Malku]

Brain Entrainment
There are four principal brainwave states that range from high-amplitude, low-frequency delta to low-amplitude, high-frequency beta. These states range from deep dreamless sleep to a state of high arousal. These four brainwave states are common throughout humans. All levels of brainwaves exist in everyone at all times, even though one is foregrounded depending on the activity level. When a person is in an aroused state and exhibiting a beta brainwave pattern, their brain also exhibits a component of alpha, theta and delta, even though only a trace may be present.


Brain Waves
Beta – 14-20Hz Normal waking consciousness
Alpha – 8 -13Hz Daydream, meditation
Theta – 4-7Hz Heightened creativity, Shamanic work, deep meditation
Delta - .5 – 3Hz Deep sleep, unconsciousness
*White noise is useful in overwhelming the conscious mind
*Both Alpha & Theta waves are needed for Trance States

 

[Etu Malku]

[FONT=&quot]Infernal Mantra[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] By Etu Malku III°[/FONT]​

​

I create My Self that I might define my Self.​

I my Self is distinct from the Order of the Cosmos, yet is ordered in and of my Self​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In order to know what is NOT the natural order of music we need to know first what the natural order IS.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We have basically two sounds; they are either Harmonious or Chaotic. Examples of Harmonious sounds include the human voice, vibrating strings, lawn mowers, jet engines, jack hammers, cars and fans. Examples of Chaotic sounds include crumpling paper, blowing leaves, sneezes, the background conversational din in a restaurant and firecrackers.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Each and every sound we hear, whether musical or noise this sound is surrounded by a series of harmonic overtones which vibrate and gives the sound its texture or timber in addition to its fundamental note or tone.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The cleaner and purer the sound/tone the fewer harmonic overtones are being produced. Think of the clean tone of a bell when first struck, the fundamental tone can be heard loudest and as the bell swells from resonating frequencies you hear deeper as well as higher ringing sounds, these are our harmonic overtones. When you hit a rock with a stick it produces hardly any resonating harmonic overtones.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Lord Rayleigh from his Theory of Sound of 1896: "the highly composite, and often discordant, character of the sounds of bells tend to explain the discrepancies sometimes manifested in estimations of pitch".[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Italian music theorist and composer of the 16th Century, Gioseffo Zarlino called musical intervals "inventions . . . of nature herself".[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Fibonacci sequence is a mathematical ratio which generates the classic spiral found in Nature / Ordered Universe. It is evident in many things such as, nautilus shells, the growth pattern of thorns on a rose, DaVinci's paintings and drawings, the pyramids and even sound. The distances between harmonic overtones of any sound, progress and change within the same ratio as that of the Fibonacci sequence. The Harmonic Overtone Series unfolds exactly like the Fibonacci sequence also known as the Golden Mean, and Phi (1 2 3 5 8 13 21 etc.). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This can be experienced on any string instrument, where if your finger is lightly placed at any one of the ratios a high harmonic tone can be plucked. These harmonics do not occur just anywhere but are in relation to these exact ratios that subdivide the string. This may be seen as the Natural Ordering of Sound being manifest into the Objective Universe for us to hear.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Johannes Avianius offered this viewpoint: "The harmonic, simple, and direct triad is the true and unitrisonic root of all the most perfect and most complete harmonies that exist in the world. It is the root of even thousands and millions of sounds, because each of them should ultimately be reduces to the parts of the triad, either by unison or by octave."[‘The Isagoge 1581].[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christiaan Huygens in his ‘The Celestial Worlds Discover'd' 1698 states "the Laws of Musick are unchangeably fix'd by Nature, and thus must not only apply for western cultures, the earth, and our solar system, but the rest of the universe too"[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

So, is there an opposite of this ordered sound? And if so, what could it be? Why would it be?​

There is and it is called [FONT=&quot]The Harmonic Undertone Series[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]
Our ear is said to be ‘naturally wired' to hear the Overtone Series, anything else is heard as ‘unnatural'. This brings me to what theorists call The Undertone Series. The Undertone Series is a series of notes that result from inverting the intervals of the overtone series. [/FONT]The undertone series is a series of notes that results from inverting the intervals of the overtone series. The undertone series does not sound simultaneously with its fundamental tone, as the overtone series does. It is, rather, opposite in every way.[FONT=&quot] There is no undertone series in the physical world.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
In Graham H. Jackson’s 2006 book ‘The Spiritual Basis of Musical Harmony' he states that the over/under tone series' represent on the one hand the outer, material world, and on the other hand, our subjective, inner world. The overtone series can be explained by materialistic science but the undertone series is only achieved by our subjective experience. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This brings me to The Infernal Mantra, as sound unfolds it spirals outward as well as inward on itself physically as well as in a very Hermetic way. [/FONT]

Staota [Avestan/Pahlavi] – A Vibration which could cause death or some change that which would encircle the one sounding the Staota in self-focused energy.​

The Avesta is a religious holy text from the Persian Empire dating thousands of years ago, it is based on prayers and hymns when sung or chanted in a mantra disciplined form create “Staota” or vibrations in sound. Staota or vibrations of sound may be used to open the mind to subjective.




The practice of using Staota “inverse” or backwards from the Avesta (or any religious doctrine) can be used to help produce Luciferian gnosis. Such sound manipulation can be proven in Binaural Beats frequencies, created by two frequencies operating in different ears to create a brainwave corresponding to an emotion. The brainwave frequency is the actual difference of the two different frequencies in each ear. The use of sound in ritual is empowering, it activates the imagination and allows belief to fully overtake and thus command.

The Sanskrit word mantra consists of the root man- "to think" and the suffix -tra, designating tools or instruments (instrument of thought). A sound, syllable, word, or group of words that are considered capable of "creating transformation" Mantras can be thought of as essentially "thought forms" which exert their influence by means of sound-vibrations.

Mantra and Staota are excellent forms of the Will projected into a form of action. These sounds are manifestations of ultimate reality, in the sense of sound symbolism postulating that the vocal sounds of the mantra have inherent meaning independent of the understanding of the person uttering them.
[FONT=&quot]Mantra's can be done in the following ways[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Mantra Yoga (chanting)[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Japa Yoga: [/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Vaikhari Japa (speaking)[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Upamsu Japa (whispering or humming)[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Manasika Japa (mental repetition)[/FONT]

The vibrations and sounds of the mantra are used to awaken the Kundalini or spiritual life force and even stimulate chakras according to many Hindu schools of thought. Again this is scientifically expressed in terms of brain entrainment.

In conclusion we find that the inversion of sound to be scientifically relevant as well as metaphysically useful to those of us on the LHP. With that said go ahead and find religious, or any phrases for that matter, which you find to be revolting or blasphemous if manipulated, construct your own word sigils by simply turning the word around and creating mantras and/or sections for your rituals. You will find the sounds intoxicating in a very adversarial way.​

​

*excerpt from my book Tarkhem: Music and the Black Arts
​

​

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

sounds like a long walk ( roll? ) with Stephen Hawking, all the away around the building - just to get to the door....
when we start out at the curb in front of the barn.....

 

[Bhaktajan II]

All geometry is sacred but some geometries are more basic/fundamental/essential to the operations or underpinnings of our finite physical Universe.

Contrarily, there must be infinite expressions of Geometry that HAVE NO EFFECT --to the operations of our finite physical Universe?

Are all mundane affairs preformed by individuals expressing Geometry that HAVE NO EFFECT, and thus, have negligible effects in the wider world outside the individuals' sphere of influence?

 

[Hermes]

The Tibetan lore heals with sound. They have bowls for that. So yes, I do believe this practice albeit I do not have experience neither as a patient or a healer (which I am not)..

Has anyone explored this?
Power-Of-Sound

 

[Hermes]

Scriabin was a composer who claimed that certain sounds could lift the collective karmic burden of mankind. See his Mystic chord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia idea. His piano work is hard to listen (complex) but he was well liked by the trained musical ears. His last work was not finished (same say the White Brotherhood took him out as he delved into subjects that were not to be meddled with)

I've studied and worked with Cymatics as well as Harmonagraphy, been very interested in the esoteric aspects of music for a while.

I will have a book finished 'someday' (lol) on music and metaphysics, been writing it for a few years now.

Great topic!

 

[seattlegal]

one can not relax in chaos....
....

Hey, speak for yourself!

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

Hey, speak for yourself!

well, perhaps I should say " Relaxing in Chaos has it's costs..."

 

[seattlegal]

Hey, speak for yourself!

well, perhaps I should say " Relaxing in Chaos has it's costs..."

Let's back up a bit here:

Harmony is the result of Symmetry... and it is representative of Perfection - which we are never to forget is our destination ( which is why the examples surround us... )

Where is the harmony in the symmetry of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?" I say "nay," as hate does not overcome hate.

and to forestall another question - Yes, even asymmetrical vibration is "perfection" - for it leads us in a natural way towards that which is perfect .... one might even say that it is the asymmetrical which is even more beneficial to us at this stage than the symmetrical - it keeps us seeking... one can not relax in chaos....

Oh, you mean like not paying back evil with evil, and such?

So yes, I can relax in such asymmetry, and balance and harmony can be achevied without symmetry.

We are getting away from sound and sacred geometry here. Maybe we can start another thread?

 

[wil]

Let's back up a bit here:


Where is the harmony in the symmetry of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth?" I say "nay," as hate does not overcome hate.


Oh, you mean like not paying back evil with evil, and such?

So yes, I can relax in such asymmetry, and balance and harmony can be achevied without symmetry.

We are getting away from sound and sacred geometry here. Maybe we can start another thread?

I look forward to it. (oh and that eye for an eye thing ain't a minimum, it is a maximum if any penalty at all is imposed)

 

[Etu Malku]

Scriabin was a composer who claimed that certain sounds could lift the collective karmic burden of mankind. See his Mystic chord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia idea. His piano work is hard to listen (complex) but he was well liked by the trained musical ears. His last work was not finished (same say the White Brotherhood took him out as he delved into subjects that were not to be meddled with)

Thanks! Yes, Scriabin! I am very familiar with his work and Theosophy. I have studied most of the world's Meta-Musicians from ancient cultures to Plato's Myth of Er to present.

A fantastic, if not overwhelming plethora of myth, spirit, and magick can be found studying these musical al-khemists.

Many of my compositions have been influenced by any number of these great thinkers.
Have a listen . . . TAR KHEM - Home

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Have you heard of the opening seen in this biography?:

Gurdjieff- See the movie, "Meetings with Remarkable Men" (re: overtone singing in film)




Gurdjieff- Meetings with Remarkable Men (overtone singing in film) - Overtone Music Network


...the opening scene where a competition occurred including a man singing overtones (not Asian throat singing).

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Bhaktajan: My re-collection was that the competition was to affect a change in colour of the Rocks/Dirt Hill ---that a change of the rock's colour would be visually seen ---it occurred by dint of the musical signing that was done. BTW, that's all I know about it and Gurdgieff.