Great at Prophecy, Stink at Timing?

Thomas

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Thomas I wish people would give more time to the core instead of almost all their time to the sideshow. I could accept organized religion a lot more if that were the case.....
So do I ...
 

Nick the Pilot

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"...before Christianity took hold, there were thousands of years where people believed in Norse Gods, Greek Gods, Egyptian Gods, Sumerian Gods and so on, and so on."

--> Some of us think that calling Jesus a deity is exactly the same thing, and is against the Ten Commandments. The "thousands of years" seem to be continuing.
 

A Cup Of Tea

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Ah. Gotcha. What I was trying to say was that before Christianity took hold, there were thousands of years where people believed in Norse Gods, Greek Gods, Egyptian Gods, Sumerian Gods and so on, and so on.

Those people believed in their gods as surely as people believe in the gods that reign today. Yet everyone is so sure their god(s) are the only Twu god(s). It is that certainty that I find exasperating.

Now I see, but don't fully agree. Many religions don't demand that they be seen as the only good, or even that they alone should be worshipped. When the Norse converted to Christianity they may have done so for many reasons but simply choosing 'the stronger god' may have been one of them. I definitely don't think they viewed religion or gods the same way as the present day Scandinavians.

The idea of a one true god feels very western and Abrahamistic to me.
 

Gordian Knot

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You are right, it is a very western and Abrahamistic. I am surrounded by this type of ideology so I do tend to view religion through this perspective. It is this perspective that I have to cope with on a daily basis. It is why I continually try to grasp the mental place where Christians put themselves.
 

Amica

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According to my religion (Islam), there were thousands of prophets pbut that came before Muhammad pbuh. The Noble Qur'an states:"We have certainly sent messengers before your time: Some of these We have mentioned to you, and some We have not mentioned." (40;78). Also: “Indeed, we sent in every community a messenger… “ (al-Nahl 16:36). “There was not any community except a Warner lived among them.” (Fatir 35:24). With time, the world communities were able to communicate in a faster manner, especially in our time. As the communication improved, so did the access to the monotheistic Message. Hence, in today's world there is no need for any more messengers and no one has an excuse of not knowing what the Message is about.

Only 25 Prophets pbut were mentioned by name in the Qur'an:
Adam
Idris (Enoch)
Nuh (Noah)
Hud
Saleh
Ibrahim (Abraham)
Isma'il (Ishmael)
Ishaq (Isaac)
Lut (Lot)
Ya'qub (Jacob)
Yousef (Joseph)
Shu'aib
Ayyub (Job)
Musa (Moses)
Harun (Aaron)
Dhu'l-kifl (Ezekiel)
Dawud (David)
Sulaiman (Solomon)
Ilias (Elias)
Al-Yasa (Elisha)
Yunus (Jonah)
Zakariyya (Zechariah)
Yahya (John)
'Isa (Jesus)
Muhammad
 

Thomas

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Many religions don't demand that they be seen as the only good, or even that they alone should be worshipped.
Well that's our Jewish heritage. The Jews were quite adamant that their God was the One, True God, and that all other gods were false gods, and not gods at all.

When Christianity emerged, the Greek speaking world was already well used to the idea of ontological monotheism. Plato had consigned the pantheon of Mount Olympus to history, and Platonism was easily baptised. Aristotle gave us a bit more of a problem, but polytheism was well passed its sell-by date in the West.

When the Norse converted to Christianity they may have done so for many reasons but simply choosing 'the stronger god' may have been one of them.
Indeed, but I reckon the rigours of Divine Justice ameliorated by Divine Mercy also had significant attraction.

The idea of a one true god feels very western and Abrahamistic to me.
I don't see why. Daoism, Hinduism, even Buddhism is, ontologically, monotheist.

What distinguishes the West is the idea of God as 'person'.

But surely, if one supposes that Union with the Divine is possible, then there has to be some common ground.
 

Thomas

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I am surrounded by this type of ideology so I do tend to view religion through this perspective. It is this perspective that I have to cope with on a daily basis. It is why I continually try to grasp the mental place where Christians put themselves.
Frankly, it seems to me that the ideology has little to do with Christianity, it all seems very Old Testament to me. I suppose the extreme Calvinism of the Puritan settlers, and their propensity for persecution, has deep roots.
 

A Cup Of Tea

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Indeed, but I reckon the rigours of Divine Justice ameliorated by Divine Mercy also had significant attraction.
Yes of course, I was simplifying things for arguments sake, as I was saying, there could have been many reasons to convert.

I don't see why. Daoism, Hinduism, even Buddhism is, ontologically, monotheist.
I think I was referring to the idea that other gods were blasphemy and false. As I understand the religions you mention they (can) still incorporate other deities.
 

Thomas

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Yes of course, I was simplifying things for arguments sake, as I was saying, there could have been many reasons to convert.
Oh, quite. One of the notable things about the early spread of Christianity was its adoption by high and low-born alike.

I think I was referring to the idea that other gods were blasphemy and false. As I understand the religions you mention they (can) still incorporate other deities.
That's true. Although, of course, they regard these alien deities as manifestations of their own. The West became increasingly less 'plastic' in this regard.
 

radarmark

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Great link wil! Seen the film? They showed it here in Yellow Springs. That is precisely the reason I differentiate between “Religion” and “religion”… The former indicates something stuck in the exoteric and temporal. The latter is esoteric and beyond space-time. By the way, GK, this is why your two original questions never bothered me. My concept of religion is very broad and “big tent”.
 

donnann

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"...before Christianity took hold, there were thousands of years where people believed in Norse Gods, Greek Gods, Egyptian Gods, Sumerian Gods and so on, and so on."

--> Some of us think that calling Jesus a deity is exactly the same thing, and is against the Ten Commandments. The "thousands of years" seem to be continuing.

Jesus was definitely a prehumen divine being who incarnated into the human egg. The written record of his life and the miracles occurring starting at his conception are eyewitness accounts of these facts. The question is who was Jesus prior to his incarnation? He never said he was god but did say he was gods son so it makes sense that he was actually Michael. All archangels are elohim. Elohim means the gods. You find this in jewish documentation and advanced studies. There is one god who created all of the gods and goddesses if you want to get more precise. These gods and goddesses that are sons and daughters of god are angelic beings such as Michael and Gabriel. In Daniel even Michael is referred to as a prince. In my opinion it is no form of blasphemy or violation of a 10 commandment to refer to deities as gods other than god himself. I only feel the commandment of having no other gods before me refers to the fact that there is only one god who created everyone to include the gods. Giving reverence to other gods by treating them as if they are above the one true god is a violation of the commandment. I also believe that commandment also refers to what god is. God is love and having a god that contradicts what god is would also be a violation of that commandment. If you really get down to it only the one true god has a name. In Hebrew its written YHVH and pronounced YAHOVEH. No other god has this name. Deities such has mihcael are elohim which is why every archangel has el at the end of their name. God is the god of the gods. In conclusion I think people have gotton so much into basic study they don't progress to advanced studies which lead to understanding of these things.
 

Aupmanyav

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--> If he came today, I think most people would not listen to his message. (There are a lot of religious people on the Internet nowadays that no one listens to.) I also think they would not recognize him as JC.
Why? He could have scientifically authenticated miracles. God is all powerful.
 
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