Peace

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Timotheus, Nov 15, 2015.

  1. Timotheus

    Timotheus New Member

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    peace,

    Hi my name is Timotheus, i am new, and looking forward to some good discussion on this forum. I am a believer of God and a submitter to him and a believer in his revelations including the Quran.

    peace
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Peace, namaste, asalam alekum timotheous
     
  3. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Welcome. When you say you are a believer n his revelations 'including' the Quran, this suggests other sources you accept as well. If so, what other sources do you believe in.
     
  4. Timotheus

    Timotheus New Member

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    I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Injeel? This is an English site.
     
  6. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    we've covered this enough times to know it means the Gospel.
    Salaam Allahikum wa Rahmutallah wa Barakaat,
    welcome, feel free to get into the discussions.

    in a way yes... certainly in parts they are revealed, a lot of human interaction in each though. However if it is your belief they are equally revealed, I look forward to discussing it with you in a more in depth talk.
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    No, we haven't... I would have had to look it up.,. There are new folks here who would also have to look it up....

    And which gospel is revealed?? And the Torah? Revealed? Doesn't the Quran make corrections and clarifications in both according to Islam?
     
  8. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    in general we believe parts of both are revealed... but what Timo has proposed sounds as if they are fully revealed as well, I find this contradictory, but willing to let him state his case.
     
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    What does revealed mean? The gospels are four separate books, largely supposed to be history of Jesus life and teachings, by people it appears never met him....but wrote down what they had heard over the years... Are you saying the quran indicates the four authors were all prophets?
     
  10. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    no, and quite frankly I'm astonished that you didn't know this. Our belief is that these authors (whoever they may be) were conveying information passed on to them, (IMO they were trying to convey the message that was revealed to Jesus (PBUH) to the best of their knowledge). Which means that some of the Gospel's text is "revealed" (in its original form), but as a whole it is not. Same with OT. One of the problems I have with Paul is he supposedly received revelation which would have made him a Prophet, or messenger (or both), of which he was not by any scholars I've heard. Same could be said about John of Revelations.
     
  11. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    BMCHmmm everyone who hears anything at all from G!d is a prophet?

    What is the difference between prophet and messenger?
     
  12. Timotheus

    Timotheus New Member

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    For one. Please don't be intolerant to words that you don't know. And it's ironic that you say this is an English site yet you greet me with namaste and assalamu alaiykum. Google thankfully uses all languages :) I use the word used by God in the Quran because to say I believe in the gospel(s) usually creates confusion. The four gospels in biblical cannon are obviously distorted and unoriginal. Although i do think there is likely some accurate information in them. Jesus and his disciples were speakers of Aramaic not Greek. Like I said I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel. Does this mean I believe that either one is intact or without addition our alteration. No it does not. Anyone who has seriously looked into the bible it's canonization and content etc cannot possibly be satisfied with believing it to be verbatim word of God. And the difference between prophet and messenger is that a prophet (Arabic: nabi) comes from a root word meaning to inform so a prophet informs us if information from God I.e. prophecy, revelation and a messenger (Arabic: rasool) means more or less someone who is sent by God. Muhammad is the last prophet but not the last messenger according to the Quran.
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    So to be clear you don't believe the Christian gospels, but you do believe the four books are obviously distorted and unoriginal and revealed to the authors by G!d.,..

    And yes this is an English site...and yes we like to learn and use Google.... However should you send us off clicking to understand your posts...

    Lastly...if you do not feel you deserve a friendly greeting... Or my meager attempt a welcome... I'll refrain.
     
  14. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    your answer seems inline with the Bahai'i view... I found somewhere where this was discussed
    http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/2482/is-muhammad-the-last-rasool-messenger

    can you think of any text which says anyone other than a prophet (or messenger) would receive direct revelation before Jesus (PBUH). Paul supposedly received it from Jesus (PBUH), to which he professed is God (although I can't remember where he outright says it). this is IMO of course
     
  15. Timotheus

    Timotheus New Member

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    to be clear @wil i would re-read my post, as opposed to paraphrasing it in your own words.
     
  16. Timotheus

    Timotheus New Member

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    and with all due respect @bigjonobody your link was a rubbish. 'scholars' have no authority to interpret the quran when it clearly contradicts them and their authority. the quran clearly says that after all the prophets have come a messenger will come to confirm what is with them. anotherwords after muhammad there will be more mesengers. it also says that 'o children of adam WHENEVER messengers come to you from among yourselves reciting to you my revelations'... which means that messengers will come after muhammad
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I apologize for snapping...was cornered elsewhere and came out swinging here...

    A not appropriate...
    B especially on a newbie
     
  18. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    do you mind citing what you are referring to?
     
  19. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Just so that I understand you correctly, you believe God's revelations came from all three books, Torah, Gospels (Bible) and Quran? If that is correct it is an interesting point of view. Look forward to hearing more.
     
  20. Timotheus

    Timotheus New Member

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    Just to be clear it's exactly what it says I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel and the Quran. The originals the injeel is not four human made and contradictory gospels written in a language that Jesus and his followers most probably did not even speak
     

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