Peace

[Timotheus]

peace,

Hi my name is Timotheus, i am new, and looking forward to some good discussion on this forum. I am a believer of God and a submitter to him and a believer in his revelations including the Quran.

peace

 

[wil]

Peace, namaste, asalam alekum timotheous

 

[Devils' Advocate]

Welcome. When you say you are a believer n his revelations 'including' the Quran, this suggests other sources you accept as well. If so, what other sources do you believe in.

 

[Timotheus]

I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel

 

[wil]

Injeel? This is an English site.

 

[BigJoeNobody]

Injeel? This is an English site.

we've covered this enough times to know it means the Gospel.

peace,

Hi my name is Timotheus, i am new, and looking forward to some good discussion on this forum. I am a believer of God and a submitter to him and a believer in his revelations including the Quran.

peace

Salaam Allahikum wa Rahmutallah wa Barakaat,
welcome, feel free to get into the discussions.

I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel

in a way yes... certainly in parts they are revealed, a lot of human interaction in each though. However if it is your belief they are equally revealed, I look forward to discussing it with you in a more in depth talk.

 

[wil]

we've covered this enough times to know it means the Gospel.

No, we haven't... I would have had to look it up.,. There are new folks here who would also have to look it up....

And which gospel is revealed?? And the Torah? Revealed? Doesn't the Quran make corrections and clarifications in both according to Islam?

 

[BigJoeNobody]

And which gospel is revealed?? And the Torah? Revealed? Doesn't the Quran make corrections and clarifications in both according to Islam?

in general we believe parts of both are revealed... but what Timo has proposed sounds as if they are fully revealed as well, I find this contradictory, but willing to let him state his case.

 

[wil]

What does revealed mean? The gospels are four separate books, largely supposed to be history of Jesus life and teachings, by people it appears never met him....but wrote down what they had heard over the years... Are you saying the quran indicates the four authors were all prophets?

 

[BigJoeNobody]

no, and quite frankly I'm astonished that you didn't know this. Our belief is that these authors (whoever they may be) were conveying information passed on to them, (IMO they were trying to convey the message that was revealed to Jesus (PBUH) to the best of their knowledge). Which means that some of the Gospel's text is "revealed" (in its original form), but as a whole it is not. Same with OT. One of the problems I have with Paul is he supposedly received revelation which would have made him a Prophet, or messenger (or both), of which he was not by any scholars I've heard. Same could be said about John of Revelations.

 

[wil]

BMCHmmm everyone who hears anything at all from G!d is a prophet?

What is the difference between prophet and messenger?

 

[Timotheus]

For one. Please don't be intolerant to words that you don't know. And it's ironic that you say this is an English site yet you greet me with namaste and assalamu alaiykum. Google thankfully uses all languages I use the word used by God in the Quran because to say I believe in the gospel(s) usually creates confusion. The four gospels in biblical cannon are obviously distorted and unoriginal. Although i do think there is likely some accurate information in them. Jesus and his disciples were speakers of Aramaic not Greek. Like I said I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel. Does this mean I believe that either one is intact or without addition our alteration. No it does not. Anyone who has seriously looked into the bible it's canonization and content etc cannot possibly be satisfied with believing it to be verbatim word of God. And the difference between prophet and messenger is that a prophet (Arabic: nabi) comes from a root word meaning to inform so a prophet informs us if information from God I.e. prophecy, revelation and a messenger (Arabic: rasool) means more or less someone who is sent by God. Muhammad is the last prophet but not the last messenger according to the Quran.

 

[wil]

So to be clear you don't believe the Christian gospels, but you do believe the four books are obviously distorted and unoriginal and revealed to the authors by G!d.,..

And yes this is an English site...and yes we like to learn and use Google.... However should you send us off clicking to understand your posts...

Lastly...if you do not feel you deserve a friendly greeting... Or my meager attempt a welcome... I'll refrain.

 

[BigJoeNobody]

For one. Please don't be intolerant to words that you don't know. And it's ironic that you say this is an English site yet you greet me with namaste and assalamu alaiykum. Google thankfully uses all languages I use the word used by God in the Quran because to say I believe in the gospel(s) usually creates confusion. The four gospels in biblical cannon are obviously distorted and unoriginal. Although i do think there is likely some accurate information in them. Jesus and his disciples were speakers of Aramaic not Greek. Like I said I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel. Does this mean I believe that either one is intact or without addition our alteration. No it does not. Anyone who has seriously looked into the bible it's canonization and content etc cannot possibly be satisfied with believing it to be verbatim word of God. And the difference between prophet and messenger is that a prophet (Arabic: nabi) comes from a root word meaning to inform so a prophet informs us if information from God I.e. prophecy, revelation and a messenger (Arabic: rasool) means more or less someone who is sent by God. Muhammad is the last prophet but not the last messenger according to the Quran.

your answer seems inline with the Bahai'i view... I found somewhere where this was discussed
http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/2482/is-muhammad-the-last-rasool-messenger

Hmmm everyone who hears anything at all from G!d is a prophet?

can you think of any text which says anyone other than a prophet (or messenger) would receive direct revelation before Jesus (PBUH). Paul supposedly received it from Jesus (PBUH), to which he professed is God (although I can't remember where he outright says it). this is IMO of course

 

[Timotheus]

to be clear @wil i would re-read my post, as opposed to paraphrasing it in your own words.

 

[Timotheus]

and with all due respect @bigjonobody your link was a rubbish. 'scholars' have no authority to interpret the quran when it clearly contradicts them and their authority. the quran clearly says that after all the prophets have come a messenger will come to confirm what is with them. anotherwords after muhammad there will be more mesengers. it also says that 'o children of adam WHENEVER messengers come to you from among yourselves reciting to you my revelations'... which means that messengers will come after muhammad

 

[wil]

I apologize for snapping...was cornered elsewhere and came out swinging here...

A not appropriate...
B especially on a newbie

 

[BigJoeNobody]

and with all due respect @bigjonobody your link was a rubbish. 'scholars' have no authority to interpret the quran when it clearly contradicts them and their authority. the quran clearly says that after all the prophets have come a messenger will come to confirm what is with them. anotherwords after muhammad there will be more mesengers. it also says that 'o children of adam WHENEVER messengers come to you from among yourselves reciting to you my revelations'... which means that messengers will come after muhammad

do you mind citing what you are referring to?

 

[Devils' Advocate]

I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel

Just so that I understand you correctly, you believe God's revelations came from all three books, Torah, Gospels (Bible) and Quran? If that is correct it is an interesting point of view. Look forward to hearing more.

 

[Timotheus]

Just to be clear it's exactly what it says I believe that God revealed the Torah and the injeel and the Quran. The originals the injeel is not four human made and contradictory gospels written in a language that Jesus and his followers most probably did not even speak