Absolute-ness means...

Discussion in 'Eastern Religions and Philosophies' started by bhaktajan, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

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    I invite anyone to pick a topic, from below, or in contrast to a topic below, to discuss:

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    Absolute-ness means "A" is differs from "B" there is A & B plus many other letters.
    Each is absolutely different from the other --'spell-check' proves that.

    The letters are place on a blank Sheet. The word is written by a person for a person.

    On one hand I, subjectively, can surrender to whom ever I choose and do whateverI can or manage to do and garner as much as possible for my own benefit ---in all circumstances.

    OTOH, there is the Concept of Absolute. Absolute reality exists.

    By 'descending-Knowledge' we are shown Absolute Truths by the Texts, Guru, Sadhu-sanga & paramatma
    ---while we pursue our self-motivated goals relative to our station in life,
    this is a universal & absolute pastime for all living being & non-animated elements.

    ABSOLUTE REALITY means all living being & non-animated elements engage in sanatana-dharma aka sva-dharma.
    Such duties/activities are NOT RELATIVE to time, circumstance & desires
    ---such acts are relative to ones existence.

    Merging into Brahman does not constitute Absolute Dharma it is a relative salvation.
    Absolute knowledge is enlightening simply by 'Knowing the Facts'--- here is Knowledge that the Vedas have hidden until recently:

    What the Upanishads describe as the impersonal Brahman is actually the effulgence of Lord Krishna's body, and the Lord known as the Supersoul is actually Lord Krishna's localized plenary portion. Lord Krishna the Supreme Personality of Godhead, full with six opulences. He is the Absolute Truth, and no other truth is greater than or equal to Him.

    Lord Krishna enjoys by manifesting Himself as the spiritual masters, the devotees, the diverse energies, the incarnations and the plenary portions. They are all six in one.

    The Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna, who is eternally an adolescent, is the primeval Lord, the source of all incarnations. He expands Himself in these six categories of forms to establish His supremacy throughout the universe.

    The Personality of Godhead manifests Himself in six different features:
    (1) bhava,
    (2) vaibhava,
    (3) empowered incarnations,
    (4) partial incarnations,
    (5) childhood and
    (6) boyhood.

    The Personality of Godhead Krishna, whose permanent feature is adolescence, enjoys His transcendental proclivities by performing pastimes in these six forms. In these six features there are unlimited divisions of the Personality of Godhead’s forms. The jivas, or living beings, are differentiated parts and parcels of the Lord. They are all diversities of the one without a second, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

    It is said in Bhagavad-gita that after many, many lives of philosophical research the wise man ultimately comes to the point of knowing that Supreme Personality of Godhead, is everything, and therefore he surrenders unto Him. Such serious students in philosophical research are rare because they are very great souls.

    If by philosophical research one cannot come to the point of understanding the Supreme Person, then his task is not finished. His search in knowledge is still to be continued until he comes to the point of understanding the Supreme Lord in devotional service.

    The opportunity for direct touch with the Personality of Godhead is given in Bhagavad-gita, where it is also said that those who take to other processes, namely the processes of philosophical speculation and mystic yoga practice, have much trouble. After many, many years of much trouble, a yogi or wise philosopher may come to Him, but his path is very troublesome, whereas the path of devotional service is easy for everyone.

    One can achieve the result of wise philosophical speculation simply by discharging devotional service, and unless one reaches the point of understanding the Personality of Godhead by his mental speculation, all his research work is said to be simply a labor of love. The ultimate destination of the wise philosopher is to merge in the impersonal Brahman, but that Brahman is the effulgence of the Supreme Person.

    The Lord says in Bhagavad-gita (14.27), brahmano hi pratishthaham amrita-syavya yasya ca: “I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is indestructible and is the supreme bliss.” The Lord is the supreme reservoir of all pleasure, including Brahman pleasure; therefore, one who has unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead is said to be already realized in impersonal Brahman and Paramatma.



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    The three progressive stages of yogic enlightenment:I)
    Brahman-Realization, ---the impersonal manifestation of God, nothingness, the field, the void; Brahman is also used as a general reference for God, et al.

    II)
    Paramatma Realization, the presence of god as the nucleus of every inanimate spark and particle of matter and energy in the universe, and also god as present in every animate individual soul as the witnessing 'Supersoul'—hence the word, 'Param (super) atma' (soul)
    ________________________________________________________________Note: Conscience living beings are capable, by birth-right, of progressing through the following 5 stages of spiritual maturity:

    A) anna-maya = recognize the manifest mercy of god as 'food'.
    B) prana-maya = recognize god as 'living force in all life forms'.
    C) Sankya-maya=recognize god as 'thinking, willing, and feeling'.
    D) vigyana-maya= 'mind and ego seen different from the soul'.
    E) ananda-maya= 'all-blissful nature' Via prema-bhakti-seva. (loving devotional service to Krishna
    ________________________________________________________________


    III)Bhagavan Realization, God as he is reveal in the Vedas of India—(krsnas tu bhagavan svayam . . . )

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    Vedas = Knowledge. Knowledge is defined in the Vedas as the ability to discriminate the difference between matter and spirit.

    The famous first verse of the Vedanta-sutra: "om atha-atho brahma-jigyansah"
    Now, therefore, in the human form of life we should inquire as to nature of Brahman (the Supreme Personality of Godhead).

    God =The original Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna who is infinitely full in all opulences ("Bhagavan"), specifically:
    God =the original person who possesses all Beauty, Fame, Intelligence, Power, Wealth, and Renunciation;
    also,
    God =the first person, with his own eternal and transcendental name, fame, form, personality, paraphernalia, entourage and pastime.
    God's body =the absolute form of 'Sat-Chit-Ananda'—Eternity. Cognizance, and Bliss.

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    The 5 topics of discussion addressed in the Bhagavad-gita ---Three are eternal, one is illusory:
    1 Isvara - (Controller) - God
    2 Jiva-atma – (Indiviual Soul) - Living Entity
    3 Prakriti – Energy (Material & Spiritual)
    4 Kala – “Time”

    And one is transient:
    5 Karma – Action [a) artha—wealth, abundance b) kama—enjoyment, pleasure
    c) dharma—work, duty].

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    Definition of 'Yoga' =to link up to, to re-unite (also see entomology of the word 'religion'.)

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    The three stages of yoga practice:
    A) Karma-yoga, yoga of action.
    B) Sankya-yoga, yoga of analytical study of scripture.
    C) Bhakti-yoga, yoga of Devotion to Krishna

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    The 4 famous defects of the conditioned soul
    [aka, a spirit-soul in the material world, of repeated birth & death (aka, cycle of samsara)]:

    “The four flaws of the conditioned soul are mistakes; illusioned; cheating; imperfect senses”

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    The Two Schools of Indian Hindu Metaphysics:
    a]the Theist—Vaishnava devotee of Krishna (bhagavata school) &
    b]the Impersonalist---the seeker of release from the individual ego and attain refuge and thus merge in the primodial impersonal state of nirvana** (sunyavada school).

    **Bhaktajan’s “Theistic” note here is: The individual vector point of the soul is 'active by nature', thus nirvana is not eternal.

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    Vegetarianism is all about ‘AHIMSA—non-violence”. Not about our sentiments.
    Meatless living is all about warding-off bad (ugra-) karma for humans.
    It’s not about compassion for the animals welfare but about the welfare of
    children being indoctrinated into a life based on killing inorder to live up to a false standard of ‘living’.

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    "Maya":
    the Cosmic Material Energy' recognized as a field of temporary matter and energy in flux,
    whence, the soul appears, to lord it over as best as can be had.
    All the whilst identifying with the present body, which was afforded by the fruits of prior actions.

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    Karma & Reincarnation:
    Karma means, 'action'. All living creatures Eat/sleep/mate/defend
    ---one must rise above the mundane order of life and death.
    We are all destined to take repeated births in various bodies until we are
    re-acquainted with The grace of Mukunda (a name for Krishna---the sole Bestower of
    Liberation from the material ocean of repeated births and deaths—since time immemorial).
    This is done by approaching the top experts in the world authorized to instruct
    novices in the science of Bhakti-yoga.

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    The cow is sacred because:
    the cow is the quintessentially perfect species for agrarian society—the husband of the cow ‘the bull’ is the best beast of burden for farm life; the cow gives milk, cheese(s), yogurt, butter, panir [curd], ghee, ice cream, whip cream, caramel sweets, medicinal urine, fuel, fertilizer. Oxen, leather.

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    Our B-Rabbinical breatheren, the Jews, the descendents of Judah, who make Koshering of meat a religious ritual are the authorities that we must go to argue with, armed with scriptural references, to convince the Biblical scholars of the extent of the consequences of meat eating; especially the cow.

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    Charles Dickens’ 19th Century English novel “Oliver Twist” [about the orphan boy named Oliver] starts with the Schoolmaster of the orphan-asylum arriving at the home of the new foster parents, inorder to the retrieve Oliver whose tantrums had made trouble for himself and his newest adopting parents. Upon arriving at the home, the Schoolmaster unlocked the closet whence the boy was arrested by the parent. As he drags the boy back to the orphanage the Schoolmaster scolded the parents thus, “I told you not to feed the boy meat, I told you to feed him porridge”.

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    "Hare Krishna" is the mantra chanted by "Hare Krishna" devotees.
    "Hare Krishna" devotees, tenets, dogma, scriptures are all ultra-orthodox Vedic traditions.
    "Hare Krishna" devotees are orthodox Hindus ---and that is what they preach.
    Yes, they are the first to proselytize authentic old-school orthodox Hinduism –since the dawn of creation ---esp outside India.
     
  2. Ruh Ishq

    Ruh Ishq Member

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    You are wrong... absoluteness means a and b come from same source.

    You are very addicted to knowledge, but truth has not happened to you, it is quite clear...

    I hope it will one day.
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Ruh, meh...

    You are wrong... That is absolutely not discussion.

    Speaking about others and not the topic is the kinda thing that gets one tossed around here...

    You had over a dozen ways to state your point without being condescending. It appears (to me) you chose the wrong one.
     
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  4. Ruh Ishq

    Ruh Ishq Member

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    I have attempted to remind him of the purpose of religion, I am sorry that is unacceptable here.

    It won't happen again?
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    No, since you arrived, (been back). You've called him wrong, and spoke down to others.

    If you'll stick to discussing your "opinions" on topics and not.others character in condescending tones...that is acceptable here.
     
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  6. Ruh Ishq

    Ruh Ishq Member

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    I cannot speak down to others, I simply do not go out of my way to be humble.

    My interest is being utterly authentic, human.

    He is using Aristotelian logic applied to Krishna, it doesn't work.

    Further, such discussions as are made here help mind to avoid dissolution.

    Avadhut Gita is a Hindu text written by an Avatar of Vishnu that essentially spends 40 pages telling the mind to shut up.

    You can judge my assertions based on your own moralism, but I have spoken because I am familiar with his tradition.

    I do not respect jiva, its annihilation is moksha - jivanmukti.

    It is very important to understand that for those who preach videhamukti, it hasn't yet happened for them, they are speaking on knowledge not knowing.

    This seems to be the case with Hare Krishnas.

    They are very scholarly, but few are actually arriving at the goal.

    It is frustrating because they claim to be ancient, orthodox Hinduism, but their primary text is written between 1200 and 1400 AD - the Srimad Bhagavatam.

    Further, Bhakti is not Vedic at all, the first Upanishad to even use the word is from 300 AD or so and even then it was not used the way this group intends. It is almost certain that this is actually the result of Islam conquering India.

    I hope he will read more authentic texts like Ashtavakra Gita and Avadhut Gita because these can enlighten.

    No amount of acquisition of information can do that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Is not reading texts aquisition information?
     
  8. Ruh Ishq

    Ruh Ishq Member

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    Read the texts I have listed and tell me if you acquired any information.

    http://www.wearesentience.com/uploads/7/2/9/3/7293936/avadhuta-gita.pdf

    http://www.holybooks.com/wp-content/uploads/Ashtavakra-Gita-ebook.pdf

    It is the basic difference between a mystic and an intellectual... the mystic speaks to create an environment where you can encounter truth, an intellectual tries to justify belief logically.

    A mystic does not wish to convince you, he knows truth is available to you too.

    More importantly, he knows truth isn't mental... although mind can be used in its service.

    Ultimately, though, he has to get your mind out of the way.

    It is itself the veil between you and the divine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  9. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    No time to read, listen, or understand, I am too busy telling people how wrong they are.
     
  10. Ruh Ishq

    Ruh Ishq Member

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    Why do you think I didn't read and understand what he said?

    I would be unable to say it is wrong if I hadn't?

    Move along wil, you are being childish.
     
  11. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Please don't tell other posters to move along.
    If you write all the nonsense you do about people, you should read what people have to say about you.
     
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  12. Ruh Ishq

    Ruh Ishq Member

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    smh, I could have sworn there used to be decent conversations on this site...

    Apparently I just walked back into high school.
     
  13. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

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    Krishna is a Shepard. Do you know this Ruh-I?
     
  14. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

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    What is absolute? What is not absolute?
     
  15. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Sorry, but he got banned, again. Hopefully Lunitik can answer when he gets back again.
     
  16. bhaktajan

    bhaktajan Active Member

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    It is sad to me that the chances that that was Lunitik (risen from the either) and that he'd get banned was nearly an absolute sure thing. Who'd of thunk it?
     
  17. Samana Johann

    Samana Johann (Not a member, just a guest)

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    Indeed is not easy to see one own deeds or things that reflects our self.

    Anyway, what is the topic about? Its really not clear what the questioner likes to ask if he likes to ask or tell.

    So what is absolutness? Unchanging, not subject of decay, with it free from suffering, free of the burden holding it for being a self?
     
  18. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, but can we comprehend this Absolute?

    If one accepts given traditional cosmologies, the answer is no, in as much as that which is absolute is 'above' and 'beyond' all — it transcends everything — it is without form, it is unknowable (in the common sense) because it cannot be defined or categorised in anything other than abstract terms. There is nothing to 'know' bcause there is no object of knowledge (which would immediately set up the dichotomy of 'this and that').

    So the real 'Absolute' exists byond all manifestation, be that 'concrete' matter or concepts in mind.

    Well 'self-motivated' is a matter of degree. It may not contradict the ultimate goal of the Absolute.

    In the Christian Tradition it is held that union with the Absolute is available in all places, at all times, to all peoples, and requires nothing more than 'a change of heart' (metanoia). It is not limited to the philosophically-inclined, or rather 'very great souls' need not be philosophers.

    I would say love transcends mental speculation — some understand God perfectly but would be dismissed as 'simple' or 'naive' and declare 'philosophy' is beyond them.

    While the 'philosopher' tends to regard the philosophers' way as the way, this is itself relative to the individual, and relative to world matters. That someone cannot speak with erudition about the nature of the Godhead does not mean they do not know that nature in a far more 'real' way that someone who can expound on the subject at great length.

    Speech is silver, but silence is golden.

    There is a tendency in the West for 'the philosopher' or 'the esoterist' to assume an unconscious elitism; to assume the way of the gnostic or the jnani is somehow better that the way of the bhakta, or that the bhakta's realisation will only be partial, whereas the jnani will be more. It's a fallacy.

    The question is, if the Absolute transcends all forms, all modes of being, all manner of expression, all mental determinations ... then the Absolute will transcend 'the way of knowledge', in that knowledge will reach its limit, it will end up like a searchlight into a void.

    It is probably the case that all traditions account for this, more or less, in their teachings.
     
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  19. Samana Johann

    Samana Johann (Not a member, just a guest)

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    Is not a question but acctually a good vision.

    No, there is actually only one teacher who does not teach a kind of being, not-being, becoming or not-becoming, neither Self nor Not-Self.

    As for the searchlight, Thomas: Where There is Passion
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  20. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea An ordinary cup of tea

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    Hi Samana, we usually avoid speaking for others or their tradition. I understand that you have the position that you know enough to speak on these topics, but if there is a dispute on the nature of a Tradition it is a topic on it's own. Perhaps it should be discussed in the corresponding corner of the forum.
     
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