Am I a Christian?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by usernamed, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    "Not really. I'm with the majority, by definition not an elite. I think it's rather elitist to assume scholars don't know what they're talking about, that such-and-such is right and everyone else is wrong ... I'm afraid you're in the elitist position here. You alone here know the truth, the rest of us have been deluded by an institutional conspiracy to hide the truth."

    IE
    Safety in numbers.
    Popularity of opinion (peer pressure/review)
    Im not doing this to get paid.
    Truth vs get paid hmmmm



    "Yep, which is why everything they say is crossed checked and evaluated by rigorous peer review, before anyone says they're right."

    Sounds quite cosy everyone patting eachother on the back....hey Thomas...dont rate your thesis..."well I wont rate yours"...get out and join Eisenman hehehe..
    No field testers on here pal, just everyday Joe trying to find out for himself....David and Goliath?


    "Because most of what you point to is not factual?"

    Im not trying to insult your intelligence though. Im simply in disagreement to the scholar arguement because its a closed shop. People who have nothing to hide generally are not the first to run away easily. Only saying.


    "Yes, more than anyone else. A scholars work is not accepted if the evidence does not back it up, whereas the sources you've quoted, I've shown to be misreadings if not factually wrong."

    See now I can accept that.
    I see no problem being wrong where I stand to learn the truth about something. Shouldn't that be the ultimate goal before obfuscating history etc..
    Peer reviews generally come across someting akin to keeping your competition tamed and much like references might usually not be given negatively by an ex employer so to speak it just doesnt sit right with me. I have no problem saying so.

    "And claiming because there's nothing there 'clearly' shows a cover-up holds no water at all."

    I answered your questions, that is all I expect to do when asked respectfully, Im not going to convince anyone while I am still open minded to learn something, I see this as an opportunity to learn from people who clearly know more about a given subject matter than myself, I wouldn't hold it against anyone though, how else can I test my own beliefs or find out how misled I might be, far more dangerous to protect a lie and covet the truth, I think people are not used to having to answer for their own beliefs and that is why I find the scholarly arguement a false one, because Im not doing this to keep my bank balance topped up or in this for some bs materialistic career and surely any group of like minded individuals seek unity in their work not discord....academia seems to throw life long partnerships together....or are all the major new start ups in disagreement with that Fact? Thinktanks and forums with one man with one idea....not going to work is it.
    If you have a school friend who works in publishing become a writer type thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  2. usernamed

    usernamed Member

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    No need. Most people know its hokum. The ofthers refuse to see the truth.


    Well whoever you're following patently is :D

    You don't seem to offer much in compliments to anyone or any self reliant individual who can think for himself and might wish to become more fully informed, I don't mean to come accross harsh but that is simply the impression you give me, especially towards anyone who is prepared to take a bit of flack in disagreement. Some fish like to live in close tight nit school of thought. Survival mechanism. I fully understand that. I found Eisenman's thesis different, I don't neccessarily agree with everything he says but I found it refreshing in the face of what I normally get to hear. I asked a woman I met at a shelter who had started volunteering with us and I asked her what her beliefs were, she said she was. Christian, so I thought I would take the opportunity to ask her how she defines Christianity....you know what she said?
    "I just pick out all the best parts and go with that"(!!) admittedly she could of meant the salvation and other things perhaps joy and love etc but she couldnt offer anything else, I know she is not reflective of all Christians but
    It made me think of Hosea 4:6
    Makes me sad.

    Shame it seems to be me debating two other people and one other with nothing good/helpful to add, being on my own trying to draw out the best from just two people to be fair on CORBET is going to fizzle out far quicker. Anyway. Enjoyed our discussion and I have learned quite a few things about Paul. Thanks again.
    :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    Yeah, thanks for flashing us that brief look of your heart if hearts, too.
     
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    I always learn from @Thomas

    Like all good scholars he presents his case and lays out his reasons and evidence. He says it once, and if the evidence is ignored or dismissed, requests credible counter evidence with proper references.

    Scholars and scientists take care of the sewerage and provide transport and electricity. No-one is interested or paid to protect some great conspiracy around Paul and the Dead Sea Scrolls. Conspiracy theories abound with the internet.

    Dismissing the evidence of scholars and experts, without providing at least a reasonable sniff of counter evidence, isn't any argument at all. Quoted scripture out of context doesn't count.

    Good luck with your own Christian splinter cult. Perhaps others will subscribe. It's not convincing enough to keep my interest.
     
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  5. StevePame

    StevePame Administrator

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    Sigh. This is why I keep the filters so high. Because just when you think it is fine, someone posts antisemitic hate links...

    If you all find other stuff that needs to be removed, please report it. Thanks.
     
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  6. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    @Cino picked it up by instinct. It was there all the time, hiding in plain sight. Well caught Cino.
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Straw manning the opposition is not an argument, and this post is largely straw-man.
     
  9. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    But just because it's different, is that sufficient? What if it's different, because it's wrong?

    Here's some others to consider:

    The whole Jesus thing was a myth based on the Teacher of Righteousness (Dupont-Sumner, 1952). Or that Jesus actually existed, but lived with the Essenes and built a Teacher of Righteousness myth about himself (Edmund Wilson, 1955)

    The first Christians were members of a fertility cult on hallucinogenic mushrooms (John Allegro, 1970)

    That the Teacher of Righteousness was James the brother of Jesus (Eisenman 1986)

    Michael Baigent and Richard Leigh, famous for their works on the 'conspiracies surrounding the Knights Templars' (stuff Dan Brown lifted to write The DaVinci Code), also wrote a book about another Catholic conspiracy, this one to suppress "something that might just conceivably demolish the entire edifice of Christian teaching and belief" (Baigent and Leigh 1991).

    Gruber and Kirsten show how the scrolls, and subsequently Christianity, are based on Buddhist teachings.

    Hosking wrote a book showing how Jesus was an Essene who led the Jewish forces who killed themselves at Masada.

    Barbara Thiering wrote a book close to Eisenman's, but in hers the Teacher of Righteousness was John the Baptist.


    We had another Pauline Conspiracy theorist active here for a while:
    https://www.interfaith.org/articles/pauline-conspiracy/
    You might want to check him out. A different conspiracy to Nasser, though ...
     
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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    It's made me interested in going more into the Dead Sea Scrolls. There's an updated 2010 version of 'The Dead Sea Scrolls Today' by James C. Vanderkam, published by Erdmans SPCK.

    He's a professor of Hebrew Scriptures at Notre Dame University and a member of the international team charged with editing and publishing the scrolls.

    I've got the earlier 1994 version. He mentions Eisenman, but seems to think that dating and opinion don't give weight to Eisenman's ideas.

    https://www.eerdmans.com/Mobile/Products/6435/the-dead-sea-scrolls-today.aspx
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  11. AlanT

    AlanT New Member

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    On the one hand Christians are supposed to believe that the bible is the inspired word of god, so by rejecting chunks of it, you are not a Christian.
    On the other hand you are cherry picking parts of the bible just like most Christians, so you too are a Christian.
    Tricky, isn't it?
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Alan, we once had a fellow here whose moniker was Devils Advocate, contrasting his posts to yours I'd say you excel at the name.

    Care to expound on your agenda so we all may be on the same page?

    So far I have a vision of the proverbial bull in a China shop
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Some, but if you belong to the Roman Catholics, the Orthodox Patriarchies, or many branches of Anglicanism, the treatment of the Bible is neither one nor the other of your opinions.
     

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