If it were not so, would you still believe?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by KnowSelf, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    A test of faith, if all evidence were contrary to your belief would hold fast to your ideas of God and faith or would you take the path of least resistance?

    I cannot speculate the future. It is enough for me to dwell in presence tense ✝️than to live otherwise.

    The law of reality states as each person learns and moves forward in life so do the intensity of the challenges a person faces. This cannot be any other way. For this is how we learn and move forward in life , May the circle be unbroken.
     
  2. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Are you asking if we all floated and rivers flowed uphill would we believe in gravity?

    Or if we learned the speed of sound and light switched would we stick to the old formulas?

    Or if when the poles switch again, will we orient our compasses the same?

    Of course not, if there were repeatable,.demonstrable evidence to the contrary!

    Hence I am a nontheistic agnostic christian panenetheist unitic.

    (I don't believe in a literal OT G!d, am open to discovery, think Jesus teachings worthwhile, some sort of worthiness in everything and that higher self in everyone, and enjoy circumambulating the underlying metaphysics of scripture.)
     
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  3. OrtaYol

    OrtaYol Active Member

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    Nope
     
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  4. Beautiful

    Beautiful Member

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    beliefs are for children. children believe in ghost and monsters...but its out of lack of knowledge, that is all
     
  5. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    Child of God, I believe God
     
  6. Beautiful

    Beautiful Member

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    You believe god?

    What do you believe god about?
     
  7. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    As a seeker who found the unexpected, I fall into the "least resistance" camp. But you make it sound a bit negative. My experience was one of great relief rather than grudging conforming with the inevitable.


    To stop believing some of what others are telling me is easier than to stop believing in some of my own thoughts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  8. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    I believe God about myself
     
  9. Truthseeker9

    Truthseeker9 Member

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    You have to go with the evidence.
     
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  10. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    the evidence meaning what is revealed and understood. Humans often misinterpret evidence based on fear, social manipulation and mass frenzy; Witch trials, so-called sorcery for medicinal purposes.
     
  11. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    The evidence that the Universe is around 13.8 billion years old, for instance? As against 6000 years? There are people out there saying that the fossil record was all laid down by Noah's flood. Because they must take the Bible literally. Against all the evidence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
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  12. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    We all know where the "13.8 billion" figure comes from..
    ..and I assume the 6000 year figure comes from the "Genesis literalists"

    This sort of evidence is not helpful in finding "the complete truth" .. time belongs to G-d.
     
  13. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Where do we all know it comes from?

    Yes. Young Earth creationists, who insist their scripture must be literally true, every word.

    Ok, so how do you go with the age of the earth? Science says something over 4 billion years. Do you reject that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  14. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    I do not reject the science. I don't find "billions of years" meaningful.
    What is a year? One orbit of the earth around the sun?
    ..or is it measured by "radioactive clock" .. or pendulum .. or ask a dinosaur? ;)
     
  15. KnowSelf

    KnowSelf Active Member

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    And why does the age of the earth matter?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020 at 1:47 AM
  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    It is a unit of time decided by consensus and then used as an international standard measure. Like a kilometre, or a volt, or a degree centigrade. There are caesium clocks now that can measure the difference in time passing between the roof and the floor.
    It shouldn't, I suppose. But if I need to insist that my scripture is right and the geology is wrong I will just be turning 21st Century people away from my 'God' by insisting they believe the scripture over the obvious evidence?

    "You must believe every word of my scripture as literally true children; don't question because that means you don't believe God -- and that means you will burn in hell."

    Even as a young child I remember thinking: I like God and Jesus, but I'm not buying all that other sort of stuff sir, thanks very much!

    It's a bit like looking at a river or mountain or something, and waving a map insisting: "It's not pictured here on my map, therefore it doesn't exist, even though I'm staring straight at it with my own eyes."
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020 at 8:14 AM
  17. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    Yes .. and how do we know what this "unit of time" means?
    Of course, we can observe something moving through space. We then have velocity and acceleration and so on.
    However, do we assume that time is linear over these billions of years .. why should it be?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020 at 11:26 AM
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  18. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Active Member

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    Exactly, it doesn't .. it means little .. it is an argument used by atheists to show that the Bible is "wrong".
    The Bible iis not there to educate us scientifically .. there are plenty of other books that have that intention :)

    Atheists, of course, are more likely to see time as an absolute phenomenon.
    They would consider Bible verses such as "a year as you measure is as 1000 years for G-d" as poppycock

    Time & space is our "reality" on this mortal journey, but have no doubt, that it is only a perception.
    Einstein recognised that. The passing of time is something that we experience.
    We can observe our universe, and make theories etc. etc. but we cannot escape this "reality" until death.
    "If I could put time in a bottle" .. time belongs to G-d .. it is HIS bottle :)
     
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  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    How do you know when to catch your bus?

    What I'm saying is that some people -- not you -- are happy to take the science that serves them, the cell phones and power supply, etc -- but reject the science they don't like because it doesn't comply with literal scripture.

    It's a discussion that is always going on across all sorts of faith websites.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020 at 11:58 AM
  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Rude insulting aethists vs smug literal creationists who keep shifting the goalposts. Never an end to it.

    At least on some forums. Not here. IO is different, imo.

    As with many other things it's the extremists on both sides who make life hard in this world for ordinary folks, imo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020 at 12:26 PM
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