CORONA VIRUS

Discussion in 'Health' started by RJM Corbet, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Moderator

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    What I call "trickle up" economics.

    You might be familiar with "trickle down" economics/"Reaganomics", but instead of giving the wealthy the fiscal rewards, give them to the working class and the lower-middle class, especially those with family depending on them. Include truly essential people, like medical personnel/teachers/food service/postal workers/etc., and the money will (eventually) get to those who don't really need the financial boost (like Elon Musk, the Kochs, etc.) The working- and lower-middle class personnel can stay at home if they need to without having to worry about losing their residences.

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Oh yes and this would be the intelligent system: rather those who want to stay at home can be provided for, not that those who need to go out and be productive, should be prevented?

    And it works around in the end to niche communities being accepted and accommodated -- but it breaks down when all those various niche communities, in their myriads, start issuing their own non-negotiable unilateral demands upon the society at large to conform to their own various niche standards and mores, and voice and language?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Quite ...

    It seems to me the history of recessions relies on greed and mendacity at the top which brings about the crash — in the US case the sub-prime market is a case in point. Especially when one considers thousand lost jobs, thousands lost homes, the bankers were bailed out and not one conviction of anyone who was seriously instrumental in the affair.

    In the UK we have the perfect storm of Brexit and COVID. Between those two, Tory Party friends, colleagues and donors have made and continue to make £billions in dubious contract awards, and now 'emergency measures' means there is no oversight of contracts awarded (and no formal tendering process) and billions have so far been given to suspect companies with no track-record in providing PPE who have, to date, procured either sub-standard materials or nothing at all.

    All of which could have been funnelled into the economy for those actually in need.
     
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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  5. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    The consequence for other NHS patients:

    10 million estimated NHS waiting list by the end of 2020, up from 4.2 million at the start of the pandemic.

    40% rise in heart attack deaths in April -- the month after lockdown.

    2800 heart attack and stroke deaths amongst under 65s in March and April -- a 15% rise.

    12% of endoscopies for bowel cancer being performed against the pre covid average.

    66% fall in hospital admissions for chemotherapy in April.

    173 000 fall in admissions for common conditions between March and June 2020.

    110 000 minimum number of patients waiting a year for NHS treatment -- almost 100-fold rise since February.

    540 000 people waiting for trauma and orthopaedic treatment such as knee and hip replacements in August -- a 10% rise on 2019.

    10 million visits to the dentist hit by delays due to the pandemic.
     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    OK —

    But do balance that with the fact that since 2010 the conservatives have been defunding the NHS to run services down to strengthen their argument for privatisation as the only viable solutions to its future. So what you're seeing is a service crippled in a crisis because of a particular ideology. 17,000 beds lost. 43,000 nurse deficit. Budget cuts across the board. Services being discreetly sold off.

    Remember the furore when a picture was published of a child lying on a makeshift bed of coats on a Leeds hospital floor? Or the traffic-jam of people on trolleys in corridors waiting to be seen? Or ambulances in Norfolk queuing outside A&E for 90 minutes? All before COVID.

    +++

    But what is your solution?

    To NOT treat the elderly?
     
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  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Of course not. But to adjust the system and provide the means to encourage the elderly to shield themselves, not to force the rest of the population to stay at home?
     
  8. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Busses go past me half empty but displaying 'bus full' signs, and the majority of travellers (here in South Devon) are elderly retired people travelling on free bus passes. It's infuriating to working people who have to travel.
     
  9. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Yes .. health care has been approaching crisis for a number of years now, but not SOLELY due to underinvestment.
    Our health service is primarily paid for by public money. It is possible to spend an ever increasing amount, due to cost of new technology and drugs etc.

    We have also been experiencing increasing bouts of viral illness in winter months .. covid being the last straw. It is not just the UK that is experiencing problems, so I don't accept that underinvestment is the main cause.

    Increasing disease is just one aspect of this modern era .. climate catastrophes and civil strife are also becoming very concerning :(
     
  10. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    It is certainly a problem. I have hardly used public transport since March. My senior railcard has been binned.

    Mmm .. it means spending a lot more on social services. That is the crux of the matter, I would say.
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Yep, my railcard's gone. And it looks like my Oyster travel card is going, a political move to punish the Labour mayor of London.

    Yep, and precious little chance of that happening.
     
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    According to The Lancet, "a worrying shift is emerging in the demographic of COVID-19 cases towards individuals aged younger than 40 years."

    It's the rest of the population which is having an impact on those waiting times, not necessarily the old.

    Analysis of figures between Feb and July show an increase from 4·5% to 15% in the 15-24 age range, possibly a combination of increased socialising in this age group. In the US, they are reporting individuals aged 18–22 years in the USA increased by 55% between Aug 2 and Sept 5, 2020. Another report showed that between June and August, 2020, the numbers were highest in the age group 20–29 years, accounting for more than 20% of the total. In England most new infections were in individuals aged 20–29 years.

    UK hospital admission data shows an increase among women aged 20–40 years old. Of female patients admitted to hospital, 12% were 21–30 years, 8% aged 41–50 years and 8·6% 61–69 years. Of males admitted, 3·7%)were 21–30. Generally, patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19 after Aug 1 were younger than the overall cohort of patients admitted since the start of the pandemic.

    Studies say "Women ... are being exposed more than men of the same age, and we are seeing more (hospital admissions for) women aged 20–40 years than expected based on previous observations."

    Many of the severe cases of COVID-19 are individuals in the hospitality and service industries, and most hospitality staff are women. The nature of the work itself increases the risk of exposure to the virus; and the greater the dose of the virus, the worse the disease. Individuals in the service industry are therefore at a high risk of exposure.

    The take-home message is that no population group is completely safe. The flu season is here, and data already collected in the UK showed that patients with infections like SARS-CoV-2, who were also infected with the flu virus, had a significantly longer hospital stay than patients with respiratory infections only. In fact, the hospitalisation time doubled.
     
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Meanwhile ...

    Hi Tom

    Leaked documents seen by Good Law Project set out special pathways by which 'VIP' and 'Cabinet Office' contacts could be awarded lucrative PPE contracts ... at inflated prices.
    • PPE Medpro won two contracts worth over £200m to supply PPE to the NHS. The £100 company, set up by the former business associate of Conservative peer Baroness Mone, won the contract just seven weeks after it was set up.
    • SG Recruitment UK Limited, a staffing agency, won two PPE contracts worth over £50m, despite auditors raising concerns about its solvency. Tory Peer Lord Chadlington sits on the Board of its parent company, Sumner Group Holdings Limited.
    • P14 Medical Limited, controlled by former Conservative Councillor Steve Dechan, who stood down in August this year, was awarded three contracts worth over £276m despite having negative £485,000 in net assets.
    The leaked documents disclose that special procurement channels – outside the normal process – were set up for VIPs.

    They also show that Cabinet Office was feeding its contacts into the procurement process, outside the normal public channel.

    Good Law Project is also aware that successful contractors – like Ayanda which received a £252m contract for supplying facemasks most of which were unusable – were guided through the process by the Cabinet Office. You can read the documents in relation to Ayanda here and here.

    Good Law Project understands that most suppliers were operating on 10-20% margin. The leaked documents reveal that Cabinet Office contacts and others were helping ‘VIPs’ sell PPE to Government outside normal procurement channels. The information that Government would buy at 25% above the price paid to ‘regular’ suppliers was a licence to make enormous margins – 35% – 45% – on contracts sometimes worth hundreds of millions of pounds. Although Government has tried to cover up the per unit prices it paid to connected suppliers, we know that Ayanda enjoyed staggering margins above the prices paid to others. So there are certainly questions to be asked about whether other politically connected ‘VIPs’ benefited from lucrative inside information about pricing.
     
  14. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    No.

    But the real take home message is that the VAST majority of deaths and serious cases are not among those of working age, who are the ones losing their jobs and businesses. It's not just a hotel owner going out of business and his staff becoming unemployed: it is all the suppliers, the people who make cutlery and linen-- the people who make the cardboard cartons and the suppliers of all the other services that support the industry -- the tour bus operators and all the small shops and businesses in the towns affected. So for one hotel that goes down, scores of others are affected too.

    I have never denied there are young people and working people affected by covid -- but the majority are far worse affected by the cure than the disease.

    So that's ok, as long as hospitals are not pressurised?
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  15. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    True .. it's happening all over Europe. I have no doubt that most people realise that this is highly undesirable.
    However, it seems that most govts. can't see any practical alternatives, and don't see "doing nothing" as an option.
     
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  16. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Yes But the whole point is the vast majority suffered no major symptoms? How many were hospitalised?

    The reality is six in every 100 000 have died after testing positive within 28 days and the average age 82.5 yrs, and for that we are destroying the lives of the young and working age.

    I'm not debating alternatives. It's simply a fact. We can weep for them, but we should not justify it by trying to portray covid as worse than it is -- as a general killer, which it is not. Imo
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    A month long lockdown to be announced in England on Monday.

    Destroying the economy and the lives of working age and young people, in order to prevent pressure on the hospitals, and I don't think that's a good balance.

    But right at this point there seems to be nothing else they can do because they're too far down the wrong road from the beginning, to be able to turn around and change the system now.

    Add no-deal Brexit on December 31st ...
     
  18. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic) Admin

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    I don't envy you, I have to say.

    (Me, I've been in bed with fever and more of the typical symptoms for the past few days. Doctor thinks its common cold, did not get me tested. I live in one of the boroughs with the highest incidence rate in the country.

    Feeling a better, but far from well again. Hope it was really just a cold.)
     
  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Hang in there, brother :(
     
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  20. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you're feeling better! I hope you have things set up so you can get well again!
     
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