So which is it that you don't like about them, social justice, or the means they choose to try to bring it about?

The means. And their broader ideology(the philosophies underpinning their cult/regime....neomarxism, post modernism, deconstructionism, authoritarianism, sophism, orwellian newspeak and doublethink, double standards...claiming to be antiracist/sexist but really just being hatefully anti-white racists and anti-male sexists by scapegoating, pathologizing, fear mongering against, belittling, ignoring and dismissing, mocking, demonizing....dehumanization process of whites and males and especially *white Males* as classes based on skin color and/or gender- which classes are their*original sin*....the new *devils* to demonize. While simultaneously patronizingly fetishizing, saintifyng, and infantilizing nonwhites and women/females and homosexuals and transgenders....especially certain races...and in true Orwellian newspeak calling this *empowermenr* and *respect* when it's the exact opposite...the soft bigotry of low expectations- in a way that makes them racist and sexist towards or in regards ALL. And their skewed idea that people of certain races and females and homosexuals & trannies must vote a certain way or be of a certain sociopolitical viewpoint...or else they are just selling out and betraying their race/gender/orientation...are for blacks right of center who arent *progressivists/leftists/ sjws* calling them coins and uncle Tom's and so on and women or gays/etc that are right of center or even just not *progressivists/leftists/sjws* are also guilty of selling out and being *self hating* heretics to be burned at the stake.
Their heresy hunting and witch hunting and hysteria, their penchant for shutting down and using authority to censor and silence speech and events and speakers, etc, that they don't agree with. Claiming to be for *diversity* and *tolerance*...but only on the surface/superficial level...being incredibly intolerant towards deeper and more important diversity of thought/opinion/concience/speech-expression and association/affiliation...intolerant towards anyone or anything that is not SJW far left neomarxist and/or progressivist).
I have no problem with the concept of social justice in itself.
The problem is that their use of Social justice and *tolerance* and *diversity* as phrases is just a trojan horse for their Orwellian methods and totalitarian agendas.
They care less about those shallowly used slogans and buzzwords than they do about other ideologies that are rules by and about imposing them in the most intolerant authoritarian of ways. They use those terms merely to obfuscate their actual agendas and underpinning ideologies and to deceive and bully and as a smokescreen.

The idea of social justice in itself is fine. When led by classical liberal and enlightenment ideals/principles...which were advancing social justice and equality of opportunity and actual diversity and tolerance long before these neomarxists(under the misleading regressive ideology and methodological approach *progressivism*)....coopted and monopolized the terms/phrases and ideas for a much darker, more authoritarian agenda.
Everything they claim they are...they are the opposite in reality, and everything they accuse others of...they are themselves guilty of(accuse your enemy of that which you are guilty)...they are Orwells INGSOC and the *ministry of love* and *ministry of truth* and *ministry of peace*(mentioned in *1984*)....which were and did the exact opposite of what their names imply on the surface. They enforce newspeak, thoughtcrime p.c. policing, and doublethink. In Orwells words in *1984*...they are doubleplusgoodthinkers.

They are the real phobic intolerant totalitarians...as they go around calling everyone else bigots and *literal nazis* and *this or that supremacists* *or this or that aphobic* and *intolerant*.
They are literally insane, their top leaders are willfully deceptive lying sociopath narcissists...and know it, their foot soldiers are...sometimes also those things...though more often they are just brainwashed and deluded doops(some mean well, but most really don't and are just narccistic virtue signallers looking for a pat on the back).
But they thrive on hypocrisy and authoritarianism.

Social justice(and *tolerance* and *diversity* and *antiracist/sexist*)as a term(s) and concept(s) for them is just an inverted smokescreen and trojan horse.

They are the new puritans....taking over from the satanic panic witch hint/heresy hunt religious right puritans of old.
Read my above response, thank you.
If it was just a NATURAL shift taking place in reasoned steps over time w/out manipulation, bullying, authoritarianism, hypocrisy, and lying, a fluid natural evolution...that might be fine.
But that is NOT what is happening and NOT what they are doing or what they are about.
...and it's not a SHIFT FORWARD with them, it's a shift BACKWARDS...they are just reversing the pendulum swing in the opposite extreme direction...forcefully, and only making surface change..they are no better than the monsters they claim to fight. Under the surface the are the opposite side of the same coin, same doo-doo...different pile. The same authoritarian, totalitarian, puritanical, fallacious logic unreasoning, corrupt, power mad, snarling controlling beast monster as the other side they claim to be against. They call themselves progressives but are in actuality regressives(INGSOC is the opposite of the rhetoric and slogans and buzzwords it uses and is guilty of that which it accuses others of, read *1984* and understand).
As Christopher Hitchens wrote *utopians become tyrants when they start to emulate their former masters*.
*be careful in fighting monsters that you do not become one. And if you stare to long into the abyss...the abyss will stare into you* -Neitsche
Frankly. I think INDIVIDUAL justice is better, more well thought out, wiser than *social*.
Social justice is merely the natural outcome of focusing on justice for, or the inherent dignity, worth, and equality of opportunity/under law(not equality of outcomes/equity) of every individual human being(which includes use but also wise stewardship of the ecosystem or environment every individual is in and part of, but not the environment in and of itself. And also of course humane treatment of lower species....which doesn't neccaserily mean abandoning the natural food chain, just non abuse of. Though individuals who choose vegetarianism or veganism for themselves by free choice for health reasons or because they personally cannot stomach the idea of eating something that is living or was alive...although vegetation or plants are technically......living things...but to each their own, I just cant stand those who look down upon and preach with contempt that meat eaters or omnivores...since homosapiens are neither carnivores nor herbivores...but both by nature, and really those types of people arent as concerned about animals as they are about being misanthropic...often also nihilistic...and use *animal rights* rhetoric as a smokescreen for that).

If we put the primacy and dignity(and equality of opportunity/under law)of the individual first and foremost, social justice naturally follows suit, but if we put collectives first...we just create needlessly divisive, bitter group/mob resentments and rivalry isca natural outcome of this and also create huge minds...or the idea that collectives ...every individual is or should just beva hive mind collective member sharing all the same interests, values, beliefs, biases...rather than unique, autonomous individual beings/minds.
And that is walking on dangerous and poisonous territory.
Where groups are especially or particularly singled out by others or a majority... yes they as collectives do matter...if their *grouping/collective* is harshly persecuted, repressed, oppressed, dehumanized, scapegoated, pathologized, demonized, etc. But the collective is nor should be an ends in itself. Collectives are important but they are principally trumped by the individuals within them.

Put every individual first, all else will naturally fall into place.

SJW culture/ideology puts collectives and hive minds first...and pits collectives and hive minds against each other, in the end just achieving vengeful collective counter persecutions/repressions/oppressions....the pendulum swinging back and forth, never ever achieving any real positive outcome/ends for anybody...individual or collective.

It is the opposite extreme and flip side of the other extreme side it claims to fight.

And SJW ideology is rooted in marxism. Marxism which it's two main manifestations communism and marxian socialism have a body count if 100-150 million people in the last century. While the create a hysteria and rail on about nazism and/or fascism(the former being also far left authoritarianism...nationalist SOCIALISM/national socialist german workers party, NOT far right like they keep claiming, though yes...socially nazism was conservative but yet far left socialist economically)...which in the hysteria about a barely existent anymore neonazism(which everyone else rightfully hates, which has no real sociopolitical power, wealth, or influence anymore and very few in numbers)...they openly(in large numbers which DO have real sociopolitical influence, wealth, and power and tolerance of and even outright support of by most establishment left and tolerance by neocon establishment right too, and from/by the MSMm Hollywood/entertainment industry, academe ...and even k-12 primary schools, Corporations, etc) openly promote this marxism. Whose body count DWARFS that if the nazis(12 million) and also of the fascist regimes of the past like Mussolini's Italy...dwarfs both put together actually.
But...what's the hysteria in our modern west and world today? Nazism...everyone that isnt a progressive or neomarxist or supporter of SJWism is *literally hitler/nazi*, real nazism on the other hand... barely exists anymore. And this hysteria is put forth by people who are massive in numbers and massive in influence, wealth, and power....marxists...which had a much higher body count, yet for some reason this is swept under the rug...while everyone tolerates, condones, and even supports these bully communists/internationalist socialists(globalists)/marxists.
Bizzaro world.

We will never get better as a human society if we keep allowing them to plow over us and over everything, or if we keep putting collectives/hive minds/group resentments and superficial traits bitterness and constant battles between such first rather than the individual first. We will keep repeating the same errors over and over and over.
This...is the world the SJWs are creating in spite of their flowery labels and buzzwords and rhetorical shallow slogans. Which they are to indoctrinated and shallow in their intellects and moral or historical knowledge or understanding...to grasp. That or in some of their cases...to intellectually dishonest/lazy and disengenuous to admit to.
So which is it that you don't like about them, social justice, or the means they choose to try to bring it about?
It is always traumatic for the dinosaurs as their ecosystem collapses.

Shift happens.
There are things about it I like and things I don't like. I would disagree with police defunding for instance, and I've never been keen on the gender education of very young children with 54 gender pronouns, etc.

But I fully support the freedom of belief and expression and of gender expression and so on. I am probably what is termed a liberal. And I believe that the rights of the tennis club do not entitle it to force its own rules and language onto the rugby club -- or onto society at large.

My problem comes when I want to express my opinion about the things I disagree with. I should be allowed to do so; I should be allowed to enter the debate and say my piece. I should not be cancelled and ruined and destroyed for saying it?
...they are no better than the monsters they claim to fight. Under the surface the are the opposite side of the same coin, same doo-doo...different pile. The same authoritarian, totalitarian, puritanical, fallacious logic unreasoning, corrupt, power mad, snarling controlling beast monster as the other side they claim to be against ...
The last line of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm'

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
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I believe the pronouns are up to the nineties or 100s now, lol!
I also disagree with defunding the police. When I was younger(not when I was a kid, but when in my mid-late 20s) I jumped on the anti-cop train rather intellectually and morally lazily and ignorantly. But in the last several years became a huge law and order pro-cop person. The people hating on and demonizing the police have no idea the risks officers take every day to enforce the law and protect the public and how little they get paid for the risks they take. The anti-cop thing has gotten to disgusting epidemic proportions, and it is so ignorant, lazy, and juvenile, and utterly insane!
Though I do not like stations and officers that *follow orders* in enforcing injustice and unconstitutional edicts(especially during the covid lockdowns fascism)...or whom break laws secretly(corrupt cops or stations that secretly engage in hard drug trade,etc) or unwarranted police brutality. These officers and precincts could be better labelled as *oath breakers*...but generally these are a tiny minority(except for in the enforcement of unconstitutional and illegal, unjust covid fascism, alot are just following orders here...mostly not because they're bad people...just because unlike so many other people they're brainwashed and don't know any better....though some do seem to enjoy the extra level of abuse of power genuinely, but there are also many officers and sheriffs and precincts which refuse to enforce these edicts...at least heavily).

But yeah, personally when I see cops I like to tell them how much I appreciate their service and express my sympathies for them in this current anti cop environment.

While I have no problem with homosexuality in itself, and don't care about peoples sexual orientation, inam sick to death of the mainstream lgtbqia*xyzabc123 cult and regime, it has become utterly Orwellian, deluded, and totalitarian and authoritarian. The thing is like those other buzzwords, slogans and such I mentioned in my above posts...the terms and rhetoric have just become a trojan horse smokescreen cover for what they are really about...neomarxist progressivism(and all that comes along with that)..far left authoritarianism, newspeak, thoughtcrime, etc. So much so that like blacks who are right of center or not progressivist who are heresy hunted as uncle toms/etc, the mainstream...far left lgbtq(etc) movement does the same to gays and trannies, etc who are of similar sociopolitical inclinations and who arenf far left neomarxist progressives.
As for transgenderism. I do not buy into it, I think it is a religion based on metaphysical spiritual claims(born in the wrong body, wrong gender spirit born in wrong genders body...)...a fundamentally metaphysical spiritual RELIGIOUS claim, yet they claim it us scientific(which it isn't) and anyone who dares disagree even in the slightest is a transphobic bigot monster(this includes trannies who arenf leftist marxist progressives). And they are imposing this in authoritarian ways, question is...how is this not a form of theocracy?
Whining about being oppressed, in todays west all the l the g the t and b and others ...even the lunatic non-binaries with dozens of pronouns which they use laws and authoritarian measures to make people agree with the newspeak and compelled speech codes and laws, reality is most westerners either fully accept them or at least have tolerance for them(that's not enough to them, you must fully agree and fully accept.....or else, they conflate tolerance...*to tolerate* with Agreement). They are fully supported and their ideologies propagandize by pop culture, Hollywood/entertainment industry, MSM, corporations, academe(and even k-12 schools, and now these people are literally trying to turn prepubescent children into trannies and even drag queens and nonbinaries and starting to demand that teenagers, tweenagers, and small children should be allowed to start transitioning....and they get away with it and full backing from the establishment) all leftist politicians and most mainstream neocons to some degree at least.
Everyone is literally kissing their butts, cowering to their demands and their authoritarian bullying and Orwellian nonsense. Everyone's afraid to disagree or to offend them even accidentally. And they have the gall to claim to be *oppressed*, lol!

Now I support adults rights to be transgenders and get sex changes and to fundamental liberties and equality of opportunity of course(sadly many of them don't support those rights for others who may disagree w/them....even a little). And obviously they should be treated as equal humand(they generally are...and even moreso...alot of special protections and butt kissing...ie. PRIVELAGE!) And equal adults(if they act like such but most of the mainstream leftist ones act like whiny, demanding narccistic , temper tantrum, spoiled children).
I simply disagree that it has any scientific or rational validity is all, and simply think it is a metaphysical spiritual proposition...or *religion*...and should be treated as all other religions....not specially...like so many of them demand.

I do think a case can be made that a small percentage of adults w/longtime diagnosed gender dysphoria(a psychological illness that may warrant...)...may warrant or may be valid to transition. But not many.
Then there are people born intersexed or hermaphroditic to one degree or another...their plight is real and transgenderism and transitioning is perfectly valid in their case. Sadly I think this trendy transgender craze and especially drag queens(who arent just playing dress up but actually think they deserve to be put in the same class of protections and privelages and demands that the trannies and/or intersexed are...even this sexualizing pedophilic child drag queens trend) is actually cheapening the plight of the intersexed/ hermaphroditic ...and of those with genuine gender dysphoria....which is actually a slap in the face to their very real plight.

But I'm a libertarian centrist. I believe in their rights to believe whatever they want of themselves and be treated equally to everyone else, but not to bully everyone and impose upon everyone and demand special protections and privelages.
And they don't have the right to bully, silence, and use authoritarian Orwellian measures to impose themselves.

I'm actually a big fan of a couple Trannies. YouTuber libertarian conservative ****** Blaire White for example.

As for homosexuality, I'm fully on board with that and bisexuals too.
But I still don't like the Orwellian, totalitarian authoritarian far left neomarxist progressivist ones, lol!
But of course support their fundamental liberties like I do for everyone else(pity they do not support the same for us or others, return the courtesy)

I live that line from animal farm. I've had 1984 for several years and have read it a few times. Just recently a few months ago finally bought animal farm and read it. Both great, prophetic, insightful, important books.
... thoughtcrime, etc. So much so that like blacks who are right of center or not progressivist who are heresy hunted as uncle toms/etc, the mainstream...far left lgbtq (etc) movement does the same to gays and trannies, etc who are of similar sociopolitical inclinations and who arenf far left neomarxist progressives...

... Everyone's afraid to disagree or to offend them even accidentally ...
I'm actually a big fan of a couple Trannies. YouTuber libertarian conservative ****** Blaire White for example.
Yes. I like her too. She's wise, imo
Not to allow. To boycott. To freeze out contrary expression, because the times demand it ...
" By their fruits shall they be known," the great master said ...

Two thousand years they echo on; 2000 years they'll still be true, imo
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Well meaning words and good intentions have been hijacked by the politics of gender and cancel culture, imo
This word is often used in a disapproving way by people who think that some other people are too easily upset about these issues, or talk too much about them in a way that does not change anything.

Hitler was a victim of woke cancel culture.
I see a gathering of radical centrists here! Fundies of the Middle Pillar? Extreme Centre-Wingers?

Just for the sake of being a little contrarian myself: What would the opposite of a SJW be? A fighter for social unjustice? A pacifist for social justice? An Antisocial Justice Warrior? A Soldier of Just Capital? (just pulling your legs, please carry on :) )
I used to speculate about that too.... I came up with "Antisocial Unjust Deadbeat"
Franklin Skinner, a black writer tweeted:

blackfolk made "woke" to represent awakening from evil centuries old racist conditioning
now look
yall highjacked & twisted it into some hollow caricature devoid of meaning that u ridicule & fight over it just like everything else we create
man sincerely F**K. ALL. OF. U.


I sympathise with the sentiment, and I have to agree. What started as a term within the Black American community has been co-opted by the white, both right and left, and used as a term to bludgeon the other with ...

... meanwhile, for black folks, nothing really changes ...
Woke...seems to me it is a born again concept...realizing you been asleep and not aware of the world and people your words and actions affect.
Woke...seems to me it is a born again concept...realizing you been asleep and not aware of the world and people your words and actions affect.
The earliest known example of 'woke' concern's Afro-American consciousness “waking up” to their socio-political reality.

In 1923 Marcus Garvey's “Wake up Ethiopia! Wake up Africa!” was a call on Black people to become more socially and politically conscious.

In 1938, Blues legend Huddie Leadbetter – aka Lead Belly – wrote “Scottsboro Boys,” recalling events seven years before when nine Black teenagers in Scottsboro, Arkansas, who were accused of raping two white women.

“I made this little song about down there,” Lead Belly said later. “So I advise everybody, be a little careful when they go along through there — best stay woke, keep their eyes open.”

Black novelist William Melvin Kelley wrote a first-person piece for the Times called “If You’re Woke You Dig It." Kelley points out that words like 'cool' and 'dig' lay not within white America but with Black Americans, predominantly among Black jazz musicians.

Black language rises out of the lived experience. The need to 'stay woke' as a matter of necessity is all part of that. Hence the term in reference to 'Black Lives Matter'.

Meanwhile, white culture appropriates the Black vernacular, as if it understands it, which Black culture knows it simply doesn't – and then has the gall to explain it.

And now we have white entitled d*ckh**ds like Laurence Fox banging on about, essentially, the preservation of white privilege.


So I don't use the word 'woke', in the same way I don't use the 'N' word, because it's not mine to use.
Cultural libertarians are anyone on the political spectrum whom support absolutely the fundamental God/nature given rights and fundamental liberties for EVERYONE....every individual period- freewill, freedom of thought/concience/belief/opinion- speech/expression- association/affiliation- assembly and peaceful protest/dissent, opposing any side engaging in extreme authoritarianism(and totalitarian and Orwellian trickery/control).
You have a strawman about libertarianism in your head that has nothing to do with actual libertarianism(in fact the opposite if it....authoritarianism...whether right wing fascism/corporatism...monopoly/crony capitalism or leftist Marxism).

That, is, in a nutshell what cultural libertarianism is.
There's a bit more to it...like that it is heavily based in the first principles/values of the enlightenment. But what I gave you is the meat and potatoes of it.
I like that definition of libertarianism and is what I would most align with.
However due to numerous factors -- either the writings of Ayn Rand in the middle of the last century OR some promoters of the idea of libertarianism in contemporary politics, the very word has been sullied by the idea of that it is all about promoting business interests with no regulations and a fanatical allergy to any regulation or any taxation in any form. It gets a lot of press around the notion of private property and private interests etc etc etc.

Perhaps that is why the qualifier of "cultural" is necessary?