Arian Christology

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by muhammad_isa, Feb 19, 2021.

  1. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    True .. I don't see anything wrong with speculation from logical reasoning.
    To claim that it is "the absolute truth" without authority is another matter.

    ..so we have the Bible as an authority if you believe in its truths..
    ..then we have the Qur'an..
    ..and then the writings of Baha'u'llah.

    We all know where we stand.
     
  2. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Expand this, please ...?
     
  3. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    They don't NEED to. You only see things in your perspective.
    i.e. the Qur'an is not true

    For me, I see it as explaining what went wrong with the evolution of Christianity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  4. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Limited ...

    Good dodge. Why do they need to relate to Jesus at all? What do they have anything about Jesus? They have their own prophets and their own scriptures and their own problems; why are they taking it back to Jesus all the time?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  5. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Good question :)
    It is for the individual to decide what might be directly from God or might be from speculation.
    We all differ .. we are not all the same.

    Personally, I don't like the worship of "scholars" or a particular "church".
    I was raised as a Protestant, after all ;)
     
  6. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    You'll have to ask God why he is mentioned in the Qur'an, but I can imagine why. :)
    [ the author of the Qur'an is claimed to be God through angel Gabriel ]
     
  7. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    The Quran it's from God? Where anyone differs, it's not from God?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  8. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    As you say, it's not that simple.
    We have to decide for ourselves who is likely to have a correct belief / creed.
    However, I'm not aware that there is any Muslim scholar who thinks
    that the Qura'n does not stress tawhid .. the Oneness of God.
     
  9. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I see that many Christian churches have their good points and bad points..
    ..but then we all judge by different criteria through rose-coloured spectacles?

    I might not believe in the concept that the Holy Spirit is part of an orthodox trinity.
    That does not mean that I don't believe that God blesses us in a spiritual way.
    Origin understood many things in an allegorical way .. and God knows best.
     
  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Other faiths differ. They have different scriptures and beliefs, different gods even What makes the "Muslim scholar' right?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  11. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    What makes ANY scholar right? :)
    An atheist does not believe in a god.
    ..so why should they believe any scholar is right?

    That does not stop them being interested in different religions or even practising them.
    Some religions aren't about Divinity.

    Islam and Christianity are .. and they both propose "the One God of Abraham".
    If anybody decides that the Qur'an is not from God, then that is between them and God.
    God knows why we say what we say and do what we do.
    Sincere believers of either religion have nothing to fear, imo.
     
  12. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Allah sent Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, but you, against what Bahaollah said, do not recognize him.
    No one can get out of the Matrix. Christians have their way of being born again and Bahais have their way to be born again. These two ways are different. The differences in religions cannot be papered over.
    You are forgetting the 'wanna-bees', Bahais and Ahmadiyyas. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  13. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    In reference of Christ, no, Scripture refutes that interpretation. You're not explaining the Trinity, you're explaining it away.

    No, it really doesn't, it rationalises it to fit within a common model – not that which is Revealed in Scripture.

    An explanation with Logic and Reason is:
    The Father denotes God's Is-ness, the Son denotes God's self-awareness, the Holy Spirit denotes God's self-understanding: the Father who is above all, and the Son who is through all, and the Holy Spirit who is in all... For it is through the Trinity that the Father wills, the Son orders and the Spirit manifests (with acknowledgement to Hippolytus).

    The Son is not a Messenger, He is the Message ...
     
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  14. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I would not be so sure :rolleyes: The post-resurrection sightings recorded in Scripture give subtle indications that are missed at first glance.

    What Genesis indicates is the holistic nature of creation. The divine principle is immanent to the world in the very substance of matter while simultaneously, by virtue of Itself, utterly transcends it.

    What is intrinsic to Abrahamic gnosis is the unity of formal and formless, of matter and spirit; the two are not in opposition but in union, and without that union one cannot comprehend the perfections which are intrinsic to it.

    In the Transfiguration and the Resurrection, Christ reveals the spiritual nature of the flesh. In Christ this message of renewal is not merely a formula of theoretical expediency, it is a living proof, a physical, fleshly actuality, of the Principle.

    Because that is what we are. We have to get away from the idea that where we are is 'bad' – in one sense that is an offence against God, or at least a self-willed blindness. We are human beings – not physical beings, not spiritual beings – but both.

    The idea is not to return to it, but to transform it. When we wake up to that message ...

    Someone gives a thirsting someone a drink of water; a starving someone a crust of bread; a sickening someone an act of care; a dying someone a word of comfort; an imprisoned someone a word of hope ... every act, is the same act, it is love made flesh in act – and the angels can only stand and wonder.

    Let's not run from our vocation.
     
  15. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Indeed .. we are physical beings with a non-material soul.
    Our acts of compassion for others is an essential part of faith.
     
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  16. Thomas

    Thomas Super Moderator Staff Member

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    And some!

    I saw a video, a Moslem father teaching his son to wash, and there really was a sense of the sacred about it ... a really moving moment.
     
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  18. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    It is ALL speculation.
    Claiming that Arius believed this or believed that is speculation.

    What you believe is speculation i.e. the orthodox trinity
    One can claim that that is what the Bible says .. or it is part of our tradition which was established
    by the church Fathers .. but can you prove it?
    I don't think so.
     
  19. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens

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    Christ is far more than what you want to limit him to be as 'Jesus son of Mary'

    Christ does not require allowance or approval
     
  20. Tone Bristow-Stagg

    Tone Bristow-Stagg Active Member

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    Jesus was the Messenger. The Holy Spirit which became known as Christ, in the Station of the Son, is the Message.

    All the best Thomas may life be Faith in service.

    Regards Tony
     

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