the earlier Jews and Christians recognize prophet Muhammad and expect his coming

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by Friend, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. Friend

    Friend In the Name of God

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    Arabia is the land of the Promised One

    "The burden upon Arabia. In the forest in Arabia shall ye lodge, O ye travelling companions of Dedanim. The inhabitants of the Land of Tema brought water to him that was thirsty, they prevented with their bread him they fled. For they fled form the swords, from the drawn swords and from the bent bow, from the grievousness of war. For thus hath the Lord said unto me, within a year, according to the years of a hireling, and all the glory of Kedar shall fail; And the residue of number of archers, the mighty men of the children of Kedar, shall diminished: for the Lord God of Israel hath spoken it." (Isaiah 21:13-17).

    The first point to bear in mind in connection with this prophecy is that Arabia is the scene of the Prophecy. This is most significant. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) appeared in Arabia.

    Secondly, the prophecy speaks of "Him that fled". The flight of prophet Muhammad (SAW) is momentous event in the history of the world. It is upon the flight of prophet Muhammad (SAW) from Mecca to Al Madeenah ,that the Muslim calendar begins .

    Thanks
     
  2. Friend

    Friend In the Name of God

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    Salaamu Alyckum ​
    The Messenger of Allah possesses many manifest miracles and signs demonstrating [his veracity], reaching thousands and they are well known.


    The splitting of the moon, water flowing from between his fingers, increasing the quantity of food and water, the glorification of the food, the palm tree yearning for him, stones greeting him, the talking of the poisoned leg [of roasted sheep], trees walking towards him, two trees that were far apart coming together and then parting again, the barren [and therefore dry] sheep giving milk, his returning the eye of Qatidah bin an-Nu`man to its place with his hand after it had slipped out, his spitting lightly into the eye of Ali when it had become inflamed and its being cured almost immediately, his wiping the leg of `Abdullah bin `Atiq whereupon he was immediately cured.



    The cleaving asunder of the Moon:
    This miracle is confirmed by both the Qur?an and the Sunnah. The Qur?an states: ?The hour [of judgment] is nigh and the moon is cleft asunder?. As to the Sunnah, all the jurists, commentators and Traditionalists are agreed that the moon was cleft asunder when Muhammad (PBUH) entreated Allah to respond to the disbelieves among Quraish, who asked the Prophet to do that to prove his truthfulness that he was indeed a Messenger of Allah. The miracle is confirmed by the following verse, which exposes the disbelieves obstinacy and insistence that he was no more than a magician. The Qur?an says: ? But if they see a sign, they turn away, and say: This is [but] transient magic. They reject [the warning] and follow their [own] Iusts, but every matter has its appointed time Had there been no cleavage of the moon, the Qur?an should not have censured and denounced the disbelievers? rejection of Allah?s signs.
    That was a great miracle which is not less in manifestation than the parting of the sea by the staff of Moses. It was actually greater in effect, because the cleavage of the moon entailed no effect on the earth nor did it imbalance the Divine law of gravity between the moon and other planets.
    It was strange on the part of Quraish to ask the Prophet for more convincing miracles other than this great impressive one. They insisted that ?We shall not believe in the until those cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth, or [until] thou have a garden of date trees and wines, and cause rivers to gush forth in their midst. Carrying abundant water, or thou cause the sky to fall in pieces, as thou sayest [will happen] against us, or thou bring God and angels before [us] face to face, or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies, No, shall not even believe in the mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read. Say Glory to my Lord. Am I aught but a man. ? an Apostle.? [17:90-93]
    The disbelievers challenged the Prophet to ascend to the heavens, and when this took place the Prophet was taken up to the heavens and then returned to his own place, Allah concealed the incident; and this was due to two reasons0. Firstly, they were expected to deny the ascension, and as Allah assures, ?If We had sent unto thee a written [Message] on parchment, so that they could touch it with their hands. The unbelievers would have been sure to say: This is nothing but obvious magic? He also says: ?Even if We opened out to them a gate form heaven, and they were to continue [all day] ascending therein, they would only say: our eyes have been intoxicated. Nay we have been bewitched by sorcery.? This was exactly what happened later. When the Prophet told them of the journey be made during the night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque [Al Masjid al ? Aqsa] and his return to his chambre the same night, they did not believe him, although he not tell them the whole story.
    Actually, this is also ,one of the greatest Miracles of Al Quraan the scientist of the space (cosmology) prove that in the modern science, the cosmonauuts see the same thing when they rise to the heaven ,they can't out from the space of the earth except from certain gate and when they inter this gate they saw darkness "our eyes have been intoxicated".
    The second reason for concealing the Prophet?s ascent to heavens from the disbelieves was that the purpose of the journey was to calm and eamfon the Prophet spiritually after all the difficulties and injury he had received at Makkah. He had to be prepared for the second stage of propagating the Call at Madinab. Alluding to the journey from Makkah to Jerusalem, Allah says it was made ?in order that We might show him some of Our signs. And as regards the ascension to heavens, ? for truly did he see of the signs of his Lord the greatest?
    Glorification by the Food and Greetings by Rocks and Trees:
    Whenever the Prophet sat to take his food, the Food glorified Allah; and this was heard by his Companions. Sahih Al-Bukhari quotes Abdullah ibn Mas?ud as having said: Whenever we took food with the Prophet, we heard glorification of Allah by what we were eating.
    Rocks used to greet the Prophet. Sahih Muslim quotes Jaber ibn Samrah as having said: The prophet told us that he could detect a rock in Makkah, which used to greet him, before he was raised as a prophet. Ali. May Allah be pleased with him, as reported by Al-Tirmidhi and others, said: I was strolling with the Prophet once on the outskirts of Makkah, I noticed that not a tree or a rock he passed did let him pass without murmuring: Peace be upon you, O Messenger of Allah.
    Sobbing by a Tree-trunk:
    When the Muslims were little in number, the Prophet used to address them standing on a tree-trunk; but when the Muslims grew in number, a pulpit was erected from which he gave his sermons instead of the tree- trunk. The day the Prophet left the trunk, it continued to sob in grief until the Prophet returned and sat a little while by it. The event was witnessed by all the Muslims.
    Flowing of Water out of his Fingers:
    Water gushed forth from among the fingers of the Prophet on several occasions. Anas says in the two Sahihs; Once, when the afternoon prayer was due, the Prophet performed ablution prior to the prayer. Other people could find no more water for ablution, and when this came to the notice of the Prophet, he put his hand inside the container from which he had taken water for ablution and asked men to perform their ablution. Water flowed out of his fingers until all men present performed ablution. When Anas was later asked about the number of men who benefited from this water, he said: They were three hundred men.
    On several occasions, a little food before the Prophet became by his blessing abundant to an extent that it sufficed tens of men.
    The Prophet. Moreover, foretold of many things, which later came true. Al-Bukhari quotes Anas as having narrated this story: The Prophet once climbed Mount Uhud, near Madinah, with Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman in his company. The Mount shook a little; and the Prophet kicked it by his leg, saying; Do not shake, Uhud, you have over you now a Prophet, a Truthful man and two martyrs. The prophecy came true; Umar was later killed by a Persian slave, Abu Loloa, which he was leading Muslims in a dawn prayer; Uthman Ibn Affan was killed during the great outrage that was plotted against him towards the end of his tenure as a Caliph.
    Thanks

     
  3. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    I just discovered what it means Peri-Klytos! Peri = awaited and Klytos = savior and referring to a male. Periklytos Translation = The awaited Saviour (masculine)

    Greek Cypriots are the only Greeks in this planet who still talk an Ancient Greek dialect by 700'000 people including me and its dieing because modern Greek texts books has been hitting Cypriot schools since Cyprus got independence. Both words are modern though, Klytos is also a popular Greek name for Greeks today. Theres not much difference to Ancient and modern Greek, modern Greek just has a few latin words in there too and thats about it. Funny how things change Latin came out of Greek.
     
  4. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    Actually it is an Ancient Greek word and not used anymore but when you tear it apart you see where its been used in Modern, thats why know one could find the meaning :) I think.

    Friend, how come our bible doesn't mention this? The bible was made about 50 to 200 years after Christ put together by the Romans, I think the date might be wrong? But Muhammad didn't appear until 600 years after Christ. So this means when the bible was in it’s finally form know one would have been able to erase the mention of the Periklytos, if your saying there is a consipracy? Also if what your saying is true there is also no way in knowing it was a mention of Muhammad.

    So as it appears you are also wrong about PeriKlytos meaning "admirable and glorified one" what made you say that? Obviously you are reading off uneducated and fabricated sources. Periklytos actaully means The awaited Saviour, why would Jesus call anyone else by this, when he knew he was the awaited saviour? Is there a conspiracy I'm unaware of?
     
  5. Friend

    Friend In the Name of God

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    AlSlaamu Alyckum

    "Parakletos" or "Periklytos"?:

    In other words, "Periklytos" is "Muhammad" in Greek. There are several similar documented cases of similar word substitution in the Bible. It is also quite possible that both words were contained in the original text but were dropped by a copyist because of the ancient custom of writing words closely packed, with no spaces in-between them. In such a case the original reading would have been: "and He will give you another comforter(Parakletos), the admirable one(Periklytos)" (See examples of many similar cases in the Biblical text in "The Emphatic Diaglott").

    In his book "Muhammed in the Bible", Professor `Abdul-Ahad Dawud, formerly Rev. David Benjamin Keldani, Roman Catholic Bishop of Uramiah, submits a much more eloquent and scholarly presentation in defense of these assertions, far beyond the limited abilities of this humble author. For those who which to read a truly scholarly study of this matter, you may obtain a copy of that book. The following is a very brief quotation from that book:

    "The 'Paraclete' does not signify either 'consoler' or 'advocate'; in truth, it is not a classical word at all. The Greek orthography of the word is Paraklytos which in ecclesiastical literature is made to mean 'one called to aid, advocate, intercessor' (Dict. Grec.-Francais, by Alexandre). One need not profess to be a Greek scholar to know that the Greek word for 'comforter or consoler' is not 'Paraclytos' but 'Paracalon'. I have no Greek version of the Septuagint with me, but I remember perfectly well that the Hebrew word for 'comforter' (mnahem) in the Lamentations of Jeremiah (I. 2, 9, 16, 17, 21, etc.) is translated into Parakaloon, from the verb Parakaloo, which means to call to, invite, exhort, console, pray, invoke. It should be noticed that there is a long alpha vowel after the consonant kappa in the 'Paracalon' which does not exist in the 'Paraclytos.' In the phrase (He who consoles us in all our afflictions) 'paracalon' and not 'Paraclytos' is used. (I exhort, or invite, thee to work). Many other examples can be cited here. There is another Greek word for comforter or consoler, i.e. "Parygorytys' from 'I console'.....The proper Greek term for 'advocate' is Sunegorus and for 'intercessor' or 'mediator' Meditea" (Muhammad in the Bible, Prof. Abdul-`Ahad Dawud, pp. 208-209)

    Also ,the words "another Paraclete." If the comforter is the Holy Ghost then how many Holy Ghost's are there? The word "another" is significant. We have already seen how this term is applied to Jesus (peace be upon him) himself. In English, "another" may mean "One more of the same kind" or "one more of a different kind." If the latter were the one intended then the current Christian interpretation might bear some merit. However, if "One more of the same kind" was what was intended then this is positive proof that the coming Paraclete would be just like Jesus (peace be upon him), a human being and a prophet, not a ghost. The actual Greek word used was the word "allon" which is the masculine accusative form of "allos" {al'-los}: "Another of the SAME kind." The Greek word for "another of a different kind" is "heteros" {het'-er-os}.


    Thanks
     
  6. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

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    go to andalucia - there are many mosques - and synagogues - converted into churches. although i will concede that this was done by catholics, not orthodox christians.

    to be precise - and here, i'm quoting a muslim theologian - whenever it talks about "jews" in the bible, it *may or may not* refer to *all* jews. generally, the kindest and most tolerant approach is to take positive statements about jews (of which there are many) to refer to jews in general and to take negative statements (of which there are also many) as referring specifically to the jews of mecca and medina. if even a part of how these latter groups behaved to muhammad, as related in the Qur'an, can be relied on, it is hard to argue that they were acting in accordance with jewish law. certainly, they should *not* be taken as representative, any more than the jews who are alleged by the gospel to have said "his blood be on us and our children" ought to be taken as representative - and, naturally, assuming that this text could be relied upon. in short, they sound to me like a right shower of bastards and not to be taken as examples of anything decent. they certainly aren't acting correctly. they might even have been karaites (a heretical jewish sect widespread in the area at the time)

    however, the idea that "all" jews at the time (and, at the time, jews could be found from india to europe) had recognised muhammad as a *prophet* (and i use the word advisedly) is simply not feasible. as far as jewish law and tradition are concerned, prophecy as understood within judaism had died out with the destruction of the second Temple in the C1st. the standards for recognised prophecy in judaism are very specific - even if muhammad met these (and there is certainly no evidence to suggest that the jews of mecca and medina had used these criteria, which are the only ones that count in judaism) - without a sanhedrin, it could not be ratified. it is not possible to say, therefore, that muhammad was a prophet *as jewish law understands it*.

    nonetheless, it is important to note that the word used in arabic is "messenger" - rasul. there is absolutely no reason i know of why this category of "messengership" could not be valid within a non-jewish context - but i cannot, nor could any jew, consider it to be exactly the same as nevi'ut (the hebrew word for prophecy), which is that referred to by deuteronomy 18:18-19. however, the islamic notion that G!D sends "messengers" to all nations is not only feasible but an attractive one. therefore, we could define the status of "rasul" as being a general category of Divinely inspired messengership, with nevi'ut being a specifically jewish category within that. i wouldn't have a problem with that at all. the trouble comes when it is assumed that the english word "prophet" means the same to both jews and muslims - it doesn't. it is not difficult to imagine, however, that both jews, christians and pre-muslims in medina at that time were particularly ignorant and unethical - is this not the meaning of jahiliyya?

    the question of whether jews recognised jesus is an entirely different one. of course, what became normative judaism rejected him, although many people decided he was who christianity says he is. however, what the Qur'an says about what jews thought about jesus also cannot be taken to apply to all jews at the time, for the same reasons described above. nor, as far as i know, was muhammad ever claimed to be Moshiach; there are even more reasons why that is not possible - areas of comparison, interesting and instructive though they may be, are not a basis for correctness of interpretation.

    might i suggest that attempts to shoehorn muhammad into Torah are just as misguided as attempts to do the same with jesus? why can't these guys stand on their own merits? why do people feel they have to co-opt Torah for this, without following the ways of Torah? this path has been followed so much by so many people by so long - but yet we jews remain unconvinced by the arguments. isn't it about time you gave up peddling this rubbish about us? obviously you can square all these circles by claiming that the Torah we have has been falsified and is not the original, but by doing this you basically claim that our entire religion, tradition and way of life is false - which couldn't be more offensive. in short, this belief is *no* basis for DIALOGUE, let alone TOLERANCE.

    b'shalom

    bananabrain
     
  7. Friend

    Friend In the Name of God

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    postmaster ,thank you for your information .
     
  8. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    Your welcome Friend.
     
  9. Friend

    Friend In the Name of God

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    clearer fulfillment of the prophecy of Muhammad [pbuh] is found in Isaiah chapter 42:

    1. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles." Also called "My Messenger" in verse 19. No doubt all Prophets were indeed servants, messengers and elect of Allah. Yet no Prophet is universally called by these titles as Muhammad (pbuh) in Arabic "Abduhu wa Rasuluhul Mustafa" i.e. His slave servant and His elected Messenger.

    2. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street." This describes the decency of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

    3. "...he shall bring forth judgment unto truth."

    4. "He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law." This is to be compared with Jesus, who did not prevail over his enemies and was disappointed because of the rejection by the Israelites.

    5. "I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;" "and will keep thee," i.e. no other Prophet will come after him. In a short time many Gentiles were guided into Islam.

    6. "To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house." "Blind eyes, life of darkness" denotes here the pagan life. "Bring out the prisoners from the prison" denotes the abolishment of slavery for the first time in the history of mankind.

    7. "Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof." "A new song", as it is not in Hebrew or Aramaic, but Arabic. The praise of God and His Messenger Muhammad (pbuh) is chanted five times daily from the minarets of millions of mosques all over the world.

    8. "Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains." From mount Arafat near Mecca the Pilgrims chant every year the following: "Here I come [for your service] O, Allah. Here I come. Here I come. There is no partner with you. Here I come. Verily Yours is the praise, the blessings and sovereignty. There is no partner besides You." Isaiah 42 can never be applied to an Israelite Prophet as Kedar is the second son of Ishmael. See Genesis 25:13.

    9. "Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare his praise in the islands." And really Islam spread to the small islands as far as Indonesia and the Caribbean Sea.

    10. "...he shall prevail against his enemies." In a short period the Kingdom of God on earth was established with the advent of Muhammad (pbuh). The 42nd chapter of Isaiah describes exactly the character of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).


    Thanks for all
     
  10. mirrorinthefog

    mirrorinthefog New Member

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    The verses you quote I don't think are "clear" proofs...In fact, I don't understand the point of this thread, Friend. Are you trying to convince people of the validity of your faith? Or are you trying to win converts? I don't think either is necessary.
    We are here to celebrate our diverse beliefs and to do so we must respect each other's paths. Nobody is questioning your views...But you seem to be constantly challenging others, and trying to use a source that your religion itself does not accept as 100 percent valid to credit your claims.
    Why is it that you felt the need to start this post? I am not trying to offend you, but it seems like you're preaching more than stimulating debate or encouraging constructive dialogue to me.
     
  11. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    I agree that conversion is wrong for any faith.. Above all things if you can't be devoted to the religion you were born into or once accepted then you will never devote yourself to anything. All paths lead to God friend, Islam is third largest religion in the world, does this mean everyone else will go to hell?
     
  12. Friend

    Friend In the Name of God

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    Salaamu Alyckum

    Postmaster , Islam is the second largest religion of the world ,and Muslims didn't say that every non Muslim will go to hell , because only Allah know about his creations and know what people think inside themselves . and our holy book "Al Quraan" answerd your question :

    Here, from the Qur'an itself, which we have faith was literally dictated by God, through the angel Gabriel, to Muhammad: "Those who believe in the Qur'an. Those who follow the Jewish Scriptures, and the Sabians and the Christians-- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (5.69)We accept Jews and Christians as believers and accept that there are hanifs: legitimate monotheists outside of a tradition.

    "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and the revelation given to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) the prophets from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another of them, and to Him we are submitters."(2:136)


    In an Islamic state the legal dictum about the People of the Book is that "they have our rights and owe our duties." They are equally eligible for social security and other benefits the state provides. Muslims were warned against acts of bigotry or prejudice towards the People of the Book, and Prophet Muhammad himself said, "Whoever hurts a person from the People of the Book, it will be as though he hurt me personally.

    Tell me how many Christians doesn't believe that Islam is a heaven religion and Mohameed is a prophet sent from Allah ??????


     
  13. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    I apologise, so Islam is 2nd so that makes Buddism 3rd.. Yes but Christians have took a wrong path in view of Islam?
     
  14. mirrorinthefog

    mirrorinthefog New Member

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    Regardless of what one believes, he or she is required to respect your views. You sound like you're trying to win over converts instead of promoting tolerance. There is just as much bigotry in existance among followers of other religious paths as well-regardless of what their faith might officially dictate. These reactions are due to human beings not to the religion. I think there is no dispute in that matter.

    So why, why is this even being made an issue?
     
  15. Friend

    Friend In the Name of God

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    Salaam
    Postmaster,if you read the verses of Al Quraan I mentioned above ,you will see the right view of Islam regarding Christianity .Only Allah know what each individual of Christians or Muslims believe ,Islam just want to post message that Christianity and Islam have the same path ( The path of Allah ),and Christianity's enemies who wanted to destroy his noble message in his time ,,deviated it after his death .
    Just Allah know the truth ...............
    If people here ,want to stop talking about this subject ,No problem as all like.

    Thanks to all whom replied to this thread
     
  16. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    Maybe, maybe not. If Muhammad was the chosen prophet by God, how come Islam is only second popular religion in the world? I'm not bragging about Christianity here, I'm just trying to show that there is pot luck involved in which religion gains more conversions and that westerners have always dominated. If Muhammad was really the chosen one, he must have done a bad job or God wasn't on his side? The deviating Christians got there way, so why was Muhammad sent? Yes Christians have dominated and probably suppressed the Islam religion but it really has been swinging both ways. Islamic Arabs even had Spain at one point and charged an extra tax to all Christians and made there lives a lot harder in many ways. People are people and Christians and Muslims are both people. But the message of Christ has dominated this world and as it looks it always will, maybe it’s because the message is divine or maybe it’s because the Western people made it like this with there deviation, anyway you look at it, Muhammad's word isn't the most accepted. Did he fail, or is God not on his side?
     
  17. mirrorinthefog

    mirrorinthefog New Member

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    ...Popularity is hardly a measure of anything.
     
  18. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    I never said it was... I'm in fact not saying anything, I'm leaving it down to people what to think. But even for myself I don't even know the answer to what I say all I'm doing is pointing out conclusions. Muhammad was chosen by God to bring the word of god to the world and bring peace and save the people (Islamic teachings), yet the most people in this world believe in Jesus's word.. There for Muhammad was not what he said he was he didn't fulfil his own prophesise or he failed. Do I make sense? he can't have been chosen by God because God sent him to put out his word, so this mean even God failed! Is deviatation (Evil) greater then God that sent Muhammid? Answer the question friend please. I'm not saying its true but its one of my many many conclusions and the reason I have thrown this conclusion out is because of what friend said.



    Personally I believe Islam is a beautiful and peaceful religion and I only wished more religions were like Islam, I share one universal love for all people there is no wrong and there no right. We are all from Adam and eve and that is something that all 3 religions agree on, we all ate the apple and we have all been cursed, there is a very truthful meaning to that fundamental story, it is one of the most significant stories in my life because even though its so elaborate it is so mean full at the same time and all agree..(Judaism, Christianity and Islam).
     
  19. Vajradhara

    Vajradhara One of Many

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    Sanatana Dharma is 3rd... Hinduism...

    Buddha Dharma is 4th... Buddhism.
     
  20. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    Thank you, appreciated.
     

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