Evolution is Unscientific

Discussion in 'Science and the Universe' started by SufiPhilosophy, Apr 17, 2021.

  1. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Funny thing about demons, they don't like strong light... ;)

    And since you've already shown a light on him...
     
  2. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I don't know enough to form an opinion, but since "interbreed" implies sex, then any(thing / creature / asexual being) that is able to replicate without sex I would think by definition would be another species. But this may be an exception, something probably best asked of an expert in the field.
     
  3. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Never said it was your essay, only yours in the sense that you made good use of the model. No drive-by guiltings please, seen too many of them in my time ;). We all have our paths to travel, one man's overcoming is another man's selling out. My path is not yours and vice-versa, and I would not have it any other way. It takes all stripes.


    I answered a riddle with a riddle, risking that both would fail of the prick. Perhaps things turned out better than I originally thought.

    Ha... This reminds me of something my dad said once. He passed a couple years back though, and there are no do-overs in this current physical realm. People have been crossing streams here as long as I have been a member, but I will try to keep it on the straight and narrow from now on.

    Yes, that is what I mean. I would prefer honesty to carnal weapons such as deceit. I'm really glad God does not fit into your model(s). IMO one can never get to the heart of God through a scientific experiment or hypothesis. And that is a good thing, I believe. The path is always open however, it's just that it belongs to all, not just the intellectually gifted.
     
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  4. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    This may be more true than you think, Juan. I haven't seen much strong light yet, but it could happen. I for one, am not afraid of it.
     
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  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    They stomp.their feet to get the dust off..lol


    Note, I say this in quasi jest, my knee-jerk reaction when intense thought and dialogue takes me into waters that are over my head..the struggle is good!
     
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  6. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Therein lies the difference...demons hide from the light.
     
  7. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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  9. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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  10. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    He is arguing for an Adam that did exist, but as a population, not an individual and of far too early origin to match a literal Genesis ... I think?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    This being the secular thread, I am allowing myself a bit of freedom.

    As per @RJM above, it was suggested by a lecturer on my (very traditional Catholic) theology degree that 'Adam and Eve' might refer to a collective rather than an individual.

    I feel a lot like @juantoo3 with regard to The Migrant Mind blog he links to. I, too, do not necessarily agree with the conclusion, and I certainly don't agree with the last paragraph:

    Nothing said or proclaimed there (Genesis 2-3) is true. This should not be the view of people who think that the Scripture contains the way of Salvation.
    Too black and white – there's no room for discernment in a book which contains a number of distinctly different narrative forms.

    How can such a false book (in their view) really be trusted to tell us the metaphysical truths that we are unable to verify.
    Well as the empirical sciences cannot verify or validate metaphysical truth as such is, by its definition, outside its remit.

    On the other hand, other sciences, and not limited to theology, do allow that Genesis does convey truths 'of the human condition', offers a profound and meaningful discourse on what it is to be human, and indeed lays the foundation of a metaphysical paradigm.

    (As an aside, with regard to 'the empirical science method' being the benchmark of truth, I regard this as a narrow and rather myopic view of science and, in my opinion, one we still need to shake off, or evolve out of, or at the very least review, as mosts scientists seem to accept that such is no longer the case in fields where empirical data eludes us.)

    This is why a historical reading of Genesis is necessary--it is necessary for the trustworthiness of scripture.
    These statements are in themselves 'unscientific', indeed as 'unscientific' as the common view of evolution.

    I mean no criticism of the departed author, but were I in the position to talk to him I would ask if he has ever discussed this with those who believe in evolution and the Bible? I feel sure he must have, did he think us lightweight?
     
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  12. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    ..makes sense to me..
    I firmly believe that Adam and Eve existed .. but as you say, not necessarily as the only man and woman.
    Almighty G-d knows about the time-scale. Genesis is an ancient scripture of unknown origin.

    While Genesis gives a good background on the origin of mankind and early faith, we do not have to depend on it
    when it comes to accuracy, and shouldn't take it literally, imo.

    When we say billions of years, or millions of years ago, it is measured relative to our assumptions that time is definitive.
    In reality, it is mankind that defines what time is in our assumption of basic physical quantity.
    Without making those basic definitions, we could not measure anything ! :)
     
  13. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    I never quite understand where you are going with this. Subjective time can seem to pass slowly or quickly, but objective time is measured in hours and years, by radioactive decay etc. A million years is a million years, and a billion years is a thousand million years. It's not a malleable quality?
     
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  14. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    I know. Most people don't understand what I'm saying. They see time as "unchanging" .. something measurble etc.

    I am of course, referring to our definition of physical time..
    There have only ever been three definitions of the second: as a fraction of the day, as a fraction of an extrapolated year, and as the microwave frequency of a caesium atomic clock
    - wiki -

    ..so when did we observe this second of time? Now? A billion years ago? When exactly? :D
    ..or are we just assuming that "time is absolute" ?

    I think you'll find that it is no more absolute than space in an expanding universe.
    Science is dependent on our observations, and it is necessary to make many assumptions.
    We shouldn't forget that. God forbid, we might start thinking that this world is real ;)
     
  15. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Can you explain more clearly?

    We measure time in a way that works in practice: a year is a full rotation around the sun. It works for aircraft, computers, and against relativity beyond the Earth for spacecraft and satellite GPS etc. A second on Earth is a second and an hour is 60 minutes. It works in practice.

    There's no call to discard it in relation to fossils and geological strata? A second was still a second a billion years ago. Or was it not?
     
  16. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Save Our Souls

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    Of course it does. However, in relation to billions of years ago, or billions of years into the future, it is only an ASSUMPTION that it is meaningful in the way that we envisage it to be.
    i.e. is time linear and absolute over billions of years?

    If one imagines a graph of time from the big-bang up until now, would it be a straight line?
    We know it's a straight line over a few centuries, but that would be equivalent to the gradient on a curve. :)

    I don't know what billions of years means to you, but to me, I wonder what is expanding exactly.
    Yes .. the universe .. and the universe is a space-time continuum :)
     
  17. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    Still not clear. Disregarding cosmic time, just for now: does it imply that fossil and geological deposits could have happened at any time in the past -- not necessarily at the time they appear to have occurred? They could be younger, because time itself may move in mysteriously unpredictable ways?
     
  18. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    My problem is not with the validity of geological timespans. I do not question the validity of science itself. I observe that science comes up against a timespace wall beyond which it cannot function. I do not in general question the validity of the actual science.

    I accept it when using my phone, or looking at the beautiful Hubble telescope images, etc. I have no call to suddenly dispute it when it seems to disagree with whatever scripture I choose to adhere to.

    Cosmology is full of questions such as dark energy, etc. It's a moving and growing application. But I cannot dismiss the validity of the science because I don't like the conclusions

    My ten cents worth ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  19. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Thinking the biblical belief requires one to think Adam and Eve story is real is like thinking there is a mouse with an elephant head.
     
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  20. RJM Corbet

    RJM Corbet God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    The descent of Spirit into nature, imo
     

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