Evolution is Unscientific

Discussion in 'Science and the Universe' started by SufiPhilosophy, Apr 17, 2021.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I cannot separate human intellect/philosophy from the divine.
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    Can you not? Where do you locate Auschwitz?

    Are we then puppets of the divine?
     
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Administrator Admin

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    I'm not sure that's an absolute statement – but my point would be, we've brought that tribalism with us into religion.

    Indeed, but for a thousand years that was not the exegesis of the parable. In antiquity its interpretation was more mystical than moral – we are the beaten man, Christ is the Samaritan, the whole thing's a parable of the church and the sacraments. We've lost that supernatural meaning and replaced it with a moral dilemma: What would you do?

    Again, my point would be that a humanist would say 'help the fallen man'.
     
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  4. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    There were so many people before Jesus who said love your neighbor. Remember Buddha and Mahavira.
     
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  5. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    But without them there was no thought to extend 'love your neighbour' to beyond the tribe or group? It was a concept that had to sink in a bit?
    Very much. The 'we Christians' or 'we Muslims' clubs, and tribes within tribes ...
    Just as you say, imo
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
  6. stranger

    stranger wolfwing, a feral angel

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    Yes, that is the heart of the matter.

    To experiment on human beings is, in a sense, to experiment on God, seeing that our fellow human beings carry within them the spark of the divine.

    There are experiments which are done in a lab, and there are experiments that are done in the wild. The lab is safer and more contained, whereas the wild is expansive and has, within it, factors which are beyond our control. The wild is unpredictable and dangerous for all who participate.

    I was almost destroyed once by such a wild and uncontrolled experiment. How is it exactly that a god helps a fallen man? Who is the fallen man and who is the god? Perhaps such matters should be left in more capable hands, but what is done is done.

    What does it mean to "help the fallen man" anyway? Stay tuned, perhaps we will all find out. Will love rule the day? (Will all be healed?) Is destruction love, or love destruction? Matters beyond my paygrade, and I'm glad of it. I have no plan other than to let things play out.
     
  7. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    OK, so approx half a minute in 50 years. Would that extrapolate to a minute a century?, an hour in 6000 years?

    I wasn't aware of the Vedic correction, but I'm tolerably familiar with the Gregorian Correction to the Calendar. The calculations were performed by a Jesuit Priest named Christopher Clavius, and a crater on the Moon was named in his honor by the Apollo Astronauts.

    Wiki: Gregorian calendar - Wikipedia

    This is why Orthodox Christmas (season) continues to January 6. It is also where Leap Year (and Leap Century) come from.
     
  8. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Yes...but this is rather the point, not the opposite of it.

    An embryonic morality can be observed among herding and pack mammals. I get the feeling a lot of religious teachers over time served to remind us of the need and value of moral structures.
     
  9. RJM

    RJM God Feeds the Ravens Admin

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    One would imagine the people calculating the age of the universe are aware of the fact, lol?
     
  10. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    It will never sink in, Buddha or no Buddha, Jesus or no Jesus. We will always fight for our individual interests. Most suffering in the world has been because of Christians and Muslims. They have found more skeletons in Canadian Christian schools.
    And what does it result in?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021
  11. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    No, slowing of the speed of rotation of earth and the speed with which earth goes around the sun are two different things.

    Rotation, Reolution.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The first correction in the Western calendar was done by Emperor Nemo of Rome in 700 BCE, when he introduced the months of November and December. The ancient Roman calendar contained only 304 days. That was a relic of the Indo-European time-keeping from Pontic steppes, in which the two months of winter were not included in the year. Indian had their own way of time-keeping in the lunar and luni-solar calendars by adding a month or removing and adding days, which was quite accurate. The big change came when Indians abandoned calculations by asterisms (Nakshatras) to zodiac (Rashis). I do not know when that happened, perhaps sometimes before the Christian Era, may be after contact with Greeks.
     
  12. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    To an observant person it results in the point that people on the whole are pig-headed self absorbed dullards that need to be reminded from time to time that playing nice together is beneficial for themselves (and obliquely for others as well).
     
  13. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I agree, and why I said what I did which you quoted earlier:
    It doesn't answer the question, and since the answer likely isn't linear anyway I have no way to resolve the variables. As a round figure with the numbers already presented it would seem that time as we currently calculate it loses about one hour every 6000 revolutions around Sol. ;)

    Therefore within recorded historical time we can safely say the world has lost about 90 minutes. (This is apart and aside from the Gregorian correction, which depending which country and time of adoption ranged from 10 to 14 days or so.)
    Wiki: Gregorian calendar - Wikipedia

    The Wiki goes on to note that this only affected the Papal States at first. The King of Spain adopted the correction which effectively spread it across most of the Catholic world at the time, but other nations resisted as a "Catholic Conspiracy." England didn't adopt the correction until the 1750s, and then they put their own spin on it so as to leave the Catholic association out of it. That then spread the correction across the British Colonies. The Wiki notes Turkey specifically adopting the correction in 1917 for fiscal purposes, at that time the Islamic Lunar calendar was still in use for general purposes, and in 1926 Turkey adopted the correction for all calendrical purposes.

    I do not find an Emperor Nemo of Rome, the closest being Nero, though his reign was during the early Christian era.

    Did you perhaps intend the Julian calendar? That is named for Julius Caesar, when he changed the name of July to honor himself. It is an interesting quirk that several of the months do have "Latin number" associations, but they are two months off from current reckoning, i.e.: "Sept"ember (7), "Oct"ober (8), "Nov"ember (9) and "Dec"ember (10). I've seen this discussed as an artifact of having the calendar previously start the year in March at the Equinox, the traditional beginning of Spring.

    [​IMG]

    I am not familiar with the Vedic calendar. The only other I have passing familiarity with is the Celtic calendar, consisting of 12 months of 30 days, and 5 or 6 "days out of time" around the Winter Solstice. Base 12 (duodecimal) has connections back to Babylon, whereas base 10 (decimal) math has Hindu-Arabic origins.

    Also of note from the Wiki, is the start of the year observed in various countries over the centuries:
    January 1 has not always been the start of the New Year.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2021
  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    An observant person will know that even without being reminded by anyone.
     
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  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Your concepts are still not clear. There are three factors involved:
    1. Earth gains one second approximately every four years because of the slowing down of its rotation.
    2. Gregorian correction takes care of 0.25 day in the revolution of earth around the sun, that being 365.25 days.
    3. "Axial precession is a gravity-induced, slow, and continuous change in the inclination of an astronomical body's rotational axis." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession). You can say 'movement of the poles', 'the wobble'. All heavenly bodies will have it.

    [​IMG]

    For Earth, the last is a cycle of 26000 years. That gives about a month of slippage in the period of 2,000 years. It has been observed all through the history since the days of Hipparchus in the Western world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession#History) and in RigVeda for the last 6,000 years.

    Indo-European new year began on the day of vernal equinox. The seasons were important to them for their rituals, and they adjusted for any difference that arose. They noticed the asterism in which the sun rose on the day of vernal equinox. At one time it was Orion, then the Pleiades and lastly Aries. Each change meant the calendar had to be advanced by one month. The Indo-Europeans who moved to West from the steppes (who influenced the modern day European conventions) did not keep this tradition. That is why the new year now begins in January.

    I mis-spelt the name of the Roman Emperor. It was Numa in the 7th Century BCE (and not Nemo) who corrected the 304 day old Roman calendar by adding January and February.

    I am aware of the Celtic calendar beginning from Winter solstice. That was a still older version of the Indo-European calendar. It survives in India in the Sanskrit blessing - "Jive twam sharadām shatam" (May you live for a hundred winters). :)

    Twelve cannot be ascribed only to Babylonians. Return of seasons after 12+ lunar months is a universal phenomenon. Babylonians chose 12 because it was divisible by 2, 3 and 4.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    [​IMG]

    By tradition, Numa promulgated a calendar reform, which divided the year into twelve months according to the lunar course, but adjusted to be in accordance with the solstitial revolution. It was during this time that the months of January and February were introduced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numa_Pompilius#Institutions_attributed_to_Numa

    Traditionally, the original Roman calendar consisted of 10 months totaling 304 days, winter being considered a month-less period. Around 713 BC, the semi-mythical successor of Romulus, King Numa Pompilius, is supposed to have added the months of January and February, so that the calendar covered a standard lunar year (354 days). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January#History
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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  17. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    and 6, correct. :D

    And 360 (12X30) is evenly divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  18. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Good to know about Numa, a bit early in the Roman history I've looked into.

    Gyroscopes are a lot of fun, played with them extensively in the military... ;)

    I have two vintage gyroscope toys very similar to the one shown (except painted), I haven't looked at them in some years now, tucked away in some corner around here someplace.

    Magnus Effect is another intriguing natural phenomenon.
     
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  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Search, be your own guru.

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    Reminds me of Schick's 49 yards goal. :)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  20. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    An alternative application of the same priniciple:

    [​IMG]
     

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