Gaza-Israel ...

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In all wars it's the innocents that suffer. The civilians observing Shabbat didn't expect their day to end so horrifically just as it did on Yom Kippur in 1973 and makes it so much more offensive. I think the choosing of the day is purposeful. And the return fire on the civilians in Gaza that weren't responsible for the initial attack? These are ones that suffer and my prayers go to them all. Taking civilian hostages is reprehensible to me. I know Islam is a religion of peace and I'm worried about the rise of anti Islam here in the states.. 9/11 is still fresh to so many of us. We already had an anti-semite gathering in New York.

nypost.com

Democratic Socialists of America cheer murder and kidnapping of Israelis at hands of Hamas terrorists

Yes, in Times Square on Sunday, the Democratic Socialists of America will host an “All Out for Palestine” rally.
nypost.com nypost.com
 
One thing is certain: the situation is not going to be resolved from here, and perhaps it is necessary to be very careful about what is written in this thread at this present time?
 
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georgeingraham said:
I broke out my bible today to re-read revelations in an effort to try and understand what part of the current attempt to occupy Gaza and the inevitable genocide of innocent Palestinian civilians plays in revelations.

I would like to hear some point of views.
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I very much doubt if that will be of any use. However, there is some excellent literature out there. May I suggest "The One Hundred Year War on Palestine" by Rashid Khalidi.
 
georgeingraham said:
I broke out my bible today to re-read revelations in an effort to try and understand what part of the current attempt to occupy Gaza and the inevitable genocide of innocent Palestinian civilians plays in revelations.

I would like to hear some point of views.
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Here is a list that may help

www.heyalma.com

15 Books to Read to Better Understand the Modern History of Israel-Palestine - Hey Alma

So you want to learn more about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Welcome. Here’s a crowd-sourced guide from Team Alma to get you started. This whole list is shoppable on Bookshop, a platform supporting local bookstores.Before we dive in, a quick reminder: No history is unbiased. All historians...
www.heyalma.com www.heyalma.com
 
Anti Semitic semites have been smiting for how many thousands of years?

Has the death toll ever been balanced? It is one set of tribes trying to annihilate another set of tribes, a battle of Biblical proportions.
 
georgeingraham said:
I broke out my bible today to re-read revelations in an effort to try and understand what part of the current attempt to occupy Gaza and the inevitable genocide of innocent Palestinian civilians plays in revelations.

I would like to hear some point of views.
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You are referring to the book of Revelation eh?

The answer is whatever one decides to make of it. Coincidence, correlation and causation. The first is applicable, the others are surmised by internal bias...as far as I can see.
 
georgeingraham said:
I broke out my bible today to re-read revelations in an effort to try and understand what part of the current attempt to occupy Gaza and the inevitable genocide of innocent Palestinian civilians plays in revelations.

I would like to hear some point of views.
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Revelation 16 tells the story.

The battle of Armageddon started in 1914.

Regards Tony
 
It is my point of view that blood has the same color in every human being. The struggle for human rights does not differentiate between language, customs, religions, or sacred texts - these can't be weighed against each oher. Every human being is born equal, and all ethics must follow from that, and it is impossible to construct a scenario where it is ethically justifiable to kill civilians, no matter which market or music festival they visited. It is my point of view that revenge is not ethically justifiable, and only leads to more revenge - as can be observed all over the world, not just in the middle east.

If these views are reflected in any sacred scriptures, then that makes them good reading, in my opinion.
 
I hate seeing bloodshed. Yet I'm amazed how many people take sides like as if we're watching two sports teams combat each other. People are dying horrific deaths right now. I'm also watching as Guatemalans are suffering from political instability and I worry that war is going to break out again in that country. Many wonderful people living there.
 
georgeingraham said:
I broke out my bible today to re-read revelations in an effort to try and understand what part of the cuI rather think that depends on what opne's looking forrrent attempt to occupy Gaza and the inevitable genocide of innocent Palestinian civilians plays in revelations.

I would like to hear some point of views.
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Traditional Christianity East and West rejects any attempt to second-guess God, or mapping the Book onto present-day events, recalling the Scriptural warning against those who falsely proclaim "He is here!" (Mark 13:21). Rather, the Book, now as it probably was then, is meant to be seen as a warning to be ready for the end times, whenever they may come ("as a thief in the night" Revelation 16:15, cf 1 Thessalonians 5:2,4), but they will come at the time of God's choosing, not something that can be precipitated nor trivially deduced by mortals – "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36).

I do subscribe to the idea that the text touches on allegories and archetypes of the spiritual journey which, of course, will find its example in any age, any time, on a stage large or small – so Revelations could indeed address the fate of nations, but it can also address the fate of the individual in their personal journey.

To talk of a symbol referring to something in the physical world is an inversion of what symbolism actually is ... so rather than say this emblem or that signifies 'Rome' or 'Babylon' – the emblem points towards a higher reality, which manifests in aspects of Rome or Babylon ...

+++

Some will pattern the seemingly inexorable Rise of the Right in contemporary European politics on the Book, but again, Europe (if we are going to be Eurocentric) has suffered far worse than events in local history – the Black Death, the Thirty Years War ...

+++

It seems to me the Palestinian People are being ground between an unstoppable force and an immovable object – and neither side seems to care for those caught in the middle.
 
https://brownstone.org/articles/on-death-and-human-decency/

David Bell writes:
"Last week, some people with twisted minds unleashed a horror on the people in Israel. They have inflicted pain, humiliation, and death in ways that suggest the perpetrators have lost the basic tenets of human decency. They have unleashed death on innocent people in both Israel and Gaza.

They knew they were inciting a war that would devastate lives, families, and futures on both sides of the border. We should be saddened and appalled for what is unfolding. And appalled by those who are egging it on."
 
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Nicholas Weeks said:
They knew they were inciting a war that would devastate lives, families, and futures on both sides of the border. We should be saddened and appalled for what is unfolding. And appalled by those who are egging it on.
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Appalled certainly, but also a little hopeless and despairing that even on this site there are assumptions based in unexamined cognitive biases, and people who have developed unconscious biases on all sides of the argument are piling up Karma to f up their future.

Today, for instance, I heard that BLM had posted an offensive and antisemitic cartoon on X, and not for the first time. It is difficult to comprehend, particularly given that in Israel the population majority is non-white, and that BLM in America was set up with the help of local Jewish activists.

I do think that is part of what taking an incarnation is about. I don't think that the purpose of incarnation is to live a happy life, but to live a good life. It is to learn what we need to learn, to be able to love each other and/as ourselves, and, using our developing intuition, help our fellow man in any way we are gifted with along the way. That is the path of enlightened self-interest, if you like.

Many believe that spiritually developed people take one or more Jewish incarnations because it is a rapid way of working off the Karma of religious and racial prejudice, a past accumulation of which blocks their further development. Certainly over the past century it is obvious that Jews have found the required lessons and experiences easy to find, and hard to negotiate because of the pack animal nature of the human race. Jews are certainly not the only ones maturing through this process at the moment, and I'm sure there are other reasons why one would choose a Jewish birth, but it is a widely held belief in, for instance, Theosophical circles.

We could do worse than pray for forgiveness and healing for everyone involved, and be grateful that, for whatever reason, (if true) we aren't in the middle of it. I think doing that, and looking at the resistances we might feel in doing that, will be powerful pointers to the direction of our own spiritual development through this dreadful, unfolding, experiencing.
 
The leaders of both sides have blood on their hands...neither is innocent, imo.
 

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wil said:
Did you look at the chart? The facts on injury and death and stick to a claim of no blood on Jewish hands? Have you heard of their book called the Bible?
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Are you equating dead victims by terrorists with the Israelis striking back?

Have you read Fregosi - Jihad in the West?

Jihad in the West : muslim conquests from the 7th to the 21st centuries in SearchWorks catalog

Stanford Libraries' official online search tool for books, media, journals, databases, government documents and more.
searchworks.stanford.edu searchworks.stanford.edu

The Jews have never had all-conquering armies seeking to subjugate every nation they could.

Islamic armies have:

"Jihad, the Muslim holy war against Christians and others, has raged for 1300 years with bloody conquests in Europe dating from campaigns to convert the infidels in the 7th century to today's random acts of terrorism in the name of Allah. Yet this huge unrecorded 'hole' in European history has been censored and stifled by political and literary authorities who have feared reprisals from angry Muslims trying to hide a legacy of brutality vastly more bloody and six times longer in duration than the atrocities of the crusades."
 
From Paul Fregosi's Preface to Jihad in the West:

"THE JIHAD HAS HAD A long presence on our planet, going back to the early 600s, when Muhammad preached the Koran, ruled over Medina, and sent his followers to fight against the pagan Arab tribes of the peninsula, demanding they acknowledge his suzerainty and convert to Islam. The terrorism called Jihad we know today is linked, even if only by name, with these Muslim holy wars which began more than 1,300 years ago in Arabia and spread during the next 13 centuries to the Middle East, Europe, Africa, and Asia, and which are now also part of the North and South American scene. The military conflicts of former centuries, which all Muslims called the Jihad, and the terrorist campaigns of recent decades, which some extremists consider a Jihad also, not only share the same name. They are also an expression of the distaste and basic antagonism which Islam has always manifested toward the non-Muslim world, be it atheist, pagan,
Hindu, Sikh, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Buddhist, or Christian, and has often shown it by fighting it through the Jihad. We had forgotten this fact of international life, for most Muslim countries during the past century and a half were politically impotent, ruled mainly as colonies or protectorates of Britain, France, Italy, Spain, and Holland. They all regained their sovereignty late in the twentieth century. Recent events have reminded us of their existence and of their independence. Islam is back."
 
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