Aupmanyav
Search, be your own guru.
Surprises galore and interesting, always welcome, they make life interesting, but the necessity of God is a belief. Some people believe, some don't.
What is something you admire or appreciate?
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Aupmanyav
Search, be your own guru.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
That all already exists in my own religion. So what is new?
Hello there Aup, first time to reply to you though I have been admiring your posts here in silence for quite some time. Only the unknown can be new, IMO. Surely the unknown is always out there, no matter what our position with regard to religion is?
Yeah ... but at least we know the script!... you know nobody around here sticks to the script for long.
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Sorry to isolate the phrase out of context.
But belief has to be responded? No point otherwise? If the manual says press button 'A' to activate screen -- that has to happen? If not why carry on with it. So it's beyond belief, into personal experience of the divine?
Aupmanyav said:
I remember Davy Jones and the Monkees..
"I thought love was only true in fairy tales,
meant for someone else but not for me,
..
then I saw her face,
NOW I'M A BELIEVER"
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
Yeah ... but at least we know the script!
Lol, you've got me there...
I wanna know the script someday too... I'll be good, completely trustworthy. Love will compel me, I wouldn't have a choice. Love cracks the whip on me.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
I remember Davy Jones and the Monkees..
"I thought love was only true in fairy tales,
meant for someone else but not for me,
..
then I saw her face,
NOW I'M A BELIEVER"
I had that 45 record and loved it. Can't remember what was on the flip side, but it must have been good? I hope?
Aupmanyav
Search, be your own guru.
Thanks, Stranger, I am a bit rough at times. I have also gone through your posts and like them. Yeah, unknowns are interesting, science relentlessly tries to pursue them. But religion, IMHO, is a dead-end (because it does not and has no methodology to pursue the unknown). It stops with the books.
Aupmanyav
Search, be your own guru.
You remind me of the story of Emperor's new clothes.
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Most believers have a personal experience. A rescue of some sort. God/the divine assistance is the reality for them.You remind me of the story of Emperor's new clothes.
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Aupmanyav
Search, be your own guru.
Be careful. Faces may deceive.
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
No, not at all. You are sharp but not rough IMO. It could be seen as a play on words, but what I am saying is that there is a certain gentleness about you which I like.
Yes... I fully agree. Nice way of putting it.
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I hope I haven’t offended @Aupmanyav in some way by my clumsy wording?
Regardless of their scripture or religion, there are many people who believe they have a personal experience of the Divine/Spirit. To them it is a direct knowledge.
Atheists may deny the experience is real – that it is some sort of mental trick – but God is real to people who have experienced the Divine touch.
So they know that people are wrong who insist that God does not exist. They know their belief in God/Spirit does not make them silly or backward.
To have a set-in-stone belief that God does not exist is a person’s right. But it does not make that person right? It is just as much a belief as is the belief that God does exist.
Scientists are obviously quite correct not to allow their studies and findings to be limited by religious scriptures and beliefs. The problem is that it has swung too far the opposite way, and many scientists are now militantly atheistic. Science can insist that scripture is often wrong, in regard to science, but science cannot insist that God is a myth.
I am very interested in science. I personally have no problem acknowledging the Divine existence -- the Spirit that weaves nature -- while at the same time recognising and rejoicing the wonderful work of science into unravelling the mechanism of life and the universe.
My take …
Regardless of their scripture or religion, there are many people who believe they have a personal experience of the Divine/Spirit. To them it is a direct knowledge.
Atheists may deny the experience is real – that it is some sort of mental trick – but God is real to people who have experienced the Divine touch.
So they know that people are wrong who insist that God does not exist. They know their belief in God/Spirit does not make them silly or backward.
To have a set-in-stone belief that God does not exist is a person’s right. But it does not make that person right? It is just as much a belief as is the belief that God does exist.
Scientists are obviously quite correct not to allow their studies and findings to be limited by religious scriptures and beliefs. The problem is that it has swung too far the opposite way, and many scientists are now militantly atheistic. Science can insist that scripture is often wrong, in regard to science, but science cannot insist that God is a myth.
I am very interested in science. I personally have no problem acknowledging the Divine existence -- the Spirit that weaves nature -- while at the same time recognising and rejoicing the wonderful work of science into unravelling the mechanism of life and the universe.
My take …
stranger
the divine ignorance (and friends)
I had this very conversation with my sister yesterday, only not quite as eloquently as you have put it here. Imagine something similar, only with a drawl and halting sentences.
Basically her position was that believers and non-believers have no common ground, that they have boundaries which separate them and that this is irreconcilable. I begged to differ, but she was having none of it, so I didn't force the issue any further. I think she'll come around eventually though. I wish she could see your post here, it might help convince her. These things can't be rushed so I am patient just as others have been patient with me. Patience is a virtue.
Possible..
Narrated Unais bin 'Amr: Ahban bin Aus said, "I was amongst my sheep. Suddenly a wolf caught a sheep and I shouted at it. The wolf sat on its tail and addressed me, saying, 'Who will look after it (i.e. the sheep) when you will be busy and not able to look after it? Do you forbid me the provision which Allah has provided me?' " Ahban added, "I clapped my hands and said, 'By Allah, I have never seen anything more curious and wonderful than this!'
On that the wolf said, 'There is something (more curious) and wonderful than this; that is, Allah's Apostle in those palm trees, inviting people to Allah (i.e. Islam).' "Unais bin 'Amr further said, "Then Ahban went to Allah's Apostle and informed him what happened and embraced Islam."
I'm sure you will say that non-humans don't talk. It's called a miracle, like "the loaves and the fishes"
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Talk?
You mean communicate?
Even trees d and yoghurt does that.
Or if you mean make sounds which have meanings?
Dolphins whales dogs..plenty of them.
Oh you mean talk to us? Like great apes have learned?
Me neither...as far as the conventional belief/description goes.
But that doesn't stop me.from finding good in their texts and belief.
Ahanu
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I admire Thich Nhat Hanh's concept of interbeing, which, according to Wikipedia, is a term he coined to "represent the Buddhist principles of anatta, pratītyasamutpāda, and the Madhyamaka understanding of śūnyatā."