Thalidomide is still around. It's just not administeted to pregnant women anymore. Neither are the COV-19 vaccines.
Compulsory Covid Vaccination For Under 50 s
- Thread starter RJM
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I know, but only because the harmful effects became evident over time, in spite of original drug company assurances that it was safe
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There is no good reason to compel people to take the vaccine who are not in the age group most responsible for ICU bed occupancy. It doesn't prevent transmission, and they are not the ones using ICU beds?
Nor is hospital ICU bed usage responsible for dentists and local doctor surgeries not seeing pateints due to the covid pandemic?
Nor is hospital ICU bed usage responsible for dentists and local doctor surgeries not seeing pateints due to the covid pandemic?
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To be blunt: it is the beyond life expectancy age demographic most susceptible to ICU hospitalization who should be responsible for immunising and isolating, and not the rest of the majority of the population.
Perhaps special public transport coaches, theatre/restaurant seating and shopping times for over 65s etc. Brave new world. I don't know how it would be done
Other people who wish to immunize and isolate should of course be allowed but not compelled.
Covid isn't going away. It will keep mutating new variants. New vaccines will constantly be required and the travel and tourism industries, along with education and other areas, are never going to be allowed to recover.
IMO
Perhaps special public transport coaches, theatre/restaurant seating and shopping times for over 65s etc. Brave new world. I don't know how it would be done
Other people who wish to immunize and isolate should of course be allowed but not compelled.
Covid isn't going away. It will keep mutating new variants. New vaccines will constantly be required and the travel and tourism industries, along with education and other areas, are never going to be allowed to recover.
IMO
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We all know this..just like the flu and common cold..
But we must do what we can do to protect life....
Or never claim to have compassion or empathy again.
I frankly could care less about my own life...
I am highly concerned with those who have decades to live.....
And that is the reason for compulsory vaccinations with the best science can offer...and no more flights or eating insidelly restaurants for those who refuse.
I would gladly accept.a current test for antibodies...omicron will help mitigate this hopefullu
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
Waiting to see what the side-effects are isn't illogical. That's how science is done. There's just a lot of money in manufacturing and selling the vaccine right now, so the potential for negative side-effects is being dismissed by pharmaceutical-paid scientists.
That's not really mistrust. This is actually very common in science. It's one of the reasons why it's important to be scientifically literate, know who is funding what studies, and to read the studies yourself rather than rely on "science communicators."
Waiting to see what the side-effects actually are is common practice. So is large corporations downplaying the risks of new inventions to the public in order to make a quick buck. Mistrust here is completely rational and should be expected. Not having any mistrust seems to border on gullibility, like expecting a conservative news blog to accurately describe the beliefs of Left Libertarians.
Again, in science, the only way to know if something works and what its side-effects are is to test it and see; that's called empiricism. Science also has a long history of being distorted by large corporations selling particular products. Look at all of the research Exxon-Mobile funded to deny climate change, for instance. The first thing they taught me about science in 6th grade was to read the studies and not listen to these sort of pundits, and this has only been reinforced more as I'm pursuing my PhD.
It would be truly illogical to believe that the new vaccine is risk-free, or that it poses less of a risk than the virus, because we can't support either of these beliefs until we've seen the long-term effects of the vaccine.
I say all of this with a full belief that people should still get vaccinated and that businesses like restaurants have a responsibility to not allow unvaccinated anti-maskers into their establishments. It's forced vaccination that I'm opposed to, partially because the risk of serious long-term side-effects has not been ruled out; for all we know, getting the vaccine could be worse than getting COVID, especially in people under 50. That's the truly logical and scientific perspective.
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But these are exactly the ones most damaged by covid restrictions -- much more than by the disease itself -- not us old folks. It is their education and their careers that are being permanently damaged by the covid measures designed to protect mostly older people beyond average life expectancy. Vaccination of working age people does not prevent transmission, and no-one can assure its long-term safety. These are honest and serious points.
Nicholas Weeks
Bodhicitta
Covid policies destroyed medical ethics:
"Though it may be difficult to believe in the aftermath of COVID, the medical profession does possess a Code of Ethics. The four fundamental concepts of Medical Ethics – its 4 Pillars – are Autonomy, Beneficence, Non-maleficence, and Justice.
These ethical concepts are thoroughly established in the profession of medicine. I learned them as a medical student, much as a young Catholic learns the Apostle’s Creed. As a medical professor, I taught them to my students, and I made sure my students knew them. I believed then (and still do) that physicians must know the ethical tenets of their profession, because if they do not know them, they cannot follow them."
https://brownstone.org/articles/medical-ethics-destroyed-in-covid-response/
"Though it may be difficult to believe in the aftermath of COVID, the medical profession does possess a Code of Ethics. The four fundamental concepts of Medical Ethics – its 4 Pillars – are Autonomy, Beneficence, Non-maleficence, and Justice.
These ethical concepts are thoroughly established in the profession of medicine. I learned them as a medical student, much as a young Catholic learns the Apostle’s Creed. As a medical professor, I taught them to my students, and I made sure my students knew them. I believed then (and still do) that physicians must know the ethical tenets of their profession, because if they do not know them, they cannot follow them."
https://brownstone.org/articles/medical-ethics-destroyed-in-covid-response/
Reduces transmission, reduces severity of infection, reduces deaths, reduces time off work.
I am happy to have never caught the bug ... and will continue to take the jab. (As well as the ones for flu, pneumonia, shingles, rsv ...
I was anti big pharma and allopathic meds most my life ... right up till my death a few times 5 years ago ... lol. I appreciate the docs now ... and the fact that I am still posting here driving you all crazy!
Aupmanyav
Search, be your own guru.
covid is over for us. we do not talk of vaccination. we do not take any vaccination for common cold, but treat it with herbal 'kahwa'. let any new strain come, then we will talk of vaccination. there are no dissenters in india. every one goes for free vax when the government calls for it.
I tend to agree, but not universally.
What's lacking is discriminative discussion of the pandemic, the management, the decisions, the timing, etc.
The UK, it's now coming to light (in another piece of theatre called 'the Covid Inquiry') that we did really quite badly compared to the rest of the world.
I am pro vaccine – although generally I have a mistrust of Big Corporates of any ilk, there has been so much 'fake news' and far right ideology from the anti-vax brigade, and a noted lack of any actual evidence to support their claims ... I tend to go with the vaccinator lobby.
We had a similar anti-vax movement against the MMR vaccine here in the UK, it has now been shown to entirely fraudulent, but the damage was done, and there are still those who remember something about MMR and autism and don't get their kids immunised.
I would have thought, had anyone any actual evidence, there would be a significant trial in the US, with corporate lawyers sure to make millions out of the process one way or t'other ...
What I have discovered is the links between such viruses and really bad conditions like cancers, etc, which only suggest it's wiser to get immunised, as infections in the young can leads to an increased chance of a more serious condition in later life.
@RJM – it's sad, but the travel, leisure and entertainment industries are ill-suited to the management of pandemic spreads, so it's gonna come down on them harder than others, but that's inevitable.
The increase in homeworking – accelerated by the pandemic – has had an impact on city, no two ways around that.
Family friends of ours ran a sandwich bar in St Martin's Lane; they closed long before Covid because the office space around them was being converted to residential, and the patterns shift. The younger son wanted to apply for a drinks licence and switch to the early evening pre- and post-theatre crowd, but the family was against it, and eventually was obliged to close its doors.
The increase in homeworking – accelerated by the pandemic – has had an impact on city, no two ways around that.
Family friends of ours ran a sandwich bar in St Martin's Lane; they closed long before Covid because the office space around them was being converted to residential, and the patterns shift. The younger son wanted to apply for a drinks licence and switch to the early evening pre- and post-theatre crowd, but the family was against it, and eventually was obliged to close its doors.
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I'm convinced the hysterical 'be seen to be doing the right thing' political response to covid did far more lasting damage than covid itself.
They say covid caused overall excess deaths of a million in the UK -- highly sceptical of that figure, and how many of the excess deaths were caused by covid or by the covid responses, etc, etc ...
They say covid caused overall excess deaths of a million in the UK -- highly sceptical of that figure, and how many of the excess deaths were caused by covid or by the covid responses, etc, etc ...
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I think the political response was largely incompetent. Nutters like Cummings didn't help ...
One has to bear in mind that Boris had effectively got rid of any experienced conservative politicians ...
Deaths were excessive, nonetheless ... I think many claims that deaths by covid were exagerated were shown to be 'fake news' ... although I do accept conditions were exacerbated by ignorance and aforesaid incompetence and profiteering.
Hence we did worst than Europe, I think?
Ya got "countries lying about" more deaths from covid and others less deaths from covid.
China and North Korea did awesome eh?
There has only been one time in my life I have seen refrigerated trucks being used as morgues for sickness in US...
China and North Korea did awesome eh?
There has only been one time in my life I have seen refrigerated trucks being used as morgues for sickness in US...
Aupmanyav
Search, be your own guru.
well, that was the first time when we heard that there is a que for cremation.
All that whoo-ha about facemasks – as if it was some massive infringement of civil liberties.
When we went to Japan, years before, masks were commonplace. If you had a cold, anything, you masked up, it was just politeness.
People get to wound up about the most stupid things, and the things they should get wound up about, they're not really interested in.
When we went to Japan, years before, masks were commonplace. If you had a cold, anything, you masked up, it was just politeness.
People get to wound up about the most stupid things, and the things they should get wound up about, they're not really interested in.