WORLD RELIGIONS

RJM

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Therefore God do not want any name and fame here. He is already fed up with extensive fame and name in the upper-world and hence for a change He comes down to this world in human form so that He even enjoys insult and negligence by His children here!
That's a good one o_O
 

dattaswami2

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@dattaswami2
Is that you in your avatar?No need reply ...

Seeing God in human form is not that great. Even roman soldiers seen then God in human form Jesus. But they could not identify Him as God in human form. In fact they crucified Him. Even the governor pilatose asked Jesus casually what is truth. Jesus did not reply because the question is not that much interested in knowing the truth and casually he asked Jesus what is the truth. Hence Jesus did not reply anything and He kept mum.
 

RJM

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Seeing God in human form is not that great. Even roman soldiers seen then God in human form Jesus. But they could not identify Him as God in human form. In fact they crucified Him. Even the governor pilatose asked Jesus casually what is truth. Jesus did not reply because the question is not that much interested in knowing the truth and casually he asked Jesus what is the truth. Hence Jesus did not reply anything and He kept mum.
But you have rays coming out of your head, bro?
 

dattaswami2

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But you have rays coming out of your head, bro?
When God comes to this world in human form, He will look exactly like an ordinary human being, so that one can approach Him easily and ask spiritual doubts. If God speaks from heaven then tension and anxiety will be created in the minds of the people and they will not understand properly what God want to convey. If God comes in the form of an animal and speaks then tension and excitement will be created in the minds of the people. Hence God always comes in a natural way in human form. He will have birth, death, sleep, hunger etc like an ordinary human being. But He preaches excellent divine knowledge which no body else can preach. That is the identity mark of God in human form.

There is nothing special in rays in the photo. A photo is only a photo whether it is with rays or not with rays. Divine knowledge preached by God in human form is important and not photo or rays or outer appearance etc.
 
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Thomas

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God is unimaginable.
I think what you're saying is God transcends our powers of comprehension, with which I agree. But that does not mean He cannot be known, He cannot be sensed. God is Transcendent, but also Immanent.

He do not possess any spatial coordinates ...
Yes, we all know that. These space-time references are unneccesary.

He created the entire universe for His own entertainment.
I don't think so, but this might be a language thing. Entertainment is not a suitable word.

He created because He can. He created because He chooses to, as it pleases Him.

But He does not need entertaining.

If creation is entirely pervaded by God then even a criminal will have God in him!!! It is not so.
Yes, it is so, else a criminal could never repent.

Whoever had seen such alive human form of God had seen God only, this is the only way for us human beings to see God.
No, you're quite wrong.

"... you have received the spirit of adoption of sons, whereby we cry: Abba (Father)." (Romans 8:15), "And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father." (Galatians 4:6).

In our Tradition we say: "the Holy Spirit reveals the Son, and the Son reveals the Father" – what this means is the eye of the soul sees, not the eye in the head. The physical eye can be deceived, can be mistaken, but when the soul sees, it sees clearly. I do not need to see the Incarnate Son of God in the flesh to believe in Him.
 

dattaswami2

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I t

I don't think so, but this might be a language thing. Entertainment is not a suitable word.

He created because He can. He created because He chooses to, as it pleases Him.

But He does not need entertaining.
.
God created this entire universe for His own entertainment only. But God is not a sadist. People are also there in this world living happily. They are also enjoying. HE was alone, hence He was not entertained. A single person cannot entertain hence He wanted a second item. Therefore He created this world.He created both inert and non-inert items so that the whole drama aimed at entertainment is possible.

God is always in climax happiness with highest value but when He was alone this bliss was one variety only and for getting other variety of bliss He wanted dualism. Remember that God did not want higher quantity of bliss, the bliss He was having even before creation was already the highest. He wanted for a different situation in a qualitative aspect and not quantitative aspect.The king in the palace is very happy and the same king when he goes to a forest for hunting is also very happy. There is no difference in the happiness possessed by the king in the palace and in the forest. He wanted just a different atmosphere, which is the second item since the first item is the palace.

Such desire does not show any deficiency in the first item or any more greatness in the second item. Therefore, such a desire is not like our worldly desires in which we try something different to compensate our deficiency in the existing present situation. Hence, nobody can find fault with God or the king in this context. This is called as just a change for passing time.
 

Thomas

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God created this entire universe for His own entertainment only...
Again, it's a language thing, but entertainment I would not consider a fitting word.

HE was alone, hence He was not entertained. A single person cannot entertain hence He wanted a second item. Therefore He created this world. He created both inert and non-inert items so that the whole drama aimed at entertainment is possible.
You are assuming God is subject to human desires, which He is not.

God is. God needs nor wants for nothing.

The concept of 'alone' is numerical, God is not subject to number.

God is always in climax happiness with highest value but when He was alone this bliss was one variety only and for getting other variety of bliss He wanted dualism.
No. Again, you are assuming God lacks something.

God lacks for nothing.

If you say 'He wanted dualism' there is already dualism in God. God cannot want what He already Is.
 

dattaswami2

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Again, it's a language thing, but entertainment I would not consider a fitting word.


You are assuming God is subject to human desires, which He is not.

God is. God needs nor wants for nothing.

The concept of 'alone' is numerical, God is not subject to number.


No. Again, you are assuming God lacks something.

God lacks for nothing.

If you say 'He wanted dualism' there is already dualism in God. God cannot want what He already Is.
You did not understood my reply properly. God is already satisifed evenwhen He was alone!! But He needed a variety. Hence He created this entire universe. An ordinary man is entertained by several useless and cheap items. The entertainment of God is not for such cheap items just to kill the time. God is beyond time and need not kill it. If you observe this creation carefully, every soul is giving highest value for the concept of love. The enjoyment of pure love proved by various tests is the climax of entertainment and nothing is equal to this. Every soul obtains the maximum climax of happiness only in love. When such love is real as proved by severe tests, the happiness of the soul reaches its climax and this is called as a specific bliss.


Hence, the sole purpose of this creation is to enjoy this specific bliss. God has already this variety of bliss. But, when this type of bliss comes in a scene showing devotees proving their real love to God, the bliss is really enjoyable. For such scene, God alone is not sufficient. Something and somebody other than God also must exist. God is not entertained because of not having such bliss expressed in a scene containing multiplicity of items like various entities of creation and various souls. A soul like Radha(a female devotee of God) is required to prove such real and extraordinary love to God. Such proof comes only when other souls opposing Radha also exist as the required components of the scene. In such multiple creation only, the proof of the real love can be expressed causing the unique bliss.


Bliss without creation exists in God before this creation. Same bliss in the light of the scene of creation looks as a different bliss. It is another variety of bliss. Hence, we can say that God was fond of this specific variety of bliss for entertainment. Such bliss is not possible if God is alone.
 

Thomas

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You did not understood my reply properly.
I understand you better now.

Let me explain from the Western viewpoint.

From Plato on, the Greek philosophers tended to agree that 'it is in the nature of the good to communicate itself'.

Thus God caused creation, not for His entertainment, but from His abundance, the excess of His goodness.

No other reason.

+++

But He needed a variety.
Why? God is Undifferentiated. He does not need difference.

If you observe this creation carefully, every soul is giving highest value for the concept of love.

Indeed, but God has no need of that love, He is all that He is and needs nothing.

God has already this variety of bliss.
God is Bliss.

For such scene, God alone is not sufficient. Something and somebody other than God also must exist.
Not necessarily.

As you say, God enjoys bliss before creatioon existed. Creation aims to participate in that Divine Bliss – there is no variety of bliss, there is only variety of creatures that enjoy bliss, but the bliss they enjoy is divine and is their attachment, their union, their participation in the bliss of God.

For God there is no variety – for creatures there is because their abilities to experience God differ.

A soul like Radha(a female devotee of God) is required to prove such real and extraordinary love to God. Such proof comes only when other souls opposing Radha also exist as the required components of the scene. In such multiple creation only, the proof of the real love can be expressed causing the unique bliss.
I would say this applies to us, not to God.


Bliss without creation exists in God before this creation. Same bliss in the light of the scene of creation looks as a different bliss. It is another variety of bliss. Hence, we can say that God was fond of this specific variety of bliss for entertainment. Such bliss is not possible if God is alone.
 

dattaswami2

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I understand you better now.

Let me explain from the Western viewpoint.

From Plato on, the Greek philosophers tended to agree that 'it is in the nature of the good to communicate itself'.

Thus God caused creation, not for His entertainment, but from His abundance, the excess of His goodness.

No other reason.

+++


Why? God is Undifferentiated. He does not need difference.


Indeed, but God has no need of that love, He is all that He is and needs nothing.


God is Bliss.


Not necessarily.

As you say, God enjoys bliss before creatioon existed. Creation aims to participate in that Divine Bliss – there is no variety of bliss, there is only variety of creatures that enjoy bliss, but the bliss they enjoy is divine and is their attachment, their union, their participation in the bliss of God.

For God there is no variety – for creatures there is because their abilities to experience God differ.


I would say this applies to us, not to God.
We can say that though He was fully happy, He wanted enjoy this variety of happiness. Same point is explained in the Brahma Sutra (Lokavattu lilaakaivalyam). The entire world acts like filling material only and the real spark is that single blessed divine soul only. If you understand the value of this variety of bliss, you will not misunderstand God and the purpose of His creation.

You can analyze this topic from your side also. If creation is not done by God, can you enjoy such bliss from another soul? Why don’t you think the importance of this creation from your side also? When suffering comes, you say that you have to suffer in this creation, which was created by God for His entertainment. You say “Shall I suffer for the sake of the entertainment of God?”

Parabrahman or unimaginable God wanted to create the world with souls for His entertainment, in which love and devotion with the souls is the essence for which meditation and worship are essential. Anticipating all this in the future creation, even before creating the creation, the unimaginable God created a little space called ‘Paramavyoma’ and a little quantity of inert energy, with which both body and soul of the first energetic form were prepared.


This is the first energetic being created by Parabrahman even before creating this entire universe. Since Parabrahman is unimaginable and can’t be even meditated (not to speak of worship), Parabrahman created the first energetic being occupying some space for the sake of worship of the future souls. It means, Parabrahman created space, energetic soul or awareness and energetic body in the beginning.
 

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We can say that though He was fully happy, He wanted enjoy this variety of happiness.
'variety' is a numerical and a qualitative value – and God is above number, above quality.

God's Bliss is Absolute, Infinite, Unconditioned ...
 

RJM

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@dattaswami2 is wrong to say the devotee's love for God should be focussed upon @dattaswami2 himself in order to be successful.

Sri Ramakrishna often experienced samadhi -- the bliss of God realization. He would go into a trance of pure God realization. He did not require the presence of a guru or anyone else as an object of the focus of his pure love for God alone
 
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dattaswami2

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'variety' is a numerical and a qualitative value – and God is above number, above quality.

God's Bliss is Absolute, Infinite, Unconditioned ...
The Veda says that God was not entertained in monism and wanted entertainment in dualism (Ekākī na ramate sa dvitīyamaicchat). These two statements have deep meaning of the concept. By this, you cannot compare God to an ordinary human king going for hunting the deer even though he was not in requirement of the meat of the deer (Lokavattu - Brahasūtram). If this is said to be the bliss of human level (mānuṣa ānanda), the divine bliss of God is far far higher (Sa eko Brahmaṇa ānandaḥ).

Even though God was enjoying the ocean of bliss in monism, He wanted to enjoy the bliss in dualism as a different variety. In the bliss of monism, He is loving Himself. In the bliss of dualism, He is loved by the devotee and in return He loves the devotee. This bliss of dualism is more attractive. Prahlada, Meera etc., are such examples of climax love without aspiration of any fruit in return. To achieve the taste of such dualistic love, God created the entire drama containing all other filler details. Even though you enjoy the climax scene of the cinema, the entire show of the cinema is to be seen for the sake of that special climax scene.
 

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@dattaswami2 is wrong to say the devotee's love for God should be focussed upon @dattaswami2 himself in order to be successful.

Sri Ramakrishna often experienced samadhi -- the bliss of God realization. He would go into a trance of pure God realization. He did not require the presence of a guru or anyone else as an object of the focus of his pure love for God alone
God do not want anybodys worship or love. God wish from the humanity is that one shall follow justice and avoid injustice. That much only God want from you. Nothing more than that!! Please understand this crucial point. If you realize, repent and do not repeat any sins from today onwards all your past sins will be forgiven by God and you will live happily in this world for ever.
 

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Does @dattaswami2 wash the feet of his disciples, as Jesus did?
When God came as Jesus, in that area the social setup was such that people are giving violence against violence, etc. That was their standard, in the worldly justice itself they were at a very low level. To such a level of people, God came as Jesus and preached about even loving ones own enemies. He preached the path of love and devotion to God to His disciples. But to the common public He concentrated on preaching about justice and loving one another and social service. To His disciples He declared that He is God Himself, not to common public. Common public cannot digest such higher truth. To them He preached about social service, loving one another, abstaining from the various sins etc. God Jesus is an impartial God, hence comes to this world in every human generation to preach and uplift us through His excellent divine knowledge.
 

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God do not want anybodys worship or love.
Then you say.....:rolleyes:
He preached the path of love and devotion to God to His disciples
From the Bhagavad Gita:

BG 9.26: If one offers to Me with devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or even water, I delightfully partake of that item offered with love by My devotee in pure consciousness.
BG 18.55: Only by loving devotion to Me does one come to know who I am in Truth. Then, having come to know Me, My devotee enters into full consciousness of Me.

Seems to me, Love is all God really wants from us...
 

dattaswami2

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Then you say.....:rolleyes:

From the Bhagavad Gita:

BG 9.26: If one offers to Me with devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or even water, I delightfully partake of that item offered with love by My devotee in pure consciousness.
BG 18.55: Only by loving devotion to Me does one come to know who I am in Truth. Then, having come to know Me, My devotee enters into full consciousness of Me.

Seems to me, Love is all God really wants from us...
Yes good one!! God need anybody's love or service. It is for our benefit only we can develop love on God and serve Him. But in such case He will put lot of tests to show you whether you are really love Him or not. God is not a politician He tells that one shall love Him!! If a lover ask the girl friend to love Him how she will feel!! The path of love is not desired by God, it shall come from the side of devotees alone. God do not promote the love to Him because then it like self projection and promotion. Human beings do all sorts such tricks. He put lot of hurdles for devotees who really want to love Him and serve Him. The love and service is from the side of the devotee only due to the attraction of the divine personality of God. God do not forced on anybody. The devotees himself wanted to serve God due to devotion to Him. God comes to this world to establish justice. He never said that He came to establish devotion in the hearts of the people. He said that He incarnate to uplift human beings so that peace will be maintained in the society by preaching justice.
 

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Then you say.....:rolleyes:

From the Bhagavad Gita:

BG 9.26: If one offers to Me with devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit, or even water, I delightfully partake of that item offered with love by My devotee in pure consciousness.
BG 18.55: Only by loving devotion to Me does one come to know who I am in Truth. Then, having come to know Me, My devotee enters into full consciousness of Me.

Seems to me, Love is all God really wants from us...

Note He never said to offer leaf or flower to Him. He says that if anybody by his own will come forward and offer lead or flower He accept it. He do not reject it.
Also in the second verse you quoted, there also He just shows the path and never force it on anybody. It is upto the devotee to follow it or not.
 
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