Religion of love?

[moralorel]

(Leviticus 21:17-24)
God does not want these people coming into his churches: People with blemishes, blind people, the lame, those with flat noses, dwarves, people with scurvy, people with bad eyes, people with bad skin, and those that "hath their stones broken." God is technically responsible for giving people all of these afflictions in the first place.

1 Chronicles 21
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people

Deuteronomy 3
-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value

Joshua 6
-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses”
-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

2 Kings 10:18-27
God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

Judges 21:10-24
God has an entire town killed and the virgins repeatedly raped, and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more.

Numbers 31:7-18
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men . . . Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Deuteronomy 20:10-14
"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."

Deuteronomy 21:10-14
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house . . . After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife."

. . . I mean, really?

As was already mentioned, none of this mentions Christians being ordered to hate other Christians. Christianity didn't exist during the verses you are mentioning. So..... really?

 

[Cino]

As was already mentioned, none of this mentions Christians being ordered to hate other Christians. Christianity didn't exist during the verses you are mentioning. So..... really?

Christians still consider the Hebrew Bible part of their own holy scriptures. So they need to "own" those verses, too.

 

[Aupmanyav]

. . . I mean, really?

That is nullified by what the books say on other pages and what their adherents do.

 

[moralorel]

Christians still consider the Hebrew Bible part of their own holy scriptures. So they need to "own" those verses, too.

I understand that. Definitely. But explaining those verses is really going to take some time. Not sure if there is a point when I've already seen these cherry picked verses being taken out of context. They're from the Google School of Theology. I've seen them cut and pasted all over forums. Not once has there been a point in wasting my time explaining each and every situation when I know the person won't listen.

 

[Cino]

I understand that. Definitely. But explaining those verses is really going to take some time. Not sure if there is a point when I've already seen these cherry picked verses being taken out of context. They're from the Google School of Theology. I've seen them cut and pasted all over forums. Not once has there been a point in wasting my time explaining each and every situation when I know the person won't listen.

Oh, I understand that, too. Cherry picking is a temptation to us all, and so it is good of you to mention it. Sometimes, some Christians brush aside difficult-to-hold passages by cherry-picking Pauline texts, or Acts

This is not the thread for going into the details of Christian Bible exegesis, though.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Christians still consider the Hebrew Bible part of their own holy scriptures. So they need to "own" those verses, too.

We also consider that God is the creator and He is sovereign. We don't question Him and we don't mock Him. I know why He did what He did in each of those verses in context but the length of time it would take to explain each of those verses to someone who really doesn't want to listen but to accuse is pointless. I just really feel the point was to point out the error in stating that the bible says Christians should hate non Christians. Its a trap.

 

[Cino]

I just really feel the point was to point out the error in stating that the bible says Christians should hate non Christians. Its a trap.

Yes, and it is not really fair to spring it on you. On the other hand, I myself have been on the receiving end of "Christians hating non-Christians", where biblical verses were quoted in support of this attitude. So, unfortunate as it is, some Christians do fall into this trap.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

As was already mentioned, none of this mentions Christians being ordered to hate other Christians. Christianity didn't exist during the verses you are mentioning. So..... really?

Reply removed at user's own request

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

That is nullified by what the books say on other pages and what their adherents do.

Reply removed at user's own request

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

As was already mentioned, none of this mentions Christians being ordered to hate other Christians. Christianity didn't exist during the verses you are mentioning. So..... really?

Reply removed at user's own request

 

[moralorel]

Really? So, being a Christian one would ignore the commands to annihilate another because those specific scriptures don't contain the words "ordered to hate"? Are you as blind and bigoted as the very words I posted?

You said that the Bible tells Christians to hate non-Christians. You still haven't provided a verse that states this claim. If God ordered the Israelites to attack an enemy thousands of years ago, that does not IN ANY WAY mean that a Christian should go out and do the same. Do you seriously believe that if someone claims to be a Christian, they should go out and try to kill the offspring of the Amalakites?

 

[Aupmanyav]

"God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (Rev. 22:18–19.)
"We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." — 2 Corinthians 10:5

As a strong atheist, I do not believe in the possibility of in existence of God or of soul. So, this threat only amuses me. And the 3rd Century or the 7th Century (or the 19th Century books) that they wave at an atheist, IMHO, are full of ignorance and superstition. The theists have no argument even to make an atheist interested in their imaginary schemes.

 

[Thomas]

This is when an understanding of the development of the Bible and the genres of the narratives therein are useful.

 

[Faithfulservant]

God’s wrath is His love in action against sin. This means that God must act justly and judge sin ( respond with wrath), otherwise God would not be God. He is a Holy and perfect God that cannot abide with sin. Jesus was the answer to this. His perfect love made a way for us to exist with a Holy and perfect God. The sacrifice made on the cross was an act of perfect love.

 

[EricPH]

Really? So, being a Christian one would ignore the commands to annihilate another because those specific scriptures don't contain the words "ordered to hate"? Are you as blind and bigoted as the very words I posted?

Jesus gave us two greatest commandments, meaning we cannot do anything greater than love God, and love All our neighbours as we love ourselves. We are asked to forgive, love and pray for our enemies too. Every other commandment Jesus gave us are less important than the two greatest.

Jesus did not say the greatest commandments were to hate and annihilate anyone.

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Jesus gave us two greatest commandments, meaning we cannot do anything greater than love God, and love All our neighbours as we love ourselves. We are asked to forgive, love and pray for our enemies too. Every other commandment Jesus gave us are less important than the two greatest.

Jesus did not say the greatest commandments were to hate and annihilate anyone.

Reply removed at user's own request

 

['Amir Alzzalam]

Not a

You said that the Bible tells Christians to hate non-Christians. You still haven't provided a verse that states this claim. If God ordered the Israelites to attack an enemy thousands of years ago, that does not IN ANY WAY mean that a Christian should go out and do the same. Do you seriously believe that if someone claims to be a Christian, they should go out and try to kill the offspring of the Amalakites?

Reply removed at user's own request

 

[EricPH]

Not a problem . . .

You missed out Genesis 6, when God orders the flood. The first couple of sentences say why God ordered the flood, and mankind has not changed.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

It was God's intention from the start that we should love God and love all our neighbours as we love ourselves. These simple instructions are a stumbling block for us, there is evil in the world because we cannot be kind to each other.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

which words were used in the Bible and simply translated as love?


Sounds like love to me.
Um...err...ok

I Greek (Gospel/NT and Septuagint), the word used is αγαπη

The new commandment of Jesus (p.b.u.h.) (which is not new as a principle, but it hasn't been formulated as a commandment), according to John (a.s.) is

John 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
John 15:13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

which is in Greek

15:12 αύτη εστίν η εντολή η εμή,ίνα αγαπάτε αλλήλους καθώς ηγάπησα υμάς.
15:13 μείζονα ταύτης αγάπην ουδείς έχει,ίνα τις τήν ψυχήν αυτούθή υπέρ τών φίλων αυτού.

Among the classical - even all languages I know - languages, Greek has the best distinguished word for the love that is meant. It is not just a "like", but an attitude in first place and a feeling in second, and it has not link to erotic love, for which Greek uses the word ερoς.

In Hebrew, the word root is אָהֵ֑ב.
It stands for love, friendship and good relation; used as a verb and a noun. In the Tanach vs. Septuaging, we find this word root often translated as αγαπη.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

Not a

Not a problem . . .

(4 Kings 2:23-24)
God sent two bears to maul 42 kids to death for making fun of a bald dude.
(Genesis 19:26)
God turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt for breaking a rule she didn't know existed.
(Leviticus 21:17-24)
God does not want coming into his churches: People with blemishes, blind people, the lame, those with flat noses, dwarves, people with scurvy, people with bad eyes, people with bad skin, and those that "hath their stones broken." God is technically responsible for giving people all of these afflictions in the first place.
(Exodus 4:24-26)
There is literally no explanation given in the Bible for God's decision to murder one of his chief supporters. The line is "At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him." The only sensible explanation for this is that God was drunk out of his mind and looking for a bar fight, and you better hope that's correct because the alternative is that God's a psychopath.
(Genesis 38:1-10)
Onan and his brother Er. God does not care for Er, and kills him. Standard God operating procedure. Onan's father orders Onan to have sex with Er's wife — not marry, by the way, just have sex with. This is actually pretty awkward for Onan, sleeping with his sister-in-law, and rather than give her any more kids (she had two with Er already) he pulls out. God is so infuriated that Onan did not fuck his sister-in-law to completion that he kills him, too. Now, you could argue that God demands that intercourse be used specifically for procreation, but given how much God loves killing babies and children, I don't think his motives here are exceptionally pure.
(Judges 14:1-19)
More evidence that God is possibly a low-level mobster: When his pal Samson got married, he was given 30 friends, and he posed them (a completely insane) riddle. Then he made a bet that if they could solve it in a week, Samson would give them all new clothes, but if they couldn't they would give Samson 30 pairs of new clothes. Well, Samson's wife wheedled the answer out of him and then told these dudes, at which point an angry Samson had to pay up. And here's where God comes in — literally, into Samson, giving him the power to murder 30 random people for their clothes. Only a true friend would help you commit mass murder to settle a completely stupid bet.
1 Chronicles 21
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people
Deuteronomy 3
-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value
Joshua 6
-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses”
-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead
2 Kings 10:18-27
God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!
Judges 21:10-24
God has an entire town killed and the virgins repeatedly raped, and then wanted more virgins, so they hid beside the road to kidnap and rape some more.
Numbers 31:7-18
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men . . . Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
"As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you."
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house . . . After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife."

You say: the Bible tells Christians to hate non-Christians. On the passages cited:
- they are all from the Tanach
- you have distorted many passages to make your point
- you did not cite the Word come through teh righteous prophets, but history tellings and martial law (which in fact are restictions in a situation in war, saying what is forbidden or allowed, not what is recommended or commanded to be done)
- No passage commands to hate non-Christians, or even non-Jews (as the religion had not divided into two at the time)

Jesus (p.b.u.h) said even (as a Law of the Kingdom of God):

Luke 6

27But to those of you who will listen, I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone takes your cloak, do not withhold your tunic as well. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what is yours, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full.

35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Matthew 5

38You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’o 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well; 41and if someone forces you to go one mile,p go with him two miles.q 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

43You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,s 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same?

48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

(Berean Standard Bible)

There has never been a commandment from Him to to hate the enemy. There is no commandment to be found in the Tanach or in the Quran that Jews or Muslims should hate their enemy, either, although the commandment to love the enemies is only to be found in the Word come through Jesus (p.b.u.h), for those who work on the Kingdom of God at present and prepare for Jannah. These are high commandments that cannot be fulfilled without the Help of God, and even true believers may fail. Nevertheless, this is the Word of God; it is not only directed to Christians (who at least read it) but also to Jews, Muslims and all other humans.