Some thoughts

[Faithfulservant]

I feel like I'm living in some weird alternate reality. Lately I've been accused of being a heretic that I follow doctrines of demons that Jesus is not God.. that the Holy Spirit is not God. That Paul is a false prophet. That there's whole new language that's supposed to be Hebrew but doesn't resemble Hebrew at all. That John 3:16 is scripture but there are additional requirements to salvation and baptism isn't even one of them! That we must follow the law but not ALL of the law just parts of it. That the Holy Bible that is my spiritual food is wrong. That I'm referring to my God as the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit wrong. Jesus spoke Aramaic when He cried out to His Father.. Abba. Or was that wrong too? I feel beset by so many opinions on what is truth but I know the truth for me. I am not here to be converted to someone else's interpretation of the truth. I'm here to discuss what MY faith teaches.im not interested in becoming Muslim or gnostic or some Gentile based Messianic Judaism or anything that denies what I believe. It's overwhelming and I can't help but feel the spiritual warfare involved. Every single attack revolves around some aspect of my belief trying to tear it down.God does NOT work like that.

Ok my vent is over. Sorry y'all I just needed to get it out!

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I'm here to discuss what MY faith teaches.im not interested in becoming Muslim or gnostic or some Gentile based Messianic Judaism or anything that denies what I believe. It's overwhelming and I can't help but feel the spiritual warfare involved. Every single attack revolves around some aspect of my belief trying to tear it down.God does NOT work like that..

If anybody can persuade me that my beliefs are incorrect, then I'm willing to listen.

I sometimes feel like I'm being attacked .. particularly by a bunch of atheists for example,
who want to tell me that I'm a woman-hater, due to my beliefs about the importance of marriage.
i.e. they insist marriage should not imply consent

 

[Faithfulservant]

If anybody can persuade me that my beliefs are incorrect, then I'm willing to listen.

I sometimes feel like I'm being attacked .. particularly by a bunch of atheists for example,
who want to tell me that I'm a woman-hater, due to my beliefs about the importance of marriage.
i.e. they insist marriage should not imply consent

I get that too.. I feel like I receive animosity for things that I never participated in. I believe marriage is important too and is ordained by God. I believe a lot of problems we face today is that both parents aren't in the home and I believe that's one of the enemies biggest agendas is to break up the family unit.

 

[TheLightWithin]

If anybody can persuade me that my beliefs are incorrect, then I'm willing to listen.

I sometimes feel like I'm being attacked .. particularly by a bunch of atheists for example,
who want to tell me that I'm a woman-hater, due to my beliefs about the importance of marriage.
i.e. they insist marriage should not imply consent

Well, but what do they mean? Consent to what? What are they referring to/what topical conversations lead to remarks like that from atheists?

 

[TheLightWithin]

I feel like I'm living in some weird alternate reality. Lately I've been accused of being a heretic that I follow doctrines of demons that Jesus is not God.. that the Holy Spirit is not God. That Paul is a false prophet. That there's whole new language that's supposed to be Hebrew but doesn't resemble Hebrew at all. That John 3:16 is scripture but there are additional requirements to salvation and baptism isn't even one of them! That we must follow the law but not ALL of the law just parts of it. That the Holy Bible that is my spiritual food is wrong. That I'm referring to my God as the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit wrong. Jesus spoke Aramaic when He cried out to His Father.. Abba. Or was that wrong too? I feel beset by so many opinions on what is truth but I know the truth for me. I am not here to be converted to someone else's interpretation of the truth. I'm here to discuss what MY faith teaches.im not interested in becoming Muslim or gnostic or some Gentile based Messianic Judaism or anything that denies what I believe. It's overwhelming and I can't help but feel the spiritual warfare involved. Every single attack revolves around some aspect of my belief trying to tear it down.God does NOT work like that.

Ok my vent is over. Sorry y'all I just needed to get it out!

Do you mean just on this forum or all together including other forums and/or real life conversations?
There are so many and varied beliefs out there none of those possible claims surprise me.
I don't know their motives, if they're belligerent or whatever, but, IMO, calling it warfare is giving too much credit to it or too much power to what amounts to a bunch of different wild opinions someone arrived at and got enthusiastic about.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Do you mean just on this forum or all together including other forums and/or real life conversations?
There are so many and varied beliefs out there none of those possible claims surprise me.
I don't know their motives, if they're belligerent or whatever, but, IMO, calling it warfare is giving too much credit to it or too much power to what amounts to a bunch of different wild opinions someone arrived at and got enthusiastic about.

You're probably right.

 

[Thomas]

I feel like I'm living in some weird alternate reality ...

Hang on in there.

Being a Brit, it is, of course, a bit like the weather.

Here at IO we sometimes have our doldrums, periods of calm and inactivity, and then storms whip in out of nowhere ... choppy waters, cold rain, noise, the rattling of window-frames and the slamming of doors ... and then it passes, and a kind of peace returns, and the old hands sweep up the leaves and make a mote to look at that shutter.

... Shall I pop the kettle on?

 

[Faithfulservant]

Hang on in there.

Being a Brit, it is, of course, a bit like the weather.

Here at IO we sometimes have our doldrums, periods of calm and inactivity, and then storms whip in out of nowhere ... choppy waters, cold rain, noise, the rattling of window-frames and the slamming of doors ... and then it passes, and a kind of peace returns, and the old hands sweep up the leaves and make a mote to look at that shutter.

... Shall I pop the kettle on?

So ironic you say this. We have a beautiful Texas storm rolling through. Thunder rattling the windows lightening flashing across the sky rain pouring down. Yes! tea sounds amazing right now.

 

[Leveller]

If anybody can persuade me that my beliefs are incorrect, then I'm willing to listen.

Well said, that is my attitude too. I will never dismiss another faith unless I am sufficiently qualified to do so.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well, but what do they mean? Consent to what? What are they referring to/what topical conversations lead to remarks like that from atheists?

The topic of morality.
Society has changed drastically since the discovery of the contraceptive pill..

The sexual revolution, also known as the sexual liberation, was a social movement that challenged traditional codes of behavior related to sexuality and interpersonal relationships throughout the developed Western world from the 1960s to the 1970s. Sexual liberation included increased acceptance of sex outside of traditional heterosexual, monogamous relationships (primarily marriage). The normalization of contraception and the pill, public nudity, pornography, premarital sex, homosexuality, masturbation, alternative forms of sexuality, and the legalization of abortion all followed.
Sexual_revolution - Wikipedia

 

[TheLightWithin]

The topic of morality.
Society has changed drastically since the discovery of the contraceptive pill..

The sexual revolution, also known as the sexual liberation, was a social movement that challenged traditional codes of behavior related to sexuality and interpersonal relationships throughout the developed Western world from the 1960s to the 1970s. Sexual liberation included increased acceptance of sex outside of traditional heterosexual, monogamous relationships (primarily marriage). The normalization of contraception and the pill, public nudity, pornography, premarital sex, homosexuality, masturbation, alternative forms of sexuality, and the legalization of abortion all followed.
Sexual_revolution - Wikipedia

Ok but I'm not sure that answers the question "consent to what" or "marriage implies consent"
Consent to what? I think you mean consent to sex, but why answer so indirectly?
I have some thoughts and responses about what you said above
@muhammad_isa said
"I sometimes feel like I'm being attacked .. particularly by a bunch of atheists for example,
who want to tell me that I'm a woman-hater, due to my beliefs about the importance of marriage.
i.e. they insist marriage should not imply consent"
I have some thoughts.... BUT... I don't want to assume and project too much without the context of the conversation you are talking about.
What atheists? What exactly do they say, in response to what? In what context?
What does atheism have to do with their views? Might religious humanists, New Agers, the spiritual but not religious, or religious liberals not have similar views?
I want to get a clearer sense of context here before I launch into anything or make too many assumptions.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I want to get a clearer sense of context here before I launch into anything or make too many assumptions.

Feel free to "attack me"..
Yes, I believe that the institution of marriage implies consent to the sexual act.
In such a society, it is illegal for an unmarried person to have sexual intercourse.

These days, it is legal between consenting adults, as marriage is no longer valued as an institution
by society.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Feel free to "attack me"..
Yes, I believe that the institution of marriage implies consent to the sexual act.
In such a society, it is illegal for an unmarried person to have sexual intercourse.

These days, it is legal between consenting adults, as marriage is no longer valued as an institution
by society.

I feel like sex has become a god. That because it's their body they can do whatever they want even though God has spoken of this at depth. This happens in the church and I myself have been guilty of this.

 

[wil]

So ironic you say this. We have a beautiful Texas storm rolling through. Thunder rattling the windows lightening flashing across the sky rain pouring down. Yes! tea sounds amazing right now.

Sometimes those storms wash away extraneous garbage so we can see what is underneath, expose new understanding

External challenges to long held notions and introspection ain't all that bad. If the foundation does not get blown away you end up rebuilt stronger, if a hostorical artifact is unearthed new exploration may be worthy.

 

[FrankSophia]

Sometimes those storms wash away extraneous garbage so we can see what is underneath, expose new understanding

External challenges to long held notions and introspection ain't all that bad. If the foundation does not get blown away you end up rebuilt stronger, if a hostorical artifact is unearthed new exploration may be worthy.

Every conflict presents an issue with our current understanding, at least to the extent that we're unable to express our view effectively or perhaps fully comprehend another persons perspective to better address them.

When there is clarity within ourselves interactions are less problematic, there is no threat to truth so our approach is less defensive.

I really like Ephesians 2:11-22 on this topic lately, it suggests that the Jewish people are dropping what is different as the Gentiles do the same thus uniting around one Spirit but today we are divided in a thousand ways all related to the flesh.

There are other similar statements like Galatians 3:28 that says all is made one in Christ.

Ephesians 4:1-6 speaks strongly against divisions between us as such.

This breaking down of separation is the path to God.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Feel free to "attack me"..
Yes, I believe that the institution of marriage implies consent to the sexual act.
In such a society, it is illegal for an unmarried person to have sexual intercourse.

These days, it is legal between consenting adults, as marriage is no longer valued as an institution
by society.

Yikes. Being married implies consent to the sexual act/
What does that mean in practical, day to day terms?
That is, what if in fact someone does not consent? What if the husband or the wife does not want to engage in the sexual act on any given occasion or many occasions?
The implication is morally repugnant to me. Unless I misunderstand.
When you said "In such a society" What society? I think I get what you're getting at but you're not spelling things out in a way that makes me feel confident that I really am getting what you are getting at.

But I think YOU may misunderstand something.
Sex being legal between consenting adults isn't about not valuing marriage.
What it is actually about, is valuing the privacy of individual adults, and the self-ownership and right to make private decisions of adult individuals.
To make sex illegal for any adult is a complete travesty of privacy and liberty. No matter how repulsed anyone is about a sex act, it is not the right of government or society to dare, to DARE, to arrest or punish anybody for what they do sexually if both are adults and consenting.
To punish anybody for their private acts, that they choose, (assuming neither is a minor child) to enforce some "law" by PUNISHING them is far, far more disgusting than any sexual act they could consent to and engage in.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Sometimes those storms wash away extraneous garbage so we can see what is underneath, expose new understanding

External challenges to long held notions and introspection ain't all that bad. If the foundation does not get blown away you end up rebuilt stronger, if a hostorical artifact is unearthed new exploration may be worthy.

These storms saturated the ground creating large areas of mud which my large German Shepherd tracked through my house without any consideration of the work that it would cause me. I forgive him though because I love him and I labor in love to correct the chaos he caused

 

[Faithfulservant]

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yikes. Being married implies consent to the sexual act/
What does that mean in practical, day to day terms?
That is, what if in fact someone does not consent? What if the husband or the wife does not want to engage in the sexual act on any given occasion or many occasions?
The implication is morally repugnant to me. Unless I misunderstand.

I doubt that you don't understand..
It's probably that you have different moral values, growing up in the West.
We are talking about the law, not about man and wife having no respect for each other.

To make sex illegal for any adult is a complete travesty of privacy and liberty. No matter how repulsed anyone is about a sex act, it is not the right of government or society to dare, to DARE, to arrest or punish anybody for what they do sexually if both are adults and consenting.

Well, that is your opinion.
In a traditional society, sex before marriage was frowned upon, and marriage was the norm.
..but now we see society being transformed, and the jury is still out..
..what next?

 

[TheLightWithin]

I doubt that you don't understand..
It's probably that you have different moral values, growing up in the West.
We are talking about the law, not about man and wife having no respect for each other.


Well, that is your opinion.
In a traditional society, sex before marriage was frowned upon, and marriage was the norm.
..but now we see society being transformed, and the jury is still out..
..what next?

Society will always evolve.

However, waiting until after marriage for sex is one thing
For marriage to imply consent is something I'm reading a bit different
It almost seems to imply that a married person cannot decline or refuse sex.
That would almost seem to imply to endorse or at least allow marital rape.