Your belief

juantoo3 said:
I've lost count of the times I've heard that "the Old Testament doesn't matter anymore." I've heard this so often from every corner of Christianity
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Is it a denominational thing?
Some denominations even follow Old Testament dietary laws
 
Thinking required said:
In listening to people talk about their religion, how well do you think people know what they believe to be factual and true? I find that most people who believe in a religion only believe in what they believe because that is what they have been told or either grew up in that religious household and that is what they were taught as kids. Any thoughts?
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I don't think there is any one answer for "people."

I've been interacting with religious people for many years, both online and IRL, and its a mix ranging from indoctrination to careful research, study, reasoning, and contemplation.

The answer depends entirely on one's individual nature.
 
Thinking required said:
I have read that as many as 80% of those kids raised in Christian homes walk away from what their parents believe. Catholic and Muslim homes are different, they just about will always believe they are a Catholic or a Muslim since their religions are based on works.
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I was raised Catholic, and while I was indoctrinated, I was able to, at a young age, know that this was not my path, as there were to many teachings that conflicted with my worldview.

Thinking required said:
I am so thankful that I was not raised in a "religious" home. I had nothing to get in the way.
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Yet here you are, on a religious forum, putting everyone in your way. ;)
 
TheLightWithin said:
I always wondered about that one. Was he saying "I am" referring to himself?? OR... referring to the way God referred to himself "I am that I am" also translated "I will be what I will be" Was he calling himself God, OR just referring to the existence of the Great "I Am" the God of Abraham.
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John 8
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” 59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

They were going to throw stones at Him because what He was saying was blasphemous to them. It was what He was declaring of Himself.

Exodus 3:14
14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ”
 
TheLightWithin said:
There is an Episcopal church near me (the American wing of the Anglican church) which states it is "Anglo Catholic" in practice. I haven't gone yet to see what it is like.
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Thanks, I was not aware of some of that, it's always good to learn. The Episcopal Church is what my sister in law was part of when she needed the annulment to be remarried. I have probably just lumped all the Catholic varieties together as many group all protestant churches together. Yes, they all have their varieties.
 
TheLightWithin said:
I always wondered about that one. Was he saying "I am" referring to himself?? OR... referring to the way God referred to himself "I am that I am" also translated "I will be what I will be" Was he calling himself God, OR just referring to the existence of the Great "I Am" the God of Abraham.
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The content of the story should provide more to the answer.

John 8:51 “Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
52 The Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets also; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word, he will never taste of death.’
53 “Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’;
55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I will be a liar like you, but I do know Him and keep His word.
56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus bhid Himself and went out of the temple.
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Jn 8:51–59.

First Jesus calls it "My" word. Shouldn't it be God's word.
And then we have the Jews asking; "whom do you make yourself out to be?"
Then Jesus says: "it is My father who glorifies Me" calling Himself the Son of God
And then we have the tag line: "before Abraham was born, I am" Same as saying I existed. John says:
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Then the Jews wanted to stone Him for this kind of language. We can take that a couple of different ways.
John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”
Yes, I know the next verse, but what is shown here is that the Jews believed that Jesus was calling Himself God.

New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995),
 
TheLightWithin said:
Did they think he WAS God, or they interpreted him to be claiming he was God? I
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I am a simple man, I just read the text and the text says: "You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God" Seems very clear by the language. From the previous verses in this text, I have expounded on this, Jesus does connect Himself with God. "keeps my word he will never taste death" (verse 51)
 
TheLightWithin said:
As to whether he WAS God... boy do I wish his words were unambiguous straightforward and direct.
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If you tie all the pieces together, the picture becomes clear. There are just so many verses that make this story, including the OT. When Jesus asks Peter who he believed He was, peter exclaimed: "your are the Christ" Everyone knew that the Christ would be "God with us" as stated in Isaiah. I find the Bible like a puzzle. When I build a puzzle, I try very hard not to look at the picture on the box. I don't want to know what the picture of the puzzle is. As I start putting the puzzle together, the picture starts coming alive. May a dog in one place, kids in another place, birds in a tree, cars on a road and so on. the more I keep reading the Bible, the clearer the picture becomes, all the pieces start making the picture.
The other this is, I have no problem with Jesus being God, because I realize that I can not limit God to anything. God is God and if I believe that He can reveal Himself in whatever manner that He likes, He does so to Adam in the Garden when He "walks with Adam in the cool of the day". too many people just will not let God be God. If Jesus has abilities that are only attributed to God, healing, forgiving sin, making a blind person see and such, these are only attributed to God. John lays it out very clearly in John 1 and 1 John 1. Jesus is God.
 
Thinking required said:
..too many people just will not let God be God. If Jesus has abilities that are only attributed to God, healing, forgiving sin, making a blind person see and such, these are only attributed to God. John lays it out very clearly in John 1 and 1 John 1. Jesus is God.
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..and why does it matter so much to you, whether Jesus is God or not?
 
juantoo3 said:
Most Christians dismiss the Old Testament as unimportant and irrelevant, since they are no longer under the Law and don't have to worry about their behavior...I mean, works.
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I don't know whether this falls under 'hasty generalisation' or 'argumentum ad populum' ...

Catholics, Orthodox (all Patriarchates), Anglicans, Lutherans, the Reform denominations, all hold the Old Testament as important and relevant.

It's there in Catholic and Orthodox Liturgies – readings from the Hebrew Scriptures at every Mass – and I reckon in other denominational liturgical praxis too.

I suppose it depends on how many self-identify as Christian in a general sense, but don't actually pay any attention to the doctrines as such.

We are not under the Law – we are not Jews – Paul makes that clear, so you'd have to take that up with him, as it were.

And as for not worrying about behaviour ... this is the kind of ill-informed stuff that just besmirches the picture.
 
Thomas said:
I don't know whether this falls under 'hasty generalisation' or 'argumentum ad populum' ...
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Point taken
Thomas said:
I suppose it depends on how many self-identify as Christian in a general sense, but don't actually pay any attention to the doctrines as such.
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That is about it as I see the matter
Thomas said:
We are not under the Law – we are not Jews – Paul makes that clear, so you'd have to take that up with him, as it were.

And as for not worrying about behaviour ... this is the kind of ill-informed stuff that just besmirches the picture.
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Seriously? After all of the discussion over the past week, you are throwing this at me?

C'mon....
 
Thinking required said:
t’s much like the Catholic religion, all Catholic get to heaven because they belong to the church and a Priest will forgive them at their last rites.
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Flat wrong.

I think this is your prejudice talking. It might be what you believe, but it's not true. You are wrong.
 
muhammad_isa said:
..and why does it matter so much to you, whether Jesus is God or not?
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It really does not matter to me. I don't go around with a "Jesus is God" mentality. The point is, do I believe God, do I believe that His Word can be trusted, I do believe the promises. Jesus says that He is the way to God, the way to eternal life, the way to heaven. John states that Jesus is the Word of God which existed with God in the beginning, John says that all things were made by the Word, John says that the Word becomes flesh and lives with us. Unlike your belief, Jesus died on a cross for my sins and rose from the dead and is in Heaven with the Father. Nutshell version, if I don't believe that Jesus is God, then I can't believe the Scriptures are trustworthy.
 
Thomas said:
I think this is your prejudice talking. It might be what you believe, but it's not true. You are wrong.
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Well, what I believe is from many different sources. I read and read and try to dig into truth verse lies. I believe that there are saved people in the Catholic church just like there are saved people in the protestant churches. Do I have to confess to a Priest? Do I have to take sacraments to be saved, what are the "last rites" for, why should I call someone father who is not father. Why do I have to pray to Mary. If you go to a Catholic web site they will say that we are saved by Faith, they don't tell all the attachments that go along with that. Besides, the Vatican is not the Church and Popes are not in charge of the Church, God is. Why do all these people flock to a Pope and want to kiss the hand of a Pope like he is God. Baby baptism does not exist in Scripture, the later Catholic church developed this to attach people to their organization. There are so many issues with the Catholic church and as they have lost their hold on it's people, they are in a panic mode. Even relaxing on their doctrine.
 
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