Your religious/spiritual journey

Hi TLW,

It sounds like you may be open to ideas like karma and reincarnation. What do you think of the idea of karma?
Karma is very interesting. I did grow up with the idea of reincarnation and karma being sort-of believed in by my mom though not exactly instructed to me. To me, karma as I understand it seems plausible and reasonable. If I understand correctly, both one's actions and one's intentions play some role in garnering some kind of energy around you that can be positive or negative and that has effects in both this life and in the next.

Do I have that right?

Is it possible to assess what your karma is? That is, whether you have good or bad karma, how much, what you can do to change it, whether things that have happened in your life are about past karma, (this or previous life) etc? 🤔
Does the idea of karma correspond in any way with Western religious doctrinal ideas around obedience, grace, forgiveness of sin etc or is it so different from those ideas that is doesn't align at all?🤔
 
TLW, you said,

both one's actions and one's intentions play some role in garnering some kind of energy around you that can be positive or negative and that has effects in both this life and in the next.

Exactly. You are also correct in saying this effects both this life and the next. Our actions and intentions certainly can be positive or negative. Simply said, when we do something to someone (good or bad), somewhere down the line (in this lifetime or a future lifetime) the same type of thing will happen to us — this is the basis of how karma works.

If we do something good, somewhere down the line something good will happen to us, most likely in some type of ‘unexpected good luck’ and if we did something bad, we will get a piece of ‘unexpected bad luck’ in the future. What is important to note is, this future piece of ‘bad luck’ is something bad that will happen to us, and we won’t be able to do anything about it.

Is it possible to assess what your karma is?

The only way I know is to consult a good psychic.


That is, whether you have good or bad karma,

I think all of us have both good and bad karma.

how much,

I think that most of us have more bad karma stored up than good karma.

what you can do to change it, whether things that have happened in your life are about past karma, (this or previous life) etc?

Bad karma can only be worked off. It is only through doing good deeds and not doing bad deeds that we will finally bring our karma into balance.

Does the idea of karma correspond in any way with Western religious doctrinal ideas around obedience, grace, forgiveness of sin etc or is it so different from those ideas that is doesn't align at all?

There is no connection between the ideas of karma and the forgiveness of sin — these ideas are completely opposite. In my opinion, a person cannot believe in karma and the forgiveness of sin at the same time. (The forgiveness of sin removes a person from being held responsible for what they have done, whereas karma guarantees the person will be held responsible for what they have done.)

I think posting a couple of edited images from the Theosophical book First Principles of Theosophy by C. Jinarajadasa will help to explain things.

In the image below, we see the total of good and bad karma accumulated by one particular person over a number of lifetimes. The empty space inside the circle represents the person’s accumulated good karma, and the hatched area inside the circle represents the person’s accumulated bad karma. We can see that the person has accumulated more bad karma than good karma. (This is true of almost everyone.)

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If we were to try to work off all of our bad karma in one lifetime, we would be crushed by the weight of it, so we select only a small portion to be worked off in our upcoming reincarnation (the portion in the image below defined as the slice-of-pie g, h, k).

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In the image below, we see the total amount of good and bad karma the person has accumulated at the end of the next reincarnation. Fortunately, the total percentage of good karma is now slightly larger, and the total percentage of bad karma is now slightly smaller. (But not by a whole lot. It will take this person many reincarnations to eventually work off all of their bad karma.)

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It is in this way we eventually work off all of our bad karma, which then allows us to move onto enlightenment and then onto nirvana. (I do not think we can move onto enlightenment and then nirvana until we have burned off all of our bad karma, but a lot of people disagree with me on this.)

How does all of this sound so far?
 
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I hope this won't be long, or boring. I was born in London in the early 1950s, and adopted shortly after by a religious family. When I came across the teaching that we choose our parents, that amused me. I had an on and off relationship with religion until I was around 15, when I followed Woody Allen's dictum about not wanting to join any club that would have me as a member. Wars, suffering etc turned me completely off God - for a while I prayed that no God existed, because if I'd met God I'd have kicked him in the privates, for sure. And that wouldn't have ended well for anyone, right?

So I made up my mind that life was basically about luck, sex and competition, and I decided that I would be personally happier living a life of doing the "right thing." That sounds awfully enlightened, but I can reassure you that in practice that didn't always happen by any means.

Fast forward to when I was 30, and my (adoptive) father died. After the funeral, as I was walking away, he came and shook my hand. Just like that, my world view changed, although I sat on that for several years until even I realised I had at some point crossed the invisible line that marks the boundary between one who lives a spiritual life, and one who doesn't.

It was impossible to get useful help or guidance. In the library, books on what I was looking for seemed to be either crazy, or written in a sort of semi - Sanscrit. Eventually I came across the notebooks of Paul Brunton. Haleluyah. Written in English, and written very well. I imported 27 of his books from the USA at great expense (his notebooks are now available free online, and well worth a look) and devoured them. Soon after I discovered Douglas Baker. During this time, in my 40s, I met my wonderful wife, packed in my life as a successful businessman, and trained as a therapist - a natural development of the charity work I had been doing for some years. Now in my 70s, I continue working with people, and feel so blessed to have the help and guidance myself to do all the heavy lifting in my work with others.

Death doesn't bother me, although my body hopes it will be easy. What bothers me is having another primary school experience. Perhaps things will have moved on by then.
 
I was born to a cafeteria Catholic household and spent Saturdays in CCD and Sundays at Mass. The first point of questioning my indoctrination was when I was told by a nun during CCD that only humans, not other animals, were worthy of going to Heaven. This resulted in a debate between me and the nun, which left a bad flavor in my mouth. This marked the beginning of the end of my identification as a Catholic.

I explored a few other Christian denominations throughout my teens, going to services with friends, before eventually falling into agnosticism for many years of my life.

A few years after the turn of the century, I found Wicca, and spent a few years learning about the religion as well as other forms of Neo-Paganism. I joined a message board (which is now defunct) where I met a Theosophist who, after many interactions on the forum, told me that my beliefs aligned with those of Hinduism. I didn't think much of it at the time, and eventually fell away from Wicca and Neo-Paganism, again, because there were too many gaps between my own worldview and theirs. So for a while, I spent time simply identifying as a pantheist/panentheist, which was closer, but still not quite the right fit.

I eventually stumbled upon nondualism, and found there were many parallels between these views and my own. I dove deeper into the philosophy and came upon Advaita Vedanta. The more I learned about this Hindu school of philosophy and explored Hindu scripture, the more I found things that validated my views and experiences (particularly a spontaneous mystical experience I had in my teens), and came upon the realization that that Theosophist I interacted with years earlier was right.

57 years into this life, I can look back and say that my worldview have been fairly consistent over the course of this life, being altered marginally along the way only by my own experiences. I never adjusted my beliefs, views, or opinions to conform to any religion. I just happened to stumble into a religion and school of philosophy that aligned with the worldview that I already had.
 
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I'm curious to know how you would describe your religious journey, or how you came to believe the things you do now? What do you believe and why? Have your beliefs changed often, or stayed pretty stable?
M journey has been simple. From theism to strong atheism (science being a major factor). I abandoned all God/soul related beliefs like heaven, hell, rebirth (somewhere in my 40s and 50s, don't remember now, I am 81 now). I follow non-duality (Advaita Hinduism) which does not even recognize creation, birth and death, and considers these as illusions.
 
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Life starts at 80, at least that is what I hope for.
I will be surprised if I live to see it. The vast majority of us don't. Congrats to those that do...bonus if you do so healthy.

If anything I should hope one is comfortable in their belief or non belief by then. I wish that their understanding were like a comfortable blanket they can rest in as their body and mind slows.

In my young years (compared to you old geezers) I know that having that comforter to keep on warm as we revel in memories of younger years is a blessing. As is associating with old farts....my hole life I have been blessed with the opportunity to sit at the feet of (figuratively) and learn from elders...irl, as in places like this your years have benefited me greatly. Thanx.
 
If anything I should hope one is comfortable in their belief or non belief by then. I wish that their understanding were like a comfortable blanket they can rest in as their body and mind slows.
I am absolutely comfortable in my belief. But I am no prophet, I do not know how Aup's story is going to end. Most probably, angina, dropping dead. :D
Que Sera, Sera. Why bother?
 
How does all of this sound so far?

The terms "good" and "bad" reappear repeatedly in your post. Is it the conscious mind that decides what is good and bad from established social norms in your model of karma? Is it through our own lived experience that we realize whether or not our actions - from this life and previous ones - are good or bad?

To me, actions are deemed good or bad in relation to a fully realized human being. Without a signpost, we have no awareness of good and bad. Kind of similar to how an artist deems his work good or bad in relation to a master artist, the establisher of good art based on techniques that work together to make artwork that would be deemed beautiful. Without a signpost, we are like an astronaut with no sense of "up" or "down" in the empty vacuum of space.

I think that most of us have more bad karma stored up than good karma

"Stored up" where? In the house of consciousness? By consciousness I mean a lived feeling of awareness.

Why would there be more bad than good for "most of us" though? Seems to me any living being that learns from experience would make more wrong/bad choices before making more right/good ones.

To me, karma as I understand it seems plausible and reasonable. If I understand correctly, both one's actions and one's intentions play some role in garnering some kind of energy around you that can be positive or negative

Sounds like the strengthening of neural connections ("garnering some kind of energy around you"). I would really like to hear an explanation of karma from the perspective of neuroscience.

Personally the concept of karma plays no role in my spiritual journey. Too much time spent determining and tallying up good and bad instead of observing from experience and simply trying to make each day just a little bit better with wiser decisions. No need to worry about the bad karma from my past lives, but I do see the value into looking through the lived experience of our grandparents, great grandparents, and ancestors. Previous trauma or negative dispositions we mirror in early childhood from the past need to be carefully transformed into positive actions that increase our own well-being and the well-being of others.
 
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I will be surprised if I live to see it. The vast majority of us don't. Congrats to those that do...bonus if you do so healthy.

If anything I should hope one is comfortable in their belief or non belief by then. I wish that their understanding were like a comfortable blanket they can rest in as their body and mind slows.

In my young years (compared to you old geezers) I know that having that comforter to keep on warm as we revel in memories of younger years is a blessing. As is associating with old farts....my hole life I have been blessed with the opportunity to sit at the feet of (figuratively) and learn from elders...irl, as in places like this your years have benefited me greatly. Thanx.
Only too happy to help you youngsters 🤪😉
 
The first point of questioning my indoctrination was when I was told by a nun ...
Argh! Bloomin' nuns!

I once heard a theologian say something like: "I have no Scriptural nor philosophical reason to believe animals go to heaven, but I cannot conceive of being in heaven without a dog."
 
Eventually I came across the notebooks of Paul Brunton. Haleluyah. Written in English, and written very well. I imported 27 of his books from the USA at great expense (his notebooks are now available free online, and well worth a look) and devoured them...
Echoes my own story, in a way, when I discovered the writings of the Sophia Perennis in "The Sword of Gnosis" – I've recounted that moment here.

Within a week I was in Watkins Books, a treasure trove of esoterica, buying everything I could get by Frithjof Schuon.
I did some work for the publisher of SophiaPerennis books, and was rewarded with the complete works of René Guénon ...

So having wandered off from Catholicism, find myself now a Christian (Advaita) Platonist.
 
.. good and bad from established social norms in your model of karma?

"Stored up" where? In the house of consciousness? By consciousness I mean a lived feeling of awareness.

Seems to me any living being that learns from experience would make more wrong/bad choices before making more right/good ones.
Yeah, good and bad are dependent on the society and the person.
Being an atheist, I do not believe storage of 'karma' or on past and future lives. What we do affects us and others too even after our death. Karmas may not die, even if the doer dies.
We learn by many ways. Not only by our own experience, but by seeing the effect of actions of other people.
 
I once heard a theologian say something like: "I have no Scriptural nor philosophical reason to believe animals go to heaven, but I cannot conceive of being in heaven without a dog."
There are dogs in heaven - Kerberos, Cerberus, Sarama and her brood, two four-eyed dogs (Hinduism).
 
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