Count down to all out war in the Middle Eeast?

Dear Didymus

I agree with you on the UN and Europe backs the UN 100% too.

Five months prior to 9/11 it was reported in a UK national newspaper that Bush wanted to go into Iraq but could get no support from the world. Hence why the British people were very suspicious about 9/11 problem, reaction, solution ~ Iraq war.

There is certainly nothing like a war to take people's mind's off the state of the state and create fear to increase security measures.

Cause and effect - karmic retribution, reaping what we have sown also agree with that too! There was a US middle class ethic origin lady on British TV today and she stated that if she was ever tried in a court of law, she would prefer to be tried in the UK because she was certain that she would get a fairer hearing here. TV presenters were shocked at her revelations about the justice system but yet they all agreed there is no other way then jury. But research from psychologists proved that in many cases justice is a farce in the western world. Apologies Q I digress.

being love

Kim xx
 
Sacredstar said:
Thank you for the latest info on Hilton I will check this out, but there are another two court cases being brought by other lawyers too. (sounds like a few people have been bought off).
Unless, of course, some of the lawyers involved started out with "ambulance-chaser" mentality, and become resigned to see there is no easy money in persuing such cases. :)
 
well one of the cases is being funded by journalists, film stars, authors, and the pillars of US society I will see if I can find the link.

But here is another one for those who might be interested in the lastest news as it develops.

http://www.911truth.org/
 
Respected Leaders and Families Demand Deeper Investigation into the Events of 9/11

NEW YORK CITY, NY (Oct. 26, 2004) -- An alliance of 100 prominent Americans and 40 family members of those killed on 9/11 today announced the release of the 911 Truth Statement, a call for immediate inquiry into evidence that suggests high-level government officials may have deliberately allowed the September 11 attacks to occur.  The Statement supports an August 31 Zogby poll that found nearly 50% of New Yorkers believe the government had foreknowledge and "consciously failed to act," with 66% wanting a new 9/11 investigation.

Focusing on twelve questions, the Statement highlights areas of incriminating evidence that were either inadequately explored or ignored by the Kean Commission, ranging from insider trading and hijacker funding to foreign government forewarnings and inactive defenses around the Pentagon.  The Statement asks for four actions:  an immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, Congressional hearings, media analysis, and the formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry.

The Statement's list of signatories includes notables spanning the political spectrum, from Presidential candidates Ralph Nader, Michael Badnarik, and David Cobb to Catherine Austin Fitts, a member of the first Bush administration, as well as Washington veterans like Pentagon whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg and retired CIA analyst Ray McGovern. Other signers range from peace activists like Code Pink president Jodie Evans and Global Exchange's Kevin Danaher to former US Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq, Edward L. Peck; from environmentalists like Randy Hayes and John Robbins to business leaders such as Paul Hawken and Karl Schwartz, CEO of Patmos Nanotechnologies; from populist journalist Ronnie Dugger to renowned investigative reporter Kelly Patricia O'Meara.  

The Statement also includes 43 noted authors, including New York Times #1 bestseller John Gray, as well as 18 eminent professors, historians, and theologians.  Other notables include five-term Georgia Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, singers Michelle Shocked and Michael Franti, and actors Ed Asner and Mimi Kennedy.

The Statement was facilitated by 911truth.org, a leading coalition.  The organization has also announced a press conference outside of Eliot Spitzer's Manhattan office (corner of Cedar and Nassau) at 2:00PM on Thursday, Oct. 28th where 9/11 family members and victim group representatives will file a formal complaint demanding the first criminal investigation of 9/11 events by the New York Attorney General.

For a complete statement and list of signatories, see http://tinyurl.com/5o832 or http://www.911truth.org.
 
War on terror is a war to control the Middle East.
The War-on-terror is a war for oil, in other words a war for the control of the Middle East.

The USA has always depicted its war on terror as conflict between democracy and Islamic fanaticism. However the real motive for this war has its roots in history.

The true center of the conflict is Saudi Arabia itself. America doesn’t want a new government in Saudi Arabia to gain power. A new government might strip America off the vast oil deposits, which represent 1/6th of world reserves.

To fully understand the current wars, one should travel back in time, to WWII. Oil was an essential factor in the Allied victory over the Axis powers, although the nuclear strikes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki ended the war. Oil powered the vast numbers of ships; tanks and aircraft. It was widely assumed, therefore, that access to large supplies of oil would be critical to US success in any future conflicts.

During World Wars II, the United States was able to obtain sufficient oil for its own and its allies' needs from deposits in the American Southwest and from Mexico and Venezuela. But these supplies would be insufficient to meet American requirements in the postwar era. As a result, the State Department initiated a study to identify other sources of petroleum. This study concluded that only one location could provide the needed petroleum: the Middle East.
President Roosevelt met with King Abd al-Aziz Ibn Saud, the founder of the modern Saudi regime, on a US warship in the Suez Canal following the February 1945 conference in Yalta. It is believed that Roosevelt gave the King a promise of US protection in return for privileged American access to Saudi oil--an arrangement that remains in full effect today.

This relationship has provided enormous benefits to both sides. The United States has enjoyed preferred access to Saudi petroleum reserves, obtaining about one-sixth of its crude-oil imports from the kingdom. Saudi Arabia also buys about $6-10 billion worth of goods per year from US companies. The Saudi royal family, for its part, has become immensely wealthy and, because of continued US protection, has remained safe from external and internal attack.

To protect the Saudi regime, the United States has steadily expanded its military presence in the region, eventually deploying thousands of troops in the kingdom.
US personnel have become deeply involved in the regime's internal security apparatus. At the same time, the vast accumulation of wealth by the royal family has alienated it from the larger Saudi population. The regime has outlawed all forms of political debate in the kingdom (there is no parliament, no free speech, no political party, no right of assembly) and used its US-trained security forces to quash all opposition. After the occupation of Afghanistan by the USSR, and the overthrow of the Iranian Shah, the United States assumed a more direct role, deploying military advisers in the kingdom and providing Saudi Arabia with a vast arsenal of US weapons.

Jimmy Carter declared at that time: “any move to control the Gulf, by any power, would be considered an assault on vital American interests.” = The Carter Doctrine. Carter established the Rapid Deployment Force in the Gulf, including warships and bases in Bahrain, Oman etc.

President Reagan also established a relationship with Bin Laden and gave him arms worth $3 Billion, for his fight in Afghanistan. Reagan also issued an important add-on to the Carter Doctrine: The United States would not allow the Saudi regime to be overthrown by internal dissidents, as occurred in Iran. "We will not permit [Saudi Arabia] to be an Iran," he told reporters in 1981.

Then came the Persian Gulf War. When Iraqi forces invaded Kuwait on August 2, 1990, President Bush the elder was principally concerned about the threat to Saudi Arabia, not Kuwait. At a meeting at Camp David on August 4, he determined that the United States must take immediate military action to defend the Saudi kingdom against possible Iraqi attack. To allow for a successful defense of the kingdom, Bush sent his Secretary of Defense, Dick Cheney, to Riyadh to persuade the royal family to allow the deployment of US ground forces on Saudi soil and the use of Saudi bases for air strikes against Iraq.

When the operation “Desert Storm” ended, the large US military presence in Saudi Arabia was never fully withdrawn (after the end of the fighting in Kuwait). American aircraft continue to fly from bases in Saudi Arabia as part of the enforcement mechanism of the "no-fly zone" over southern Iraq (intended to prevent the Iraqis from using this airspace to attack Shiite rebels in the Basra area or to support a new invasion of Kuwait). American aircraft also participate in the multinational effort to enforce the continuing economic sanctions on Iraq.

President Clinton further strengthened the US position in the gulf, expanding American basing facilities there and enhancing the ability to rapidly move US-based forces to the region. Clinton also sought to expand US influence in the Caspian Sea basin, an energy-rich area just to the north of the Persian Gulf.
Any consequences have flowed from all this? The sanctions on Iraq have caused immense suffering for the Iraqi population, while the regular bombing of military facilities produces a mounting toll of Iraqi civilian deaths. Meanwhile, the United States has failed to take any action to curb Israeli violence against the Palestinians. It is these concerns that have prompted many young Muslims to join bin Laden's forces.

In conclusion, the USA is fighting to prevent Muslim fundamentalists from getting power in Iraq and the other oil rich Gulf states, for an anti American government would sever all ties with the US oil companies.
 
Friend said:
Salaam
Osama bn Ladin..??..??:confused: ,He is a card in the hands of USA regime, they play with it when they need that, the last time we saw his game before nearly less than 48 hour of the American elections to influence it's result .....The American elector believed that ( Bush against The king of the terrorism Ibn Laden ).you will see that when they need him they will use him............
M'ah Sallam, Yes, the US government uses Ibn Ladin to their advantage, and the Ibn Ladin uses the US actions to his. No doubt friend. Also the US drops bombs and kills many, while Ibn Ladin influences many to kill self and others who are innocent. It isn't Americans blowing up Iraqi citizens on a day to day basis for the past two years...

Israel and Palestine: Israel wants to live, and Palistine wants Israel dead. Palestine claims that Israel took their homeland, but their homeland is in fact not taken. It is Jordan. Be that as it may, the people of Israel are wanted DEAD, the concept of Israel as a nation and a people, eliminated, erradicated, like vermin, by a majority of the people of the Middle East, what ever it takes. That is a fact based on historical events over the past 50 years.

Please consider: There are what? 15 million Israelies?, and over 300 million Arabs? Why focus on such a small number of people? What did they do to deserve the Arab world's wrath? Take the birth right from the first born of Abram (Abraham)? Life is a b*tch, I'm first born, and my brother curried favor from my father (at first). So What! Live like the first born is supposed to live...looking after the younger brother...not trying to kill him!

Why do you think America is not backing down to the Arab world? (or anyone else) Because we want oil? Please, if that is it Friend, we could have ignored everything and conducted business as usual with Sadaam Hussein. If we really didn't give a damn, we would have brokered a deal for the oil and ignored the people. We could have maintained a "laisez faire" attitude just like France and Germany wanted us to.

We would have gotten our "oil".

Oh, the United States of America is NOT a regime, Friend. If you think so, you know not about this country, government or people.

I do know about 19 Arab people however...they killed 3000 innocent lives without provocation (they thought they were going to kill over 80,000), and called it God's justice. They disrupted the world's financial conductions, and tried to break America's economic back (and military).

I'll stop here, since this is a thread that is supposed to be based on facts.

Take care Friend. Your posts are thought provoking, and I enjoy that.

v/r

Q
 
Salaam
Quahom1,Ok ....I appreciate and respect your opinion ...we as educated and comprehensive people must respect others opinion even if they different from our opinion.
Israel and Palestine: Israel wants to live, and Palistine wants Israel dead. Palestine claims that Israel took their homeland, but their homeland is in fact not taken. It is Jordan. Be that as it may, the people of Israel are wanted DEAD, the concept of Israel as a nation and a people, eliminated, erradicated, like vermin, by a majority of the people of the Middle East, what ever it takes. That is a fact based on historical events over the past 50 years.


did you read the past and near history well? if so ...what is your references ?...your Media " well guided propaganda" !!!

I do know about 19 Arab people however...they killed 3000 innocent lives without provocation (they thought they were going to kill over 80,000), and called it God's justice. They disrupted the world's financial conductions, and tried to break America's economic back (and military).


we should think well before accebted any information we hear or read :cool:
How is it possible that Arab students who had never flown an airplane could take a simulator course and then fly jumbo jets with the skill and precision of “top-gun” pilots? It is not possible and the fact is, the true identities of the 9-11 hijackers remains a mystery .

Actually Seven of the nineteen "hijackers" are alive and well. They were victims of identity theft, some of whom had had their passports stolen. They were interviewed by several news organizations including the Telegraph of England. Here’s an excerpt from David Harrison’s Telegraph story entitled: Revealed: The Men With Stolen Identities:

“Their names were flashed around the world as suicide hijackers who carried out the attacks on America. But four innocent men told how their identities had been stolen…

The men - all from Saudi Arabia spoke of their shock at being mistakenly named by the FBI as suicide terrorists. None of the four was in the United States on September 11 and all are alive in their home country.

All four said that they were "outraged" to be identified as terrorists. One has never been to America and another is a Saudi Airlines pilot who was on a training course in Tunisia at the time of the attacks. Saudi Airlines said it was considering legal action against the FBI for seriously damaging its reputation and that of its pilots.” (emphasis added)

The story of these identity thefts was also briefly reported by ABC and BBC (England). The FBI does not deny this. Nobody denies this fact because it is easily verifiable. Instead, the US media and government just ignore this inconvenient little fact and keep right on repeating the monstrous lie that the hijacker identities are known and that 15 of them were Saudis.

CNN revealed that FBI director Robert Mueller openly admitted that some of the identities of the 9-11 hijackers are in question due to identity theft. Here’s what CNN reported on September 21:

FBI Director Robert Mueller has acknowledged that some of those behind last week's terror attacks may have stolen the identification of other people, and, according to at least one security expert, it may have been "relatively easy" based on their level of sophistication.”



 

Comments About 11 September


1- The attacks of 9/11 COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED without the willful failure of the American defense system. In Washington, Air Force pilots demanded to fly but were ordered to stand down.

2- WHY then attack Iraq? especially since we now know the reasons were all bogus and now it seems USA is more keen to establish FREEDOM in Iraq than find those nasty Al Queda operatives.. it just doesn't add up..

3- - Much like the invasion of Iraq, the anthrax attacks were designed to deflect attention from unanswered 9/11 questions in the patriotic pandemonium that followed the tragedy.

4- Statements by Zbigniew Brzezinski and the Republican-written Project for a New American Century have stressed that America needed a formidable enemy to accomplish its aggressive geopolitical aims. The supposed enemy we attacked in Afghanistan was a diverse group of men from all over the world who were initially recruited, encouraged and supported by the American CIA.


5- The president has admitted that he continued to read a story to schoolchildren in a Florida school for 30 minutes after being informed that two planes had struck New York and that the nation was under attack. He has never explained this puzzling behavior, nor how he saw the first plane hit.


6- The invasion of Afghanistan was presented as an attempt to pursue the alleged perpetrators of 9/11, yet it had been discussed for years prior to the tragedy and actually planned in the months before the attacks on New York and Washington.


7- Planes that lose contact with control towers are usually intercepted by fighter jets inside of ten minutes, as the incident with the golfer's plane a few months earlier so clearly demonstrated.


8- Yet on 9/11, the jetliners that struck New York were allowed to proceed unmolested for more than a half-hour, and the plane that supposedly crashed in Washington was not intercepted for more than an hour and forty minutes after it was widely known that four planes had been hijacked.


9- The twin towers could not have collapsed as a result of burning jet fuel. Most of that fuel was consumed on impact. In the south tower, most of the fuel was spilled outside the building. Heat caused by burning jet fuel does not reach temperatures needed to melt steel.


10- What does stand out as particularly suspicious and still unexplained is that fires raged out of control beneath THREE of the collapsed towers for ONE HUNDRED DAYS, clearly indicating the presence of some kind of substance utilized in the demolition of the structures


11- The Twin Towers did not fall because of plane impacts or fires. Most likely explosives were placed on structural supports in the towers (as was done in Oklahoma City), and these controlled implosions snuffed out the lives of three thousand people.


12- Numerous previous attempts at using planes as weapons, intimate knowledge of terror plans called Project Bojinka, and knowledge of suspicious characters attending flight schools who were being monitored by the FBI make his utterance a clear lie on its face.


13- In the weeks before 9/11, the U.S. received warnings from all over the world that an event just like this was about to happen, but FBI investigations into suspected terrorists were suppressed and those warnings were deliberately disregarded.


14- - The names of the alleged hijackers, all ostensibly Muslims, were released to the public only hours after the attacks, despite Mueller saying we had no knowledge this would happen. This is an impossible twist of logic. If he didn't know of a plan to strike buildings with planes, how would he know the names of the hijackers?


15- Various artifacts were discovered in strategic places to try to confirm the government's story, but these have all been dismissed as suspicious planting of evidence. Since that time several names on that list have turned up alive and well, living in Arab countries. Yet no attempt has ever been made to update the list. And why were none of these names on the airlines' passenger lists?


16- Cellphone calls cannot be made from airliners in flight that are not close to the ground. As research by Professor A. K. Dewdney has shown, the emotional conversations between hijacked passengers and others would not have been possible under conditions that existed at that moment. These calls were cynical fabrications, exploiting the distraught emotions of those who lost loved ones.


17- Radio communications from firefighters on the upper floors of the Trade Center towers clearly indicate that fires were under control and the structure was in no danger of collapsing.


18- Bush's own brother was chief of security at World Trade Centre !!!!.



19- Anyone with any knowledge of the different types of FIRE knows that BLACK smoke indicates a fuel fire. You see WHITE smoke when something that will leave an ASH (such as paper or wood) burns. There was a lot of BLACK SMOKE coming off the towers before they collapsed.



20- In addition to making large amounts of money for the president's father and his friends from the hasty sale of inefficient drugs to a panicked populace, the investigation into these killings was abruptly halted when the trail of evidence led straight to the government's door, and has not been reopened.


21- The Patriot Act was presented in the days after the tragedy supposedly as a response to it, yet it was clear that this heinous act, drafted to nullify provisions for freedom in the U.S. Constitution, was put together long before 9/11. In addition, testimony by Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) revealed that most members of Congress were compelled to vote for the bill without even reading it.

22- Hundreds of pictures taken by many people show that a 757 could not have hit the Pentagon."

23- No airplane debris (except what was planted on the lawn) nor remains of passengers were ever found.


24- It was never televised, only recorded by a French crew filming firemen in New York. In that film, the plane in question does not appear to be a passenger airliner.


25- The hole in the Pentagon was not made by a jumbo jet. Damage to the building was simply not consistent with the size of the hole nor the absence of debris. At the supposed point of impact, a whole bank of windows remained unbroken and there were no marks on the lawn.

_______________________________________________________________

Questions still need answers


26- Who benefited from the suspiciously high numbers of put options purchased prior to September 11 for shares in companies whose stock prices subsequently plummeted, on the supposition that whoever was behind the hijacking was also behind most of the purchases of these put options?


27- Why was the debris from the collapsed Twin Towers removed from the site with no forensic examination? Why was almost all of it sold to scrap merchants and shipped abroad where it would not be available for scientific examination?


28- Why does the government refuse to release any transcripts of communications or any records at all relating to signals of any form transmitted by those jets?


29- Why did so many people, from San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown to many employees of companies in the World Trade Center who failed to come to work that day, know in advance that something bad was going to happen on Sept. 11, 2001?


30- Why do all the major U.S. media continue to act as if none of these questions is legitimate or relevant?




31- Hundreds of pictures taken by many people show that a 757 could not have hit the Pentagon."

32- No airplane debris (except what was planted on the lawn) nor remains of passengers were ever found.


33- It was never televised, only recorded by a French crew filming firemen in New York. In that film, the plane in question does not appear to be a passenger airliner.


34- The hole in the Pentagon was not made by a jumbo jet. Damage to the building was simply not consistent with the size of the hole nor the absence of debris. At the supposed point of impact, a whole bank of windows remained unbroken and there were no marks on the lawn.
___________________________________________________
If anyone are interested he can See this site :

http://www.total911.info/2005/02/video-cnn-reported-no-plane-hit.html

This site have very informative information and pictures
 
Hello Friend,

Again you make some very interesting points.

Friend said:
...we should think well before accebted any information we hear or read :cool:
How is it possible that Arab students who had never flown an airplane could take a simulator course and then fly jumbo jets with the skill and precision of “top-gun” pilots? It is not possible and the fact is, the true identities of the 9-11 hijackers remains a mystery...


1. With onboard GPS, the coordinates for a specific location and altitude plugged into the auto pilot of a passenger airliner (or any plane that has such equipment built in as a safety measure as FAA rules determine), a plane can be programmed to fly itself. GPS is so accurate today that the "destination" can be achieved with a few meters of intended point. The "precision flying" could have been due to the flight computer (VOC).

2. Simulators are so realistic today, that one can actually feel like they are flying, and can learn to fly without ever leaving the ground. For example, That is how I learned the basics of flying a helicopter (which is not the easiest air frame to keep aloft).

3. Whether the identities of the hijackers remains a mystery or not, al-Qaeda claimed responsiblity for the attacks, which doesn't seem prudent if one does not wish to be chased after and hounded all over the world.

Friend said:
Actually Seven of the nineteen "hijackers" are alive and well. They were victims of identity theft, some of whom had had their passports stolen. They were interviewed by several news organizations including the Telegraph of England. Here’s an excerpt from David Harrison’s Telegraph story entitled: Revealed: The Men With Stolen Identities:
Friend said:
“Their names were flashed around the world as suicide hijackers who carried out the attacks on America. But four innocent men told how their identities had been stolen…

The men - all from Saudi Arabia spoke of their shock at being mistakenly named by the FBI as suicide terrorists. None of the four was in the United States on September 11 and all are alive in their home country.

All four said that they were "outraged" to be identified as terrorists. One has never been to America and another is a Saudi Airlines pilot who was on a training course in Tunisia at the time of the attacks. Saudi Airlines said it was considering legal action against the FBI for seriously damaging its reputation and that of its pilots.” (emphasis added)

The story of these identity thefts was also briefly reported by ABC and BBC (England). The FBI does not deny this. Nobody denies this fact because it is easily verifiable. Instead, the US media and government just ignore this inconvenient little fact and keep right on repeating the monstrous lie that the hijacker identities are known and that 15 of them were Saudis.

CNN revealed that FBI director Robert Mueller openly admitted that some of the identities of the 9-11 hijackers are in question due to identity theft. Here’s what CNN reported on September 21:

FBI Director Robert Mueller has acknowledged that some of those behind last week's terror attacks may have stolen the identification of other people, and, according to at least one security expert, it may have been "relatively easy" based on their level of sophistication.”
That very well may be. But that does not account for the remainder that were identified and verified, or where they originated from.

I do not get my historical data from the US media. I read books, and research. I ask questions, and talk with Arab-Americans from my hometown of Dearborn and Detroit, Michigan (mostly I listen). I even went to the Middle East and Israel as well as places like Georgia and Turkey, and I listened.

One point I'd like to make that is beyond dispute. I watched the plane fly into the Pentagon. I was on the 395 crossing the bridge into DC (where I worked). First the sound of jet engines caught my attention, because Reagon National was behind me (farther south), and airlines that use the Potomac river as an approach must remain at a certain altitude and position. After hearing that repetitive rumble day after day for years, one will pick up very quickly when the sound changes, and that draws one's attention. The lack of debris as you point out can be attributed to the fact that aluminum melts at 1200*F and vaporizes at 2800*F. The temperature of the fireball exceeded 10,000*F. Also, the side of the Pentagon that was struck had just finished being "hardened", and the plane hit the parking lot first before slamming into the side of the building. At over 240 mph, not much remains when it comes to a sudden stop against hardened concrete and re-inforced steel.

When a bullet enters a body, it makes a small hole going in, but tears everything up inside. All five levels inside the Pentagon on that side were destroyed, and 119 people (I think), are dead, not counting the passengers on the plane.

The shock wave from the explosion could be felt for several miles in radius.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
I watched the plane fly into the Pentagon.
Did you actually physically watch the plane strike, and if so, were there a number of people in the area who could see the same thing? Would witnesses have to be called in to give a police statement on the event?

Simply curious.
 
I said:
Did you actually physically watch the plane strike, and if so, were there a number of people in the area who could see the same thing? Would witnesses have to be called in to give a police statement on the event?

Simply curious.
Hello Brian,

Unfortunately yes, to all three parts of your question. Though many people were much closer than others. I was for example on an overpass about a mile away. And an interesting reflection on this is, because of the oddness of the whole situation, one's mind tries to refuse to accept what is being seen.

What was that? Was that a plane? No, it must have been a tanker explosion, or some other reasonable explanation. Or you think you're seeing things. People forget what they are doing and just stop, even those driving cars on the road. Everything is quiet for a moment. Then panick starts in.

v/r

Q
 
Friend... President Bush was not reading to the school children a half hour after the plane hit the WTC.. The teacher that was in the same room who might I add was a African American woman who DID NOT vote for him.. gave an interview about it which you can see if you watch FarenHYPE 9/11.. which also shows interviews of other ppl portrayed on Michael Moores farenheit 9/11 documentary showing how Michael Moore lied continuously throughout his propaganda film.

The President sat there for 5 mins to finish with the children and you can watch the tape yourself and see that he in fact was being READ to BY the children and you can see for yourself that he was indeed thinking VERY hard. Rather than jumping up and frightening those children and rushing to deal with this situation he did a most wonderful and admirable thing and processed the information in his mind before giving a presidential speach immediately afterwards.

People are so quick to find the bad guy in situations like this.. and wow everything is such a conspiracy... WHY cant people blame the REAL bad guys!

I have the utmost admiration for my President and if it wasnt for the terms being limited afterPresident Roosevelt held the office 4 terms in a row. I would vote for him for a 3rd term. You know an even greater thing?? There are already two more Bush family members potentially running for office and guess what??? They have MY vote. Guts must run in the family...

Flame on, my friends :)
 
Quahom1 said:
Hello Brian,

Unfortunately yes, to all three parts of your question. Though many people were much closer than others. I was for example on an overpass about a mile away. And an interesting reflection on this is, because of the oddness of the whole situation, one's mind tries to refuse to accept what is being seen.

What was that? Was that a plane? No, it must have been a tanker explosion, or some other reasonable explanation. Or you think you're seeing things. People forget what they are doing and just stop, even those driving cars on the road. Everything is quiet for a moment. Then panick starts in.

v/r

Q
Thanks for that - I've seen claims that there were no witnesses to the actual event, which always seemed strange considering the high population of the area. Thanks for correcting that. :)
 
Dear Q

What is your reponse to this article?

Published on Friday, March 4, 2005 by Focus on the Global South
Desperate Martians Now Wooing Venusians
by Walden Bello
 
Adapted from the author's speeches during an anti-war tour of Italy, Feb. 22-27, 2005

EUROPE and the world have witnessed over the last few days the unfolding of a diplomatic offensive that is designed to convince Europeans, "to put Iraq behind them." The effort is, in fact, geared to persuade not only Europeans but also the world that with the recent elections in Iraq, there is a new game that must be played, and the name of that game is democracy.

The reality is that the old game of domination and occupation continues, and the US is not winning. The triumphalism that accompanied George W. Bush’s tour of "Old Europe," with his brand new Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, at his side, was a public relations effort to counter the reality of the spread of a wide and deep resistance in Iraq. There is not only the military resistance that we witness day-to-day on television. There is also a political resistance that is broader than the military resistance. There is, as well, massive civil resistance, which encompasses not only trade union opposition but all those acts ordinary citizens engage in day-to-day to deny legitimacy to the occupation that James C. Scott calls the "weapons of the weak."

The US: Losing in Iraq


Walden Bello | Desperate Martians Now Wooing Venusians
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0304-38.htm

being love

kim xx
 
Hello Sacred,

I think I will follow Teddy Roosevelt's advice and "walk softly" over this issue.

Sacredstar said:
Dear Q

What is your reponse to this article?

Published on Friday, March 4, 2005 by Focus on the Global South
Desperate Martians Now Wooing Venusians
by Walden Bello

Adapted from the author's speeches during an anti-war tour of Italy, Feb. 22-27, 2005
The actual author of this article is not Dr. Bello, and has not identified him/herself. To "adapt" something is to make suitable to or fit for a specific use or situation. I did not have the honor of listening to the good Dr.'s speeches and the author of this article has not indicated quoting the man.

Sacredstar said:
EUROPE and the world have witnessed over the last few days the unfolding of a diplomatic offensive that is designed to convince Europeans, "to put Iraq behind them." The effort is, in fact, geared to persuade not only Europeans but also the world that with the recent elections in Iraq, there is a new game that must be played, and the name of that game is democracy.
Not being privy to the President's internal thoughts, but based on what I've seen and heard, this sounds pretty accurate.

Sacredstar said:
The reality is that the old game of domination and occupation continues, and the US is not winning. The triumphalism that accompanied George W. Bush’s tour of "Old Europe," with his brand new Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, at his side, was a public relations effort to counter the reality of the spread of a wide and deep resistance in Iraq.
This is an opinion. The author implies that this is fact, as if the author has polled the entire Iraqi population to come to this conclusion. The author also uses veiled sarcasm to attempt to garner contempt by the reader towards President Bush and Ms. Rice, before getting into the body of the article.

Sacredstar said:
There is not only the military resistance that we witness day-to-day on television.
Here one must ask, is the author describing Iraq, or Europe? The author also is amiguous about the resistance. Is the military he/she describes, the Iraqi military forces, or insugents? If the author is describing Iraqi military forces, then this is false. If describing the insurgents actions, then the author has just given legitimacy to them as a military force under some nation's authority.

Sacredstar said:
There is also a political resistance that is broader than the military resistance. There is, as well, massive civil resistance, which encompasses not only trade union opposition but all those acts ordinary citizens engage in day-to-day to deny legitimacy to the occupation that James C. Scott calls the "weapons of the weak."
I don't ken who James C. Scott is, and the author alludes to the reader that they should know this person, and that this person is all knowing, without indroduction. Also the author just proved a point that President Bush's plan is working, concerning democracy for Iraq, if the will of the people is being expressed the way the author describes it. For that kind of behavior is in fact "democracy in action".

As for the rest of the article, the author uses bits and pieces of information and "adapts" that information to fit with his/her opinion in order to win the reader to his/her side. The author clearly does not concern him/herself with an American reader's opinion, by among other things, insulting the armed forces of the United states directly and indirectly (Marines are idiots, the Army is undiciplined, and demoralized, no mention of the Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard support, officers are considered incompetent, and enlisted personnel are vindictive).

The author opines that the American majority feel a specific way, but offers no evidence to back that claim.

So what is my response Sacred? I don't think the author likes us very much...:(

v/r

Q
 
I ah, don't think Friend is flaming. I base this on experience as a LE type. Take six people, give them witness to the same event. Present them with the same facts, then ask them to describe what they witnessed.

Invariably you will get six different stories, and each one of them is absolutely true.

Consider the 11 blind men describing the elephant...

...which reminds me. Gotta go find Kal.

v/r

Q
 
Dear Q

What do you say to the fact that 90% of all information distributed about the US comes from the US and american writers. That is certainly the % that arrives in my in box.

being love

kim xx
 
Sacredstar said:
Dear Q

What do you say to the fact that 90% of all information distributed about the US comes from the US and american writers. That is certainly the % that arrives in my in box.

being love

kim xx
Hmmm, you ought to consider Al-Jezeera?, and the BBC?, and the South African News? I did not set your e-mail to accept only American based news, Sacred Star. I would never suggest you do so. In fact I can give you a link to the Russian version of news, if that is your wish.

What I say to the "fact" that 90% of all information distributed about the US comes from the US and American writers...is irrelevlent.

You don't believe it anyway...

...don't attack me little by little...it isn't fair. I've never done that to you.;)

v/r

Q
 
Dear Q

Not at all

I really do value your views especially as you have had intimate knowledge from a military perspective. I know you are aware how important it is that the information that we distribute throughout the world is indeed as correct as it can be, and I am a lot more reticent about what I distribute these days so it is great to know people like yourself to obtain clarity so that one can make a discerned choice on what resonates with the heart.

People in the US have my greatest respect for the effort they put in to share information about their own countries activities with the rest of the world, and we would be very much in the dark without their effort, but yet I am sure you will agree that we must be discerning and not give GOD's powerful energy to conspiracy/inaccurate information if there is no real evidence for such.

But I do take a concerned interest and support my brothers and sisters in the US whenever possible.

Thank you for all of your considered responses above they were valued.

being love

Kim xx
 
Back
Top