Why don't Christians worship as Jews do?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by truthseeker, Mar 13, 2005.

  1. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Wouldn't that just be exchanging one form of slavery for another?
     
  2. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    Maybe. I wouldn't dare take it upon myself to reprogram humanity. On the other hand if we changed humanity's essence, we'd completely redefine the perception of slavery. The new humanity might think of mindless repetitive back breaking work as a vacation.
     
  3. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    Before thinking of changing a person's essence, you would first learn how to distinguish it from a person's personality. How would you do it?
     
  4. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Personality is the outward expression of one's essence...
     
  5. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    But it isn't and most people think it is. Socrates understood it as potential:



    The inner man contains our conscious evolutionary potential. The outer man or our personality is a conditioned animal that follows the cycles of dust to dust. As we are, we serve the animal rather than the animal serving us which is the ideal state when man is "one." Our essence through our collective ignorance doesn't develop and remains infantile while our personality adapts to our surroundings. It is an attribute of the fallen condition that collectively creates the "Great Beast."

    Love for example remains for us at the selective animal level because the development of the ability to love from a higher more universal perspective is a function of a developing essence our personality prevents us from acquiring. Our personality develops the ability to fake it for the sake of appearance and often expresses it as platitudes without the ability to do so.

    This is one reason so many people have a difficulty with forgiveness as it concerns Christianity. While it is true that attachments can kill or cripple the essence with conscious potential it is possible that a person can be living a conditioned life and all of a sudden awaken to the inner psychological vertical dimension and the sins which deny such awakening lose their power or as is said: forgiven. This change or metanoia brings a whole new meaning to human responsibility since what responsibility can a conditioned animal really have other than societal? But the awakening experience provides a choice that wasn't there before. Of course without having such an experience, this idea seems absurd since it is initially our personality that dictates our spiritual interests and remains in control until an essence experience of "awakening.".
     
  6. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    What is being described above is a dysfunctional human being. It is a disconnect between the Super Ego, the Ego and the Id.

    In a perfect world, the personality should mirror the essence, which should be a combination of the three levels of man's psychi, in balance.

    Socrates reminds me of Solomon's lament.
     
  7. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Neuroticism, to be more specific.
     
  8. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Exactly! Ecclesiastes... :eek:
     
  9. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    I should have left out the word 'essence', since it is extraneous to my statement. SG was saying that a biological change to humanity might just be exchanging one form of slavery for another, so I was responding to that. My statement (minus the word 'Essence') was "if we changed humanity, we'd completely redefine the perception of slavery."
     
  10. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    We are dysfunctional creatures. It is the fallen human condition. But since we are the same in this dysfunctional capacity, it appears normal.

    Freud's conception of the ego is the corrupt ego. The id is conditioned by it so cannot grow as it should and this superego whch contains partial truths becomes an influence leading only to the hypocrisy of external morality instead of access to inner morality.

    Some people can admit to being the wretched man which offers them the opportunity to outgrow this madness. Most continue to accept obvious absurdity as normal and continue to argue over facets of this absurdity.

    For the outer and inner man to be "one" requires a quality of ego our dysfunctional nature is incapable of so everything continues as it does.
     
  11. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Again, you throw "we"around, as if it is all encompassing (which it is not by any stretch of the matter). Freud is dead, and in a generation or so his thoughts will be gone as well.

    So, what is left? two thousand year old words from some carpenter, who's thoughts have shaken this world...to this day.

    And did he or did he not? well to me he does every day...
    .
     
  12. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    This is my situation as well. I am the wretched man. If you aren't, you're a better man then I am. I've been around human hypocrisy long enough to know that it is this way with the majority. Like it or not it is a dysfunctional condition I am willing to admit exists within me.
     
  13. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    And I have seen the desperation the clearest truth in those dying, it was there, in people's eyes...and I have seen God, in their eyes...and I wasn't going to lose that for them, or for God.

    Little ole me can make a difference? So can you...
     
  14. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe.
    ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe​
    Actually your description of "secular neurosis" more closely fits Jung's theories than Freud's: note the part highlighted in blue below:
    You might also want to compare the concept of individuation.
     
  15. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    I know what you mean. My path is real psychology or the study of "being" rather then modern psychology which is behaviorism. At one time philosophy and psychology were united but modern psychology has divided them. My path is all about creating individuals. Unfortunately, modern psychology defines the quality of an individual by behaviorism in relation to societal dictates yet the real individuals will always be strung up, nailed to crosses, and whatever other delights we can think of to support our imagination. It is necessary to preserve and justify our dysfunction.
     
  16. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    Yep. *nods*
    Christians were supposed to give up scapegoating. :(
     
  17. Nick_A

    Nick_A Interfaith Forums

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    This is one reason I have so much admiration for Simone Weil. In college, though one of its brightest students, they had difficulty with her search for individuality.

    Yet to those like Albert Camus who appreciated the search and what it can reveal both for the individual and for society, they have the highest regard for this courage to "annoy the great Beast."

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]How is it that one young woman is able to struggle to discover what most "normal" men are incapable of and frown upon? As a man I find it a disgrace but the bottom line is that we sorely need the influence of these individuals regardless of whether they are men or women and how they are scorned by "normal" people.[/FONT]
     
  18. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

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    As Christianity from the disciples fell on other cultures, jewish traditions are lost while others are picked up. Christians are not sanctified by laws, but are sanctified by our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  19. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    I've heard this before Blazn, I've even mindlessly said the words before...but what does this mean? What is the practical application? What are the implications where the rubber meets the road?

    Does it mean Christians can live life in defiance (carefully chosen word) of the Ten Commandments (the Law) and by holding on to Jesus' shirttail and by speaking his name they get a free pass into heaven?

    I'm not really trying to be argumentative here, I'm just asking of you some of the same questions that occurred to me over time as I read the Bible for myself. I always had a hard time reconciling how Jesus could say "I am not come to do away with the Law, but to fulfill it" when others were telling me that Christians are no longer under the Law. Seems to me if Jesus was not under the Law, there was nothing to fulfill, which would make him a bit less than fully truthful... Quite the quandary, that. ;)
     
  20. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

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    Jesus was under the law, yet unlike Him, we can attempt, but not completely follow the perfect laws of of a holy God which he fulfilled with his life and work on the cross. We cannot nor were we meant to, but to show us that we need salvation, a sacrifice that God is not tired of, but that which pleases Him for all time. It is thru Christ, the lamb of God, that we find this salvation and we understand God's love thru his grace by the sacrifice of His Son, because he loved us first even though were were sinners; yet, we choose to love him back, worshiping Him and asking the Spirit to dwell within us all of which causes His spiritual laws to be written in our hearts and that is what we follow--Loving God first and foremost from which all things spring as living water. Even though in our attempts we fail, God has already provided the lamb, and we are to sincerely ask for forgiveness in His Son's name. The sincerity and the love of God is between you and God, and the amount of forgiveness is not anyones to judge, but God's alone, as only He knows the heart of man and we through humbleness, seeking His word for understanding, and realizing that His ways are not our ways, one might come to the realization that we cannot come to God and say we stand before you holy on our own account, but we come to you sanctified by the blood of Christ because without you we can accomplish nothing. The Lord will exhalt those who humble themselves, and he will humble those that exhalt themselves.
     

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