Why don't Christians worship as Jews do?

That's all well and good, but it is evading my question.

Maybe if I ask more directly: Can a Christian be a murderer, with impugnity, simply by asking forgiveness and calling "on the name of" Jesus? Is a Christian above the Law as spelled out in the Ten Commandments?
 
juantoo3 said:
That's all well and good, but it is evading my question.

Maybe if I ask more directly: Can a Christian be a murderer, with impugnity, simply by asking forgiveness and calling "on the name of" Jesus? Is a Christian above the Law as spelled out in the Ten Commandments?
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We only have two laws to follow Juan:

Love God, with all our might, our strength, our heart

Love our neighbor as ourself

Keep these two laws, and we keep all ten commandments.

Forgiveness from God is one thing. Justice where justice is deserved is another.

Even Joshua forgave those he put to death...
 
Quahom1 said:
We only have two laws to follow Juan:

Love God, with all our might, our strength, our heart

Love our neighbor as ourself

Keep these two laws, and we keep all ten commandments.

Forgiveness from God is one thing. Justice where justice is deserved is another.

Even Joshua forgave those he put to death...
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I agree Q, but that is not the way I typically hear it. I have even heard one "professing" Christian as much as tell me to my face that Christians *could* get away with murder. So the teaching does get twisted quite grievously, especially if the words are not carefully (and prayerfully) considered as to what is really meant rather than what is mindlessly said.

That's all I was trying to get Blazn to do...really think about what the implications were for what he was advocating.

I see he bailed on me without responding, too. :(
 
juantoo3 said:
I agree Q, but that is not the way I typically hear it. I have even heard one "professing" Christian as much as tell me to my face that Christians *could* get away with murder. So the teaching does get twisted quite grievously, especially if the words are not carefully (and prayerfully) considered as to what is really meant rather than what is mindlessly said.

That's all I was trying to get Blazn to do...really think about what the implications were for what he was advocating.

I see he bailed on me without responding, too. :(
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Tell you what. You and I go back to school and get our law degrees. You pass the Florida Bar, and I'll pass the Maryland Bar for starters...then we create an interstate law firm (providing we pass every other state's Bar). Then we can kick some serious ass...lol

Hey, it could work!

Seriously, what part of "thou shall not commit murder", does your "Christian associate" NOT understand?
 
Quahom1 said:
We only have two laws to follow Juan:

Love God, with all our might, our strength, our heart

Love our neighbor as ourself

Keep these two laws, and we keep all ten commandments.

Forgiveness from God is one thing. Justice where justice is deserved is another.

Even Joshua forgave those he put to death...
Click to expand...

Simone expresses the same idea but reveals we are incapable of it as the wretched man so the ability to love is only a potential that the person interested in Christianity must be humble enough to admit and strive to actualize this potential that the heart is attracted to:

"The combination of these two facts – the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it – constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality. Whoever recognizes that reality recognizes that link. Because of it, he holds every human being without any exception as something sacred to which he is bound to show respect. This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings." Simone Weil​



“Draft for A Statement of Human Obligations” SIMONE WEIL, AN ANTHOLOGY ed. Sian Miles​

​
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​
Where the law is concerned with what we DO, Christianity is concerned with what we ARE. It is concerned with the psychological quality of the inner man. Murder in the heart does not always result in physical murder but as long as murder in the heart exists within us, we are simply attached to negative emotions and are more a thing than a Christian. It is the light of grace that helps to expose inner deception and cleanse the heart of the power of negative emotion.
​
The initial value of the law is that when practiced would lead to conscious verification of the "good." Many advocates of secular Judaism became too corrupt for it so Christianity introduced acquiring consciousness that would lead to the good. The good sense of the law would be understood in ones being through consciousness so suppression and hypocrisy normal for knowledge without understanding would be unnecessary.

Unfortunately Christendom forgets about the inner man and believes that somehow saying the name of Jesus forgives what we do forgetting that the purpose of Christianity is to cleanse the inner man.
 
Nick_A said:
Simone expresses the same idea but reveals we are incapable of it as the wretched man so the ability to love is only a potential that the person interested in Christianity must be humble enough to admit and strive to actualize this potential that the heart is attracted to:
Where the law is concerned with what we DO, Christianity is concerned with what we ARE. It is concerned with the psychological quality of the inner man. Murder in the heart does not always result in physical murder but as long as murder in the heart exists within us, we are simply attached to negative emotions and are more a thing than a Christian. It is the light of grace that helps to expose inner deception and cleanse the heart of the power of negative emotion.
​
The initial value of the law is that when practiced would lead to conscious verification of the "good." Many advocates of secular Judaism became too corrupt for it so Christianity introduced acquiring consciousness that would lead to the good. The good sense of the law would be understood in ones being through consciousness so suppression and hypocrisy normal for knowledge without understanding would be unnecessary.

Unfortunately Christendom forgets about the inner man and believes that somehow saying the name of Jesus forgives what we do forgetting that the purpose of Christianity is to cleanse the inner man.
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Have you never been in such dispare, or in such fear, frustration or desperation that you could only say "Oh God"? Then everything fell into place?
We are not wretched. We are just a little lower than the angels...that is in the first books of the Pentatuch. We have it in us to reach that condition that is in perfect balance with God, and nothing is impossible. The trouble is we can't hold that balance for very long...
 
Quahom1 said:
Have you never been in such dispare, or in such fear, frustration or desperation that you could only say "Oh God"? Then everything fell into place?
We are not wretched. We are just a little lower than the angels...that is in the first books of the Pentatuch. We have it in us to reach that condition that is in perfect balance with God, and nothing is impossible. The trouble is we can't hold that balance for very long...
Click to expand...

Usually our lives are lived by our personality. However, as in times of such disparse, our personalities are incapable of reacting to it. Then the "Oh God" appears from our young essence which is being starved of its potential to become what it can which is a little lower than the angels.

We simply are not what we think we are and this conceit adopted by our personality is a major reason why the young essence is starved of its necesary life experiences and never develops.
 
Nick_A said:
Usually our lives are lived by our personality. However, as in times of such disparse, our personalities are incapable of reacting to it. Then the "Oh God" appears from our young essence which is being starved of its potential to become what it can which is a little lower than the angels.

We simply are not what we think we are and this conceit adopted by our personality is a major reason why the young essence is starved of its necesary life experiences and never develops.
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Isn't that what I said? lol

We are not wretched underneath...
 
Quahom1 said:
Isn't that what I said? lol

We are not wretched underneath...
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But we have no underneath. The whole idea of Christianity is to establlsh with the help of the Spirit, an underneath that can grow rather then continue turning in circles.
 
Quahom1 said:
We are not wretched. We are just a little lower than the angels...that is in the first books of the Pentatuch. We have it in us to reach that condition that is in perfect balance with God, and nothing is impossible. The trouble is we can't hold that balance for very long...
Click to expand...

Quahom1 said:
LOL, that's why we are only a "little lower" than angles...we catch on fast...:D
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Seem to focus alot on hierarchy and balance.... I say screw it :D I am not as good as X but hey at least I am not as bad as C.. D seems to be doing quite well though... Not as great as K.

I am lower than none as I do not judge/scale myself agaisn't another... Just concentrate on what I am doing not others or some kind of balance, that isn't my scale to control, I am a weight not the scales, the balance is "anothers" responsability, not mine. And it'll balance....
 
Alex P said:
Seem to focus alot on hierarchy and balance.... I say screw it :D I am not as good as X but hey at least I am not as bad as C.. D seems to be doing quite well though... Not as great as K.

I am lower than none as I do not judge/scale myself agaisn't another... Just concentrate on what I am doing not others or some kind of balance, that isn't my scale to control, I am a weight not the scales, the balance is "anothers" responsability, not mine. And it'll balance....
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You of all people should have got this right off the bat...

We don't have the authority that the angels have...get it now? :eek:
 
Nick_A said:
But we have no underneath. The whole idea of Christianity is to establlsh with the help of the Spirit, an underneath that can grow rather then continue turning in circles.
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Indeed we do, and there are many layers in between...
 
Quahom1 said:
Indeed we do, and there are many layers in between...
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Paul wrote in Romans 7

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
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If he is right we are a slave to two opposing attractions. The attraction to God's law is deeper in our being than the atraction to sin but the bottom line is that they are a standoff. This is what I mean by us not having an underneath. Without the help of the Spirit we remain in inner opposition
 
juantoo3 said:
Maybe if I ask more directly: Can a Christian be a murderer, with impugnity, simply by asking forgiveness and calling "on the name of" Jesus? Is a Christian above the Law as spelled out in the Ten Commandments?
Click to expand...
We are all human, therefore we all sin. Jesus came to die for our sins, and paid the price for them all. If you have faith in God that he sent his Son to die for our sins because he loves you, then all your shortcomings, your sins, will be forgiven. If you with a troubled heart ask in sincerity and humililty before God in his Son's name, he will forgive you. There is no greater power than God's grace. And we cannot put limits on God's grace, or the person repenting. It is between them and their personal saviour. This however is not something to abuse, for we are not to grieve the Spirit. A christian puts God first, and in doing so, even though we sin, we constantly work on our shortcomings, and in following Christ and asking for help when we fall, we will one day be perfected through his sacrifice when we meet Him in heaven.
 
Christianity is NOT derived from Judaism. Christianity is the priesthood of Melchizedek, that is why they are different in practices.
 
Hi saddha,
saddha said:
Christianity is NOT derived from Judaism. Christianity is the priesthood of Melchizedek, that is why they are different in practices.
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Can you share more info on this Melchizedek. The Bible does not contain much background on who he was and why he is so important.
thanks,
Joe
 
saddha said:
Christianity is NOT derived from Judaism. Christianity is the priesthood of Melchizedek, that is why they are different in practices.
Click to expand...
The roots of the organized Christian faith began within the Jewish sect known as the Nazer or "Nazerines" who attended and worshipped with other Jews in the Synogogues and paid temple taxes, and kept Jewish laws and customs for at least seven to ten years after the death of Jesus. With the stoning death of Stephen (which was supervised by Saul of Tarsus), and the subsequent encounter Saul had with Jesus on the road to Damascus, the stage was set for the followers of Christ to step away away from the regidity of their Jewish roots and form their own faith.

It was not an issue of what the Jewish scriptures said, that divided the two camps of thought, but what they meant.

If Jesus was all he claimed to be, then the interpretation of the OT had to be revised.

This can be confirmed Not only in the Bible (throughout the NT), but also in "The Bible and History" by William Barclay, "New Testament History" by Frederick Bruce, The "Apostolic Age" by G. B. Caird, "The History of Primitive Christianity" by Hans Conzelmann, "Introducing the New Testament 2nd Ed" by Archibald Hunter, and "Church History in Plain Language" by Bruce Shelley.

v/r

Q
 
Joedjr said:
Hi saddha,

Can you share more info on this Melchizedek. The Bible does not contain much background on who he was and why he is so important.
thanks,
Joe
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Melchizedek, is said to have pre-dated Judeasm. From the time of Noah, Melchizedek is noted to have been a high priest, from the priesthood also came Jesus. This priesthood is argued to be superior to that of the Arionic priesthood (Levitical), and therefore superior to the Laws of Moses. (therefore the Temple in Salem "Jeruselem", is no longer needed).

Some view Melchizedek and Shem, son of Noah, to be one and the same. Interestingly, he was still alive at the time of Abraham (who paid tythings to Melchizedek). It is noted that Shem lived over 500 years, so that could be possible...

Some Gnostics consider Melchizedek to be Jesus himself.

One of the ironies is that Melchizedek was capable of making mistakes, particularly in the order of appropriate respect and honor. An example is when Melchezedek blessed Abraham before blessing God, which upset God quite a bit. This error tends to counter the claim that Jesus and Melchezedek were the same, since Jesus never displeased God.

The primary point of Melchezedek is that his order of priesthood is the same order of priesthood that Jesus is part of, and it pre-dates the Levitical priesthood, and is said by God that no other priesthood would be greater, therefore, it is superior to the Jewish priesthood at the time of Christ. It also implies that it is superior to any Judeao/Christian based priesthood that exists today...
 
saddha said:
Christianity is NOT derived from Judaism. Christianity is the priesthood of Melchizedek, that is why they are different in practices.
Click to expand...

I agree but as you know perhaps one out of a hundred is aware of the roots of Christianity. To make matters worse, a lot of the crticism of modern day Christianity or Christendom is associated with the results of secular Judaism. All the confusion resulting from all this has caused a lot of misfortune for all parties concerned.

Einstein remarked about the results of secular Judaism and the same can be said for much of Christendom. It just makes it hard for the good human beings and those searching for the inner experience of deeper meaning to continue being comfortable with their respective teachings.

Anyhow Einstein said in a letter sold recently at auction:

Einstein's letter on religion sells for £170,000 | Science | guardian.co.uk

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."
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It really is a shame because both Judaism and Christianity are very deep but they've become secularized to the point that people argue over the most superficial interpretations.
 
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