The Conquering Lion of Judah

Discussion in 'Rastafari' started by CanuckRasta, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Most likely due to the fact that He was without blemish on his face, and He did hide his hands and feet until the appropriate time...

    Also, he was the last person they expected to see alive. Our minds and eyes can play tricks on us.

    Revelations give a pretty descriptive picture (even if considered symbolic) of how Jesus looks upon His return, white hair, glowing in the face, armored up and not very happy at all.

    Oh and the thief in the night statement I think you posted earlier about His return...that is for the faithful. The above picture is for those who think they are bigger than their britches.

    v/r

    Q
     
  2. didymus

    didymus New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    is that how you perceive God? as one who will come back to punish those that are too big for their britches? what happened to proclaiming with your lips that Jesus is Lord? So can someone who has proclaimed Jesus as Lord still be too big for their britches or is that only for those that haven't made a verbal confession.
     
  3. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Did,

    In the battle of Armaggedon, there is not going to be a peace overture from Jesus to the combatants. According the Revelations, there isn't going to be enough meat on their bones for the animals to pick off, after all is said and done. Over 200,000,000 will be wiped out, because they were too big for their britches.

    And in the end, everyone will proclaim Jesus is Lord, including Lucifer. That too is in Revelations.

    I'd be happy to discuss this at length with you.;)

    v/r

    Q
     
  4. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Messages:
    9,906
    Likes Received:
    5
    Re: The Prince of Peace

    The parallelisms are very interesting Canuck. I'm going to research this Haile Selassie. He appears to have been a very influential man.

    v/r

    Q
     
  5. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,792
    Likes Received:
    0
    The word Ethiopia appears in the King James Bible version 45 times. When the word Ethiopia is used in the bible, it most of the time refers to all the land south of Egypt.

    All I can say is that I cant wait to get a front row seat to my saviors return..
     
  6. truthseeker

    truthseeker New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Re: The Prince of Peace

    Oh! You're on fire, aren't you, CanuckRasta!

    If Christians can believe Yeshua is the Mighty King - The Anointed One - then according to the scriptures you're throwing out there (on a substantial note I will add), then I don't see why RasTafarians should not believe that Sellasie I was indeed the Christ.

    So if Selassie I is the Christ, then what about Yeshua? Does everyone else have it wrong, or should the world just understand that the Christ can be manifest in kingship over and over again...
     
  7. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    2
    leaving apart the fairly significant fact that we don't consider jesus to have been the messiah, it is not possible in judaism for the king to be a priest as well. priests must be of the cohanim, direct male-line descendants of aaron (and therefore members of the tribe of levi) whereas the legitimate jewish kings are members of the tribe of judah in the direct male-line of david. to establish jesus as a bona fide candidate for messiahship (at least moshiach ben david as opposed to moshiach ben yosef, who'd have to be from the half-tribe of ephraim i think) he'd have to be a direct male-line descendant of david. hence the (from our point spurious) genealogy in the new testament.

    assuming that haile selassie was in fact in the direct male-line of descendancy from solomon, he would be a candidate for the kingship. of course a) this would be tough to prove and b) he wasn't jewish. both of these would be somewhat problematic from our PoV. it would be more likely that a member of the ethiopian jewish community would be eligible.

    the jewish take on this is that there are said to be three "crowns" - the crown of kingship, that of priesthood and that of Torah. kingship is reserved for one man, priesthood for a family, but the crown of Torah is available to anyone.

    b'shalom

    bananabrain
     
  8. truthseeker

    truthseeker New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    1
    As I understand it had to be proven that Selassie I was a descendent of Solomon before he took the throne and it was proven. Since it was proven, doesn't that make him Jewish by blood, though he didn't practice the religion?
     
  9. CanuckRasta

    CanuckRasta Rastaman

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Truthseeker, technically Selassie was not a Jew because as I understand it that is past down from the female side. His mother was Muslim.

    bananabrain, there are three articles written about Jews and Rastas at:
    http://debate.uvm.edu/dreadlibrary/ebardfield.html
    http://debate.uvm.edu/dreadlibrary/buchwald.html
    http://debate.uvm.edu/dreadlibrary/dvorin.html

    Please note in the last article, he mistook the origination of the term Babylon.

    Quahom, glad to hear you will be researching Haile Selassie. This paper may help:
    http://debate.uvm.edu/dreadlibrary/cardillo.html

    Truthseeker, while I am glad you are willing to see that Selassie might be Christ, we haven't talked about his "denial" of being to divine.

    One Love
    CanuckRasta
     
  10. truthseeker

    truthseeker New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    1
    Muslim is not bloodline. Jewish is. Not that I am trying to get into debate about his heritage or anything.

    The truth continues to unfold...
     
  11. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    2
    "bloodline" is a bit simplistic. tribal, cultural and family affiliations go through the paternal line, judaic status is conferred *only* by the mother or a conversion. if selassie's mum was muslim, he ain't jewish unless he converted, which he didn't. enough already!

    canuckrasta: thank you for posting those links, they were really interesting.

    i can see that rastafarianism is clearly a) monotheistic and non-idolatrous b) a religion that observes the noahide laws and c) a religion that draws heavily on jewish and christian sources - in fact, it appears more jewish than christian. my previous understanding of it (drawn from a three-hour conversation on a plane sitting next to a knowledgeable chap with massive dreads) was that it's actually a modern religion, created in the 20th century. where i kind of draw the line is in the almost divine status accorded to haile selassie, who was clearly a very real and influential person and worthy of respect, but it seems to me that much of the stuff is projected onto him. of course, in this, he's no different from other historically verifiable people. i just wonder what he himself thought of it - as i understood it, the downtrodden and marginalised black jamaicans saw this amazing, dignified, regal figure with a proud personal history - everything that had been stolen from them - and wished to identify themselves with all this. of course, this is all very well as long as there is some reason to be able to connect oneself ethnically with africa and/or ethiopia - it wouldn't make sense for a white person to convert to it if you see what i mean, because it's so specific to the *racial* experience of the dispossessed, alienated black man. it's a *black*-oriented religion, intentionally and specifically and it seems pretty well-thought-out to me, even if some of the theory and history is a bit questionable. but there's no reason it shouldn't survive and prosper as it evolves over time.

    from a jewish point of view, we would approve of people behaving ethically, being proud of their origins, defining group behaviours and ascribing this to jewish influence. actually, from my point of view i'd give much of the same credit to the seventh-day adventists, who seem like a fairly sensible bunch to me.

    the thing that does emerge from the essays linked to, however, is that the people who wrote the essays don't actually know that much about judaism. they actually read kind of like school projects. there are a number of inaccuracies and you could drive a cart through some of the assumptions and lacunae - there is not much evidence, for example, that "ras tafari" is etymologically connected to "rosh tiferet" - if i could see a few more examples, i might be a bit more convinced, especially given that the beta yisrael (the ethiopian jewish community) don't use hebrew but ge'ez - not that i am questioning their authenticity. there's one guy whose "jewish authority" is the owner of a judaica store in connecticut!

    i'll happily go further into some of the other connections if you want to address them individually.

    b'shalom

    bananabrain
     
  12. CanuckRasta

    CanuckRasta Rastaman

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    bananabrain,

    I'd have to agree with that it seems they didn't really know about Judaism, they really didn't know a whole lot about Rastafari either.

    Everyone, and I mean everyone who writes in academic paper on Rasta generalizes. All Rastas believe something different.

    Anyways, I would be interested to get your opinion on the scripture that pertains to the "blackness of Solomon, David, etc. They were outlined in the last article, I just want to know if he was correct??

    One Love
    CanuckRasta
     
  13. bananabrain

    bananabrain awkward squadnik

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2003
    Messages:
    2,749
    Likes Received:
    2
    you mean different from each other? there's no central authority, then. would someone from the ethiopian royal family have this authority - and are there any of them left or were they all murdered in the coup?

    umph. well, in the song of songs, the black person is definitely female. however, depending on how you interpret this, the person might be the queen of sheba but it is more reasonable to consider her either as the Shekhinah or Divine Presence, or the jewish people - the relationship between us and G!D is most accurately categorised as between bride and bridegroom, G!D Being the bridegroom, but both work equally well. now, the advantage of this is that the jewish people are then identified with the "black" woman - but then you end up with G!D being white, as the bridegroom, who is described later on as being "ruddy", with various body parts described as "alabaster" or "golden" i think. the main issue is this; "black" as described in the song of songs is not about ethnicity; the text says quite clearly that sunburn is responsible. now, in the context, sunburn is something that happens to people who are low-class, peasanty outdoors types. in other words, the "king" has a "desk job", whereas as the woman has spent time outside, she has been "burned by sin", as it were. in other words, she wasn't "black" to start with. lamentations 8:4 and the other quotes used are the same, blackness here is metaphorical, not ethnic - there's a clear suggestion of blame. nonetheless, there is no suggestion that i have so far seen in the text that black people are black *for this reason*, ie because of something they did wrong; even the punishment of noah's son ham, from whom the egyptians, cushites and other africans are descended, is not connected to anything to do with ethnicity.

    the other interesting episode that you might look at is the punishment of miriam for racism - she criticises moses for marrying a "cushite" (although zipporah was actually a midianite) - but, interestingly, the etymology of "QUShi" connects it to beauty. thus we can conclude that zipporah was dark, but that this was considered attractive! at any rate, she gets punished by tazria, which is usually mistranslated as "leprosy", but is considered to be a complete loss of pigmentation, or covering the skin with "pure, snowy whiteness" - poetic justice, one might suggest, showing her that too much "whiteness" was perhaps not as great as she seemed to think!

    obviously there's a lot of short-circuit thinking that goes along with the symbology of white-good, black=bad, but to be quite honest, "white" people aren't white - they're pink. and "black" people are pretty much brown as far as i can tell. personally, i'm browny-green (or olive, if you like) as you might expect and i think the whole thing is nonsense. likewise, the description of david does not suggest he was anything but "ruddy", whatever that means - possibly with sunburn - he was a shepherd after all!

    i personally think there's a lot more potential in the identification of rastafarians as akin the jewish people if you look at amos 9:7 - "'Are you not like the children of the Ethiopians to me, O children of Israel?' says HaSHEM." in fact, if you go and take a look at mentions of ethiopians in the bible, there's a lot more interesting stuff there than in mentions of "black" or "scorched" people.

    b'shalom

    bananabrain
     
  14. CanuckRasta

    CanuckRasta Rastaman

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    I give thanks for the info, bananabrain.

    The Ethiopian Imperial Family does maintain some symbolic control over the Rastafari faith. That said they do not dictate theology or doctrine, they assist with organizations such as the Ethiopian World Federation and other bodies that allow for repatriation. Haile Selassie's grandchildren are also regular speakers at Rastafari events.

    There is currently no central body within the movement. We have no Pope nor Patriarch. The closest figure to this was Prophet Gad (not to steal from the Pope but Gad recently died and no one cared :( ), leader of the Twelve Tribes of Israel order, which in my opinon is the section within Rastafari most similar to Christianity - with some Jewish influences as well.

    It would seem the movement as a whole is propelled by common goals and aims rather than a head figure or authority. I personally though would prefer to see a common spokesperson in the future.

    One Love
    CanuckRasta
     
  15. ilmawaqa

    ilmawaqa New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2011
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    African Civilization predate persian and Roman civilization.Egyptian kings called gods or sons of gods. In the same manner ,persians and Romans kings were called gods. Jewish (persian Cyrus ) and Christians Christ (Romans Julius Caesar ) were also king /gods. But the idea comes back to African , what is wrong with it ?
     
  16. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    9,437
    Likes Received:
    3
    My Lion of Judah ;)

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page