Revelation, are you ready?

Bandit said:
I am just kind of talking here. i do not have all the answers to these questions.:)
Who does? ;) No right or wrong answers here...nothing is set in stone in the future. God said so in this book. Only what could be if we continue in a certain direction...

But you are thinking about it, yes?

v/r

Q
 
hi there, i also like the book of revelation, i like to have an open mind to different thoughts on the interpretations of it .That is why i decided to read a book called REVELATION ITS GRAND CLIMAX AT HAND published by the watchtower bible and tract society of new york,i really enjoyed this book , the publishers said in their book.

Interpreting the Scriptures The mysteries locked up in the book of Revelation have for long baffled sincere students of the Bible. In God’s due time, those secrets had to be unlocked, but how, when, and to whom? Only God’s spirit could make known the meaning as the appointed time drew near. (Revelation 1:3) Those sacred secrets would be revealed to God’s zealous slaves on earth so that they would be strengthened to make known his judgments. (Compare Matthew 13:10, 11.) It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: "Do not interpretations belong to God?" (Genesis 40:8) At the same time, however, we firmly believe that the explanations set forth herein harmonize with the Bible in its entirety, showing how remarkably divine prophecy has been fulfilled in the world events of our catastrophic times.

 
Faithfulservant said:
The blessing is on those who read the words and wait for Christs coming.
Git Dor in here...I need someone to jump the gun on and then feel dumm after...:D
 
Is not Revelation also called Apocalypse? "revelation" being the English translation of a·po·ka´ly·psis in the Greek text.

But what really is an apocalypse? Though dictionaries define it by using terms such as "an imminent cosmic cataclysm," the Greek a·po·ka´ly·psis basically means "unveiling" or "uncovering." Thus, the last book of the Bible is properly entitled "A Revelation." Here we find, not a mere fatalistic message of world doom, but an uncovering of divine truths

 
I like that mee. I would be more inclined to interpret it that way. Not every body believes that the end days will be a desrtuction of the flesh and earth. Some believe that the end days will be the end of our current state of consciousness. The flames are symbollic perhaps for a burning away of the old nature.
 
in Revelation chapter 19, we find described in vivid symbolism a war—but not a war between hostile nations. On one side is "The Word of God." You likely recognize that as a title of Jesus Christ. He is in heaven, and this vision depicts him with his heavenly armies. Battling against whom? The chapter mentions "kings," "military commanders," and people of various ranks, both "small ones and great." This battle involves the coming day of Jehovah, the destruction of wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10) Moving on, Revelation chapter 20 opens by describing the removal of "the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan." This sets the stage for considering Revelation chapter 21.




The apostle John begins with the thrilling words: "I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. we can be sure that this does not mean replacing the literal heavens and our planet, with its watery deep. As the preceding chapters showed, wicked people and their rulerships, including the invisible ruler Satan, will be removed. Yes, the promise here is of a new system of things involving people on earth.​

as we move into this wonderful prophecy. The end of verse 3 speaks of the time when God will be with mankind, turning his attention toward people doing his will. John continues in verses 4, 5: "He [Jehovah] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: ‘Look! I am making all things new.’ Also, he says: ‘Write, because these words are faithful and true.’" What an uplifting prophecy!

 
mee said:
in Revelation chapter 19, we find described in vivid symbolism a war—but not a war between hostile nations. On one side is "The Word of God." You likely recognize that as a title of Jesus Christ. He is in heaven, and this vision depicts him with his heavenly armies. Battling against whom? The chapter mentions "kings," "military commanders," and people of various ranks, both "small ones and great." This battle involves the coming day of Jehovah, the destruction of wickedness. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-10) Moving on, Revelation chapter 20 opens by describing the removal of "the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan." This sets the stage for considering Revelation chapter 21.








The apostle John begins with the thrilling words: "I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. we can be sure that this does not mean replacing the literal heavens and our planet, with its watery deep. As the preceding chapters showed, wicked people and their rulerships, including the invisible ruler Satan, will be removed. Yes, the promise here is of a new system of things involving people on earth.​

as we move into this wonderful prophecy. The end of verse 3 speaks of the time when God will be with mankind, turning his attention toward people doing his will. John continues in verses 4, 5: "He [Jehovah] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: ‘Look! I am making all things new.’ Also, he says: ‘Write, because these words are faithful and true.’" What an uplifting prophecy!

There is the "one day battle" or day of the Lord to consider. There is the armies of Gog and MaGog, as well as the 200 million man army that crossed from the Yellow River, and all meet up near Haifa, Israel, in the area known as Merigeddon (sp). These must be considered as part of any logical analysis, because today they are very real entities, and places.

One thought is that East finally meets West in the area of the Middle east. Then a third party joins in to put an end to this horrific fighting which would destroy the world. Hail the size of men, Lucifer thrown down, a lake of molten fire created...very real possibilities (in the literal sense). Scientists have dubbed the planet cracker asteroid that could hit the earth one day as the Lucifer stone. "Hail" could be the accompanying meteorites that would come with such a large asteroid. Even if is was in fact a ball of dirty ice (comet), the devistation that a large enough one could cause on the local atmosphere of impact is not pretty. The Middle East is thick with subsurface oil. Such an impact could infact create a "lake of fire". Certainly there would be no battle, after such an impact, as all would be pulverized.

There is a "crater" in the United states that is over a mile in diameter, and 800 feet deep, and it was caused by a 100 ft diameter (at impact) meteor, traveling at 17,000 to 65,000 mph. Just one small little piece of rock...

In 1906, something exploded over the Siberian forests, that leveled hundreds of miles of trees, wiping villages from existence (and it never made land fall).

Perhaps the "symbology" of Revelations isn't so symbolic...?

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
There is the "one day battle" or day of the Lord to consider. There is the armies of Gog and MaGog, as well as the 200 million man army that crossed from the Yellow River, and all meet up near Haifa, Israel, in the area known as Merigeddon (sp). These must be considered as part of any logical analysis, because today they are very real entities, and places.

One thought is that East finally meets West in the area of the Middle east. Then a third party joins in to put an end to this horrific fighting which would destroy the world. Hail the size of men, Lucifer thrown down, a lake of molten fire created...very real possibilities (in the literal sense). Scientists have dubbed the planet cracker asteroid that could hit the earth one day as the Lucifer stone. "Hail" could be the accompanying meteorites that would come with such a large asteroid. Even if is was in fact a ball of dirty ice (comet), the devistation that a large enough one could cause on the local atmosphere of impact is not pretty. The Middle East is thick with subsurface oil. Such an impact could infact create a "lake of fire". Certainly there would be no battle, after such an impact, as all would be pulverized.

There is a "crater" in the United states that is over a mile in diameter, and 800 feet deep, and it was caused by a 100 ft diameter (at impact) meteor, traveling at 17,000 to 65,000 mph. Just one small little piece of rock...

In 1906, something exploded over the Siberian forests, that leveled hundreds of miles of trees, wiping villages from existence (and it never made land fall).

Perhaps the "symbology" of Revelations isn't so symbolic...?

v/r

Q

The central figure, or leader, of the earth-wide assault against the Messianic Kingdom and its subjects, according to Revelation, is Satan the Devil. He is the only person in the Biblical record who can be said to fulfill adequately the description and role assigned to ‘Gog of Magog’ in the prophecy given to Ezekiel. The prophecy in Ezekiel concerning Gog therefore points to a vicious, earth-wide assault on God’s people, an assault engineered and led by the abased Satan the Devil. This attack is what triggers the complete wiping out of such Satanic forces by means of God’s awesome power.—Eze 38:18-22.

 
Quahom1 said:
There is the "one day battle" or day of the Lord to consider. There is the armies of Gog and MaGog, as well as the 200 million man army that crossed from the Yellow River, and all meet up near Haifa, Israel, in the area known as Merigeddon (sp). These must be considered as part of any logical analysis, because today they are very real entities, and places.

One thought is that East finally meets West in the area of the Middle east. Then a third party joins in to put an end to this horrific fighting which would destroy the world. Hail the size of men, Lucifer thrown down, a lake of molten fire created...very real possibilities (in the literal sense). Scientists have dubbed the planet cracker asteroid that could hit the earth one day as the Lucifer stone. "Hail" could be the accompanying meteorites that would come with such a large asteroid. Even if is was in fact a ball of dirty ice (comet), the devistation that a large enough one could cause on the local atmosphere of impact is not pretty. The Middle East is thick with subsurface oil. Such an impact could infact create a "lake of fire". Certainly there would be no battle, after such an impact, as all would be pulverized.

There is a "crater" in the United states that is over a mile in diameter, and 800 feet deep, and it was caused by a 100 ft diameter (at impact) meteor, traveling at 17,000 to 65,000 mph. Just one small little piece of rock...

In 1906, something exploded over the Siberian forests, that leveled hundreds of miles of trees, wiping villages from existence (and it never made land fall).

Perhaps the "symbology" of Revelations isn't so symbolic...?

v/r

Q
yah. i dont think it is JUST symbolic. there is a lot of real stuff going on in there...as if a WWIII is not possible? i believe it is extremely possible.

some of it is surely symbolic. does not History repeat itself?

naturally John would see horses & not tanks & bomber jets.

like you say...God & Magog. the seven vials of wrath do not just seem symbolic to me. the seven churches of Asia are not just symbolic.
AntiChrist rule of the globe & 7 year tribulation is not just symbolic. The second death is not just symbolic.

There is a place where it says GOD calls the armies of the to battle.

God will avenge those who have taken the blood of the saints.
God is going to have His way.
 
mee said:

The central figure, or leader, of the earth-wide assault against the Messianic Kingdom and its subjects, according to Revelation, is Satan the Devil. He is the only person in the Biblical record who can be said to fulfill adequately the description and role assigned to ‘Gog of Magog’ in the prophecy given to Ezekiel. The prophecy in Ezekiel concerning Gog therefore points to a vicious, earth-wide assault on God’s people, an assault engineered and led by the abased Satan the Devil. This attack is what triggers the complete wiping out of such Satanic forces by means of God’s awesome power.—Eze 38:18-22.

Fine, but how do you dispute the "use" of heavenly bodies to assists in quashing degenerative man, hell bent on annhialating himself and all other life on Earth? Symbolic? Over and over again the scripture states "let he who understands..."

Again, rhetrorical question. Since none of us know the truth about the future.

Some say real, and others say symbolic. Let's continue on shall we...? There is much more to cover in REVELATION :D

v/r

Q
 
Mee who do you consider Gods people? God was pretty clear throughout the bible on who His people were..The gentiles are adopted in but are still not of the tribes of Judah.

Now lets look at this....

Ezekiel 38 1 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 and say, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. 5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all its troops; the house of Togarmah from the far north and all its troops--many people are with you.

Lets look at who Gog is....

Gen 10 1 Now this is the genealogy of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And sons were born to them after the flood. 2 The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. 3 The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 The sons of Javan were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5 From these the coastland peoples of the Gentiles were separated into their lands, everyone according to his language, according to their families, into their nations

Ok so Gog is the son of Japheth... now where would that be located?

Japheth, literally means "opened" or "expanded". Naturally in the sense that his descendents settled all Europe and the greater part of Asia, and later colonised and developed the Western Hemisphere previously ruled by Ham and Canaan, as Shem replaced Canaan in the Promised Land. For obvious reasons, Japheth never expanded to the Far East. And Spiritually through the fulfillment of Genesis 9:27 and Matthew 21:43 wherein Jesus said to Shem, "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation, ("ethnos" or Gentile culture), bringing forth the fruits thereof". That is, a people with the faith of Abraham (Galatians 3:26-29).

From Japheth derive the Indo-Europeans and the Medes. The early Aryans knew Japheth as Djapatischta (chief of the race); Greeks referred to Japheth as Iapetos or Japetos; East Indians called him Iyapeti or Pra-Japati; Romans deified him by the name Ju-Pater or Jupiter. The Saxons perpetuated his name as Iafeth, subsequently transliterated as Sceaf (pronounced sheef or shaif), and recorded in their early genealogies as the son of Noah the forebear of their various peoples (Anglo-Saxon Chronicles). The variant Seskef was used by the early Scandinavians. All of these peoples, we must remember, were pagans whose knowledge or even awareness of the book of Genesis was non-existent.

The Japhetic tribes being furthest from the theocratic centre were last in attaining to historic eminance, and "enlarging" with much greater minuteness to detail the Hamitic and Arabian nations which were soonest developed and with which the Hebrews came most into contact in the initial stages of their journey through time.

History has recorded Japheth's geographical enlargement. The entire Western hemisphere of our globe is settled by Japhetic peoples, and East Indians are of the same stock. The record of Japheth's spread (enlargement) over the earth has been marred consistently by his destruction of the cultures which were already in existence wherever he arrived in sufficient force to achieve dominion. It happened in the Americas, Africa, Asia, Australia, and only numerical superiority of the native population has hitherto preserved parts of Africa from the same fate. Indeed, in early historic times the pattern of events is repeated again and again, whatever cultural advances the pioneering Hamites had achieved tended to be swallowed up by the succeeding Japhethites. The "enlargement" of Japheth has continued to this day, an enlargement greatly accelerated geographically in the last few centuries -- frequently at the expense of the Hamites (or Canaanites) who first possessed the land.

Gomer, literally means "completion" and is the progenitor of the early Cimmerians and other branches of the Celtic family. Settling in eastern Europe near the Black Sea, he became the Gauls/French, Galatians, Gaels/Scots, Celts/Irish, Goths/Germans/Scandinavians, Saxons/Britons/Welsh, Dutch, Armenians, Romans and related groups.

Magog, means "overtopping" or "covering". Settling first in Georgia, a region between the Black and Caspian Seas south of the Caucasus Mountains, he became the Synthians, Russians, Belorussians and Ukranians.

Madai, means "middle land". He settled northwest of Persia proper, south and southwest of the Caspian Sea, east of Armenia and Assyria, and west and northwest of the great salt desert of Iran in the ancient kingdom of Media, now Iraq and the northern part of Iran. He is the father of the Medes and East Indians.

Javan, means "effervescing" or one in a state of bubbling heat". He fathered the Ionians and Greeks. His sons occupy Cyprus, Rhodes, and other islands and coasts of the Mediterranean and the coast of Spain, Italy and Portugal.

Tubal, means, "thou shalt be led". The city of Tobolsk was named after him. He settled near Cappadocia in Asia Minor and fathered the Bulgarians, Hungarians, Albanians, Romanians, other related groups.

Meshech means "led along". The city of Moscow (Muskovi) is named after him. Initially settling in northern Turkey south east of the Caspian Sea, he fathered the Poles, Finns, Czechs, Yugoslavs and other related groups.

Tiras, means "expulsion", "impoverish" or "disinherit". He settled across the Propontis and fathered the Thracians, maritime groups, and possibly the Etruscans of Italy.

Through his sons Ashkenaz, Riphath and Togarmah, Gomer peopled much of Armenia and the Carpathian Mountains.

Ashkenaz, means "a man as sprinkled: fire as scattered". He settled first in Armenia, migrating thence to Bithynia, the northern islands of Europe and European west coast: Germany, Scandinavia and Denmark.

Riphath, means "slander: fault". He settled in Czechslovakia, Romania, and Turkey.

Togarmah, means "thou wilt break her". His earliest descendants settled in Armenia, Turkey and Germany. In the late eighth century BC, Assyria probably uprooted and transported most of those still living in Armenia.

Elishah, means "my God has disregarded". The Greek translation is "Hellas". His descendants settled in Greece.

Tarshish, means "she will cause poverty: she will shatter". He settled Spain.

Kittim, means "beaters-down" or "bruisers". Kittim settled Cyprus, other Mediterranean islands, and Macedonia.

Dodanium, means "leaders". He settled Rhodes and the Dardanelles and was subsequently deified and worshipped as Jupiter Dodonaeus.

You can see the map on this link http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bb000319.htm
 
mee said:

The central figure, or leader, of the earth-wide assault against the Messianic Kingdom and its subjects, according to Revelation, is Satan the Devil. He is the only person in the Biblical record who can be said to fulfill adequately the description and role assigned to ‘Gog of Magog’ in the prophecy given to Ezekiel. The prophecy in Ezekiel concerning Gog therefore points to a vicious, earth-wide assault on God’s people, an assault engineered and led by the abased Satan the Devil. This attack is what triggers the complete wiping out of such Satanic forces by means of God’s awesome power.—Eze 38:18-22.


Hi mee,

How do JW's view Satan? Is he a fallen angel? Was he created by God but willfully turned away? Does he have any real power, or is he only a corrupter and tempter. When you say the assault will be led by Satan, do you mean he will be embodied, or merely influencing a mortal?

Curious,
lunamoth
 
lunamoth said:
Hi mee,

How do JW's view Satan? Is he a fallen angel? Was he created by God but willfully turned away? Does he have any real power, or is he only a corrupter and tempter. When you say the assault will be led by Satan, do you mean he will be embodied, or merely influencing a mortal?

Curious,
lunamoth

The Scriptures indicate that the creature known as Satan did not always have that name. Rather, this descriptive name was given to him because of his taking a course of opposition and resistance to God. The name he had before this is not given. God is the only Creator, and ‘his activity is perfect,’ with no injustice or unrighteousness. (De 32:4) Therefore, the one becoming Satan was, when created, a perfect, righteous creature of God. He is a spirit person, for he appeared in heaven in the presence of God. (Job chaps 1, 2; Re 12:9) Jesus Christ said of him: "That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him." (Joh 8:44; 1Jo 3:8) Jesus here shows that Satan was once in the truth, but forsook it. Beginning with his first overt act in turning Adam and Eve away from God, he was a manslayer, for he thereby brought about the death of Adam and Eve, which, in turn, brought sin and death to their offspring. (Ro 5:12) The bible also tells us that he is the ruler of the world at the momment(1 john 5; 19)

 
Quahom1 said:
Fine, but how do you dispute the "use" of heavenly bodies to assists in quashing degenerative man, hell bent on annhialating himself and all other life on Earth? Symbolic? Over and over again the scripture states "let he who understands..."

Again, rhetrorical question. Since none of us know the truth about the future.

Some say real, and others say symbolic. Let's continue on shall we...? There is much more to cover in REVELATION :D

v/r

Q
Armageddon is described in the last book of the bible as the war of the great day of God almighty (rev 16;14,16)
But it will be far different from a nuclear holocaust! Such a holocaust would likely mean the annihilation of all life on earth. On the contrary, God’s Word gives the happy assurance that only wicked opposers of God will be destroyed—by forces under God’s control. (Psalm 37:9, 10; 145:20) A great crowd of humans, out of all nations, will survive the climax of divine judgment at Armageddon. Christ Jesus will then shepherd and guide these to life everlasting in a paradise earth

 
mee said:

The Scriptures indicate that the creature known as Satan did not always have that name. Rather, this descriptive name was given to him because of his taking a course of opposition and resistance to God. The name he had before this is not given. God is the only Creator, and ‘his activity is perfect,’ with no injustice or unrighteousness. (De 32:4) Therefore, the one becoming Satan was, when created, a perfect, righteous creature of God. He is a spirit person, for he appeared in heaven in the presence of God. (Job chaps 1, 2; Re 12:9) Jesus Christ said of him: "That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him." (Joh 8:44; 1Jo 3:8) Jesus here shows that Satan was once in the truth, but forsook it. Beginning with his first overt act in turning Adam and Eve away from God, he was a manslayer, for he thereby brought about the death of Adam and Eve, which, in turn, brought sin and death to their offspring. (Ro 5:12) The bible also tells us that he is the ruler of the world at the momment(1 john 5; 19)

i thought his original name is Lucifer. god of this world(earth)

the rest looks good to me.
 
As far as Lucifer goes, this name didn't come into being until two and a half thousand years after Isaiah wrote of the luminous falling star. Translated into Latin it is Lucifer (light bearer)

Isaiah 14:12-15 How you have fallen from heaven, Omorning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations.
 
Hi All,

I can see my wandering curiosity has derailed the discussion a bit--sorry.

I'll try to stay on topic. :)

What's next?

lunamoth
 
lunamoth said:
Hi All,

I can see my wandering curiosity has derailed the discussion a bit--sorry.

I'll try to stay on topic. :)

What's next?

lunamoth
hee hee, well we could talk about Lucifer. Instead. :D :D :D

pick a chapter. any chapter. we kind of did the first one.

here is the seven churches if anyone wants to do these.

FIRST CHURCH

2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
What is it about this church, that Jesus had something against them?
 
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