Is it cool to beat your wife?
- Thread starter Awaiting_the_fifth
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Hello, and Peace to All Here (except for wife-beaters
)
In reading back over this thread, I found a comment that just hit SO home with me:
My aunt May who weighed a little less than 100 pounds all her life had a real working knowledge of the cast iron skillet.
Guess I just thought that since I found this thread and this post at this time, I would just post Bandit's comment in case he is still around somewhere....
Good one, Bandit--don't drive too fast.
InPeace,
InLove
)In reading back over this thread, I found a comment that just hit SO home with me:
Bandit said:i guess you could beat on your wife. just be prepared to have an iron skillet bounced off your head or be run over by the family car.
My aunt May who weighed a little less than 100 pounds all her life had a real working knowledge of the cast iron skillet.
Guess I just thought that since I found this thread and this post at this time, I would just post Bandit's comment in case he is still around somewhere....
Good one, Bandit--don't drive too fast.
InPeace,
InLove
InLove said:Hello, and Peace to All Here (except for wife-beaters
In reading back over this thread, I found a comment that just hit SO home with me:
My aunt May who weighed a little less than 100 pounds all her life had a real working knowledge of the cast iron skillet.
Guess I just thought that since I found this thread and this post at this time, I would just post Bandit's comment in case he is still around somewhere....
Good one, Bandit--don't drive too fast.
InPeace,
InLove
Hmmm, I think he meant "DUCK", or "Get the hell out of the way!"
He is telling the truth, though it sounds funny...it is not. It hurts.
v/r
Q
Hi, Peace---
Well no, it wasn't funny for Uncle Adam, but he didn't go to jail, and he didn't die that day, and he never beat her again.
(Edited to add: Maybe I should mention that May and Adam were my great aunt and uncle--never had the "pleasure" of meeting Adam and "the boys" . I come from roots that if I told you about, you might think I was tellin' stories. I can tell stories, but LOL--I don't need to make anything up )
InPeace,
InLove
Well no, it wasn't funny for Uncle Adam, but he didn't go to jail, and he didn't die that day, and he never beat her again.
(Edited to add: Maybe I should mention that May and Adam were my great aunt and uncle--never had the "pleasure" of meeting Adam and "the boys"
. I come from roots that if I told you about, you might think I was tellin' stories. I can tell stories, but LOL--I don't need to make anything up ) InPeace,
InLove
InLove said:Hi, Peace---
Well no, it wasn't funny for Uncle Adam, but he didn't go to jail, and he didn't die that day, and he never beat her again.
(Edited to add: Maybe I should mention that May and Adam were my great aunt and uncle--never had the "pleasure" of meeting Adam and "the boys"
InPeace,
InLove
Hey, I'm related to a popular singer in the US. Never met him, but none the less the blood in our veins is from the same forefathers. (And he and my dad could be brothers, by the look of their faces, voice timber/tone and body build). So tell your "stories".
v/r
Q
Bi Dhikri Allah
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You also have to look at the context of the revelation, the time period and the state of affairs of women then.
Back then, women were looked as property-that was it. THey had no right to vote or to speak up when the husband made decisions. They couldn't work and they were not respected at all.
When Islam came around, Allah made it an obligation for the women to get an education and required their say in their own marriage affairs. They were told to cover themselves, certainly not a manmade law! So much respect was given to the women after Islam, subhanAllah. Women were allowed to own property and inherit property and vote, make money, divorce, etc.
When that verse was revealed, Allah actually placed restrictions on the men and not the women.
It was recognized that men couldn't just stop beating their wives if they were used to it for so long, so instead of causing rebellion by outright abolishing it, Allah placed soo many restrictions on this act that it hardly ever ever comes to it being crucial without some other form of action first.
The beauty of this is the women, on the other hand, have no restrictions whatsoever and even if someone wanted to place restrictions on the women today, they couldn't!
Back then, women were looked as property-that was it. THey had no right to vote or to speak up when the husband made decisions. They couldn't work and they were not respected at all.
When Islam came around, Allah made it an obligation for the women to get an education and required their say in their own marriage affairs. They were told to cover themselves, certainly not a manmade law! So much respect was given to the women after Islam, subhanAllah. Women were allowed to own property and inherit property and vote, make money, divorce, etc.
When that verse was revealed, Allah actually placed restrictions on the men and not the women.
It was recognized that men couldn't just stop beating their wives if they were used to it for so long, so instead of causing rebellion by outright abolishing it, Allah placed soo many restrictions on this act that it hardly ever ever comes to it being crucial without some other form of action first.
The beauty of this is the women, on the other hand, have no restrictions whatsoever and even if someone wanted to place restrictions on the women today, they couldn't!
Thank you, Bi Dhikri Allah for your post. This is what I have understood in reading the Q'uran, as well, but not being a Muslim, and so not well-versed enough in Islam to answer very well (or sometimes even to ask!), I haven't known what to say.
InPeace,
InLove
InPeace,
InLove
Awaiting_the_fifth
Where is my mind?
I do not understand, and this is my fault I am sure.
I am under the impression that the Quran is the indisputable word of God, could someone confirm or dedy this please.
If this is so, then how can we take what is said in any context other than our own lives. Surely God would not leave his holy word in such a way that it can only be understood if the reader has a firm grasp of Arabian cultural history.
I am not attacking anyone here, please, I want to understand.
I am under the impression that the Quran is the indisputable word of God, could someone confirm or dedy this please.
If this is so, then how can we take what is said in any context other than our own lives. Surely God would not leave his holy word in such a way that it can only be understood if the reader has a firm grasp of Arabian cultural history.
I am not attacking anyone here, please, I want to understand.
Hi, Fifth--
I am going to attempt an answer, but it will probably be a bit clumsy. First let me check--what board am I on? (Scrolling up...okay, I can post--can't be too careful about that!)
Just as in Christianity/Judaism, Islam has gone through historical changes. We can read about some of these changes in the respective holy books. That does not mean that God/Allah nor the truth changes. It just means that the original plan allowed for--how do I put this?--perhaps "pre-planned change" in the hearts of believers?
Okay--told you that was going to be clumsy. Maybe someone a little more adept at this can also answer???
InPeace,
InLove
Awaiting_the_fifth said:
I am going to attempt an answer, but it will probably be a bit clumsy. First let me check--what board am I on?
(Scrolling up...okay, I can post--can't be too careful about that!)Just as in Christianity/Judaism, Islam has gone through historical changes. We can read about some of these changes in the respective holy books. That does not mean that God/Allah nor the truth changes. It just means that the original plan allowed for--how do I put this?--perhaps "pre-planned change" in the hearts of believers?
Okay--told you that was going to be clumsy. Maybe someone a little more adept at this can also answer???
InPeace,
InLove
Awaiting_the_fifth said:
Hi
Awaiting_the_fifth
Yes Quran is the indisputable word of God ... no one can add or delete even letter , the new technology prove this , there are a computer program explain that Quraan words and verses and chapters have a numerical arrangement .so whom can did that before around 1400 years ago ?
As Quraan is a Words of Allah so we must ( As Muslim and believers ) accept them without any doubt ... Allah create people (Adam & Eve) and he know the psychological building of each one of them .. women are so sensitive being ..she may take peppery decisions which may damage her life and her family ... Man should take the responsibility to save his family and his wife .
Quraan told man to treat his wife in a good way but if their are any problem he must follow steps to solve this problem .. the final one to beat her as the baby not to harm her .
Quraan words are very simple if you can have a translation of Quraan ...you can have a translation of interpretation of his words ... because some verses send in certain occasion .so we must refer to the conditions and the occasion of these verses to understand it .
Hope this can help ...
The Quran is supposed to have been revealed by God in clear, comprehensible Arabic, which I believe is not difficult to translate in other languages.
How come men have to discuss at length some words from God ?
Is there something in those words that they accept only reluctantly ? Isn't God's word sufficient, without having to resort to the Prophet or to Muslim scholars' opinions ?
What is written in the Quran is from God and no human being can take His place. If God thinks the word "beat" has to be in the verse then nobody is entitled to modify that word.
How come men have to discuss at length some words from God ?
Is there something in those words that they accept only reluctantly ? Isn't God's word sufficient, without having to resort to the Prophet or to Muslim scholars' opinions ?
What is written in the Quran is from God and no human being can take His place. If God thinks the word "beat" has to be in the verse then nobody is entitled to modify that word.
mansio said:
If God Himself penned the words, I would not argue with you on your point. But God did not pen the words, man did, and stated that they were inspired by God (which I do not doubt for a second). However, Man has the uncanny knack of interjecting His own thoughts, wishes, desires, and in this case, hidden rage, into verbage, and then call it God sent revelation.
If I recall, when man left the garden, he was told all that would befall him. Nowhere did it say that woman would be beaten by man. Oh, she would suffer pain (labors of child birth), and he would toil in the soil for his daily sustanence, and they would cling to eachother for comfort.
It specifically states that man will rule over woman, and she will desire after man.
If you equate "rule over" with "beating"...then I suspect there is a deeper issue.
God never said "take the rod to the back of the woman". He did say, "spare the rod, spoil the "Child".
"Beating" a woman, does not neccessarily have to be physical, either. It can be psychological, verbal, emotional, or a combination of all...but for what? To break her spirit, her will? Is she no more than a horse?
Even if she is no more than a horse, then I submit to you that attempting to break a woman, is to sign one's own death certificate. For a "horse" broken in will and spirit does not come to the "masters" aid, when in dire need. The horse will simply stand there, while the master suffers.
A "horse" with strong spirit and "tamed" will, on the other hand, will defend the master, willingly with it's life if needed, and with no regrets, or hesitation.
That is a horse...Woman is so much more than a horse, or a man...
She is life, and man is the servant of life, not the master of it...
Hated and held in contempt is the man who beats his wife. Adored is the man who rebukes and corrects the actions of his wife, with firmness yet the tenderness born of love for her.
That is what Mohammed's message was to us men. I get it, and I'm not Muslim...
Guess you are right. Anyone can understand the Qu'ran, if they really want to.
v/r
Q
p.s. thanks "dialogue is best", I now understand what you were trying to tell me.
17th Angel
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No it isn't cool to "beat" on anyone... But self defense is acceptable in my mind... Example. If a woman attacks me or hits me I wouldn't care that she was a female she will have to deal with the reaction she will receive. But if I was just upset or angry or whatever I wouldn't lash out at a woman. Especially my wife.... But there needs to be a limit. Women obviously wanted equal rights (power to them, they should have.) But they tend to think when it comes to physical violence they are above equal...
Ciel
in essence
Is it cool to beat your wife?
Is it cool this question is even considered on this board?
- c -
Is it cool this question is even considered on this board?
- c -
Would it be different if it were titled what methods of discipline are allowable based on your scripture and theology?
Q, makes some interesting points (post #17) how times have changed in the US, and how this was not uncommon not so very long ago. I always marvel how when we advance socially in only one or two generations we expect the world to be on the same field as us, despite the fact that they don't have the social or econmic forces in place which allowed our 'enlightenment' to occur.
I also remember neigbors and friends enforcing rules of decorum in absence of parents. And when they told my parents what I did, or what I was perceived to have done, and what they did in response...it was basically gratitude, and keep up the good work. I learned early on, that if I was reprimanded verbally or physically by another adult not to report it to my parents as the punishment was likely to be continued....it was a different day and time, I look back and don't consider any of what I recieved as child abuse, however today it would have been lawsuits.
I was shot in the backside with rock salt from a shot gun, back handed hard enough to receive a black eye, swollen jaw and flip backwards over a bed and up against the wall, received welts from the hickory stick, wooden spoon, spatula, belt, spankin stick the principle at school had... I gotta admit, I feel I deserved all of it at the time...I knew the potential reprecussions and went ahead and did the damage anyway. When I was a kid your parents had to sign a paper taking the right of corporal punishment AWAY from the public school. Granted I look at all of it now as a parent in the year 2006 with completely different eyes...can't imagine it. Nor can I imagine beating my wife.
As for discussion, I think discussion leads to understanding. And this is appropriate for this board, it would be a problem if it were in the lounge.
Q, makes some interesting points (post #17) how times have changed in the US, and how this was not uncommon not so very long ago. I always marvel how when we advance socially in only one or two generations we expect the world to be on the same field as us, despite the fact that they don't have the social or econmic forces in place which allowed our 'enlightenment' to occur.
I also remember neigbors and friends enforcing rules of decorum in absence of parents. And when they told my parents what I did, or what I was perceived to have done, and what they did in response...it was basically gratitude, and keep up the good work. I learned early on, that if I was reprimanded verbally or physically by another adult not to report it to my parents as the punishment was likely to be continued....it was a different day and time, I look back and don't consider any of what I recieved as child abuse, however today it would have been lawsuits.
I was shot in the backside with rock salt from a shot gun, back handed hard enough to receive a black eye, swollen jaw and flip backwards over a bed and up against the wall, received welts from the hickory stick, wooden spoon, spatula, belt, spankin stick the principle at school had... I gotta admit, I feel I deserved all of it at the time...I knew the potential reprecussions and went ahead and did the damage anyway. When I was a kid your parents had to sign a paper taking the right of corporal punishment AWAY from the public school. Granted I look at all of it now as a parent in the year 2006 with completely different eyes...can't imagine it. Nor can I imagine beating my wife.
As for discussion, I think discussion leads to understanding. And this is appropriate for this board, it would be a problem if it were in the lounge.
Ciel
in essence
Q and Wil,
It's a woman's perspective, every time I see the title of this thread it sends a shudder. Any other women feel the same way?
- c -
It's a woman's perspective, every time I see the title of this thread it sends a shudder. Any other women feel the same way?
- c -
I can absolutely understand that. Maybe if we added the words, 'at chess', or 'at tennis'. Truth is women have been opressed so long it is ridiculous and their will come a time in the not to distant future where this thought will be as far back in our memory as slavery.Ciel said:
I'm now contemplating all the things I'd like to see lost from our memories...intolerance, hunger, war, racism....