Evil? let us try Misjudged

[DemocraticIndecision]

This post is not a post on christianity as a whole but more of observations of the christian people people falling into the category also are catholics, born agains, baptists, all denominations. haha ok here we go "ENGAGE". I am ye blessed metal head the whole 9 yards too. All black, combat boots, long hair,chains everywhere, disgusting t-shirts but its me and I am happy!!!! I am not depressed and I enjoy what I turned out to be. But yet everytime ive ever walked into a church or met a christian they feel the need to "save me" man this is exactly what I was telling someone about I AM SAVED and I love god and jesus christ. I dont need anyones special prayers or love because I know where my faith is and it is with god. so why is it these people either think im ABSOLUTE EVIL, THE DEVIL, or think THIS GUY NEEDS SAVED BECAUSE HE IS DIFFERENT. It goes something like this I am not an angry guy I am generally happy but when people approach me like that it makes me mad and upset.

any opinions to my conundrum?

 

[Freedom of Opinion]

Some people fear what they do not understand. Others assume that you cannot be happy unless you are exactly like them. Even more accept that the differences among us are what make the world interesting. You seem to simply come across the the middle group more often.

 

[Faithfulservant]

This post is not a post on christianity as a whole but more of observations of the christian people people falling into the category also are catholics, born agains, baptists, all denominations. haha ok here we go "ENGAGE". I am ye blessed metal head the whole 9 yards too. All black, combat boots, long hair,chains everywhere, disgusting t-shirts but its me and I am happy!!!! I am not depressed and I enjoy what I turned out to be. But yet everytime ive ever walked into a church or met a christian they feel the need to "save me" man this is exactly what I was telling someone about I AM SAVED and I love god and jesus christ. I dont need anyones special prayers or love because I know where my faith is and it is with god. so why is it these people either think im ABSOLUTE EVIL, THE DEVIL, or think THIS GUY NEEDS SAVED BECAUSE HE IS DIFFERENT. It goes something like this I am not an angry guy I am generally happy but when people approach me like that it makes me mad and upset.

any opinions to my conundrum?

I was a "metal head" in the 80's.. I was saved then too and I loved Jesus so I understand what you are saying. I just want to say that everyone needs special prayers and love... rather than be upset when people approach you.. let your light shine!! Tell them that you love Jesus Christ and that He's the saviour of your soul right off the bat. Tell them that Jesus Christ loves YOU just the way you are...without judgements and conditions...

You might also remind them that Jesus was certainly not a conformist in His day... and teaches us not to be. He came to save the world...

You are an individual in the whole body of Christ... Not everyone can be an arm or a leg.. You serve your purpose and Live for Him and let the negative reactions blow over you like nothing. Praise Him for allowing you the freedom to love Him without having to conform to anyone elses ideas of whats right and wrong... Jesus knows your heart and thats all that counts..

Your sister in Christ

 

[InLove]

Hi, DI and all--Peace

I cannot even begin to tell you the number of times the kids I "teach" in my music class at church have had such cool ideas to present to the congregation--ideas that were in no way outside the Gospel Truth. But we could not present these ideas because of, oh--I dunno--ambience or something? Perhaps someone was afraid it would run the "old folks" off or something. Anyway--the kids love the old folks, too, and so they handle it pretty well. They just continue, as Faithfulservant advised, to "let their light shine" anyway.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Quahom1]

This post is not a post on christianity as a whole but more of observations of the christian people people falling into the category also are catholics, born agains, baptists, all denominations. haha ok here we go "ENGAGE". I am ye blessed metal head the whole 9 yards too. All black, combat boots, long hair,chains everywhere, disgusting t-shirts but its me and I am happy!!!! I am not depressed and I enjoy what I turned out to be. But yet everytime ive ever walked into a church or met a christian they feel the need to "save me" man this is exactly what I was telling someone about I AM SAVED and I love god and jesus christ. I dont need anyones special prayers or love because I know where my faith is and it is with god. so why is it these people either think im ABSOLUTE EVIL, THE DEVIL, or think THIS GUY NEEDS SAVED BECAUSE HE IS DIFFERENT. It goes something like this I am not an angry guy I am generally happy but when people approach me like that it makes me mad and upset.

any opinions to my conundrum?

There is a difference between that which is seen, and that which is perceived.

I will impart a little bit of advice that you can take or leave. A kind word, turns away wrath...

If you are comfortable in how you present self, then anger should not be foremost on your mind.

The most shocking thing a "metal head" can do to those who think they are the epitome of Christianity is stating quietly "I understand how you feel, but rest assured, Jesus is my savior".

LOL, I am reminded of the annecdote of what would happen if Jesus walked in to one of the more prim/proper churches today, dressed as he would have been 2000 years ago...he'd be escorted out in short order, for not adhering to the "dress code".

Go to a catholic church "dressed as you are". Do these three things. Walk in, put your hand in the bowl of blessed water and make the sign of the cross upon your face. walk up to the front of the church (before God and country), and genuflect (drop to one knee), before the alter. Then take a seat in a pew. Kneel when everyone else kneels, stand when they stand, sit when they sit and go up to "communion" and say "Ahmen" when the priest says "Body of Christ..." And sing if you know the words to the song that is being played.

Within one hour, you will see (literally see), people change before your eyes, their opinion of you.

When you walk out, dip your hand in the holy water bowl beside the door and cross your face again, and shake hands with the priest (if he is present to greet the parishoners outside). If he asks you why you are there (or anything to that order), state that you wanted to see if you would be accepted, as you are...and thank him for letting you come to the church and be part of the service...

If he says simply "Welcome", then accept it as fact.

v/r

Q

 

[DemocraticIndecision]

one thing i forgot to mention everytime that happens "the approach" i dont get mad right away i do say things like I love jesus or The lord god be my saviour they get mad cause they think im joking and mocking them "then i get mad"

 

[juantoo3]

Kindest Regards, all!

I have been following along, understanding and reflecting. I will begin by saying I am in agreement, people do tend to judge books by their covers.

There is a little thing though that I can't seem to remove from my thoughts. Perhaps it is not Biblical, I can't seem to find the reference I was looking for (I was thinking Proverbs or Ecclesiastes). It is basic human psychology though, that when we see something "dirty" (for example, not calling anybody dirty) we draw certain automatic conclusions. Those conclusions are not always correct, but we draw them anyway. When we see something unpleasant, we tend to look away.

You demonstrate a very good lesson here, all the way around. Yes, people do jump to conclusions that perhaps we shouldn't. Somebody interviewing applicants for a job certainly will look for those who "dress for success." How we dress is a sub-conscious reflection of what we think of ourselves. We feel good about ourselves when we dress nice. And that projects to the public.

I cannot help but wonder if your "non-conformist" attire is a deliberate attempt to provoke hasty conclusions. It is equally a reflection of your sub-conscious, a reflection of how you feel about yourself. I would think you desire to stand out, to not conform. Which is fine, on your time. Were you in my employ, especially in a position where you would have to "meet and greet" the public, I'm afraid you would not last long in that position. Whether anybody's perceptions of you were valid or not is really irrelevent. If you are scaring away customers, I would have to do something to fix that problem. That's just life.

Put another way: when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Paul said something very similar. Paraphrased, To the Romans I am a Roman, to the Greeks I am a Greek, to the Jews I am a Jew. I think that applied as much to attire as attitude.

Would you trust a preacher standing at a pulpit in front of a congregation in a house of worship, dressed in filthy blue jeans with holes in the knees, and a filthy torn Rock and Roll band t-shirt? I don't think that projects a very trustworthy aura to those "he" is asking to trust "him."

I guess what I am trying in a non-offensive way to say is this: On your time and in your space, do as you wish. That is expressing your personality, that is you being you. When in God's house though, dress for Him, even if not for others.

Besides, I think the chameleon attitude is much, much more non-conformist. Call it "hiding in plain sight."

 

[DemocraticIndecision]

More or less It isnt how I see myself because ya know I was raised on music and black clothes so therefore it's how I grew up and there is time for change when one is ready. Im a happy guy 5 fingers on each hand 5 toes on each foot 2 arms 2 legs and so on I have ALOT to be happy about and yet of course sometime people have their malfunctions but I am not depressed or see myself as hateful or down I am a shining star in dark armor *to prevent the blinding of ones eyes of course heh heh* but actually It is really comfortable to dress the way I do, not to throw stereotypes but please lets! Ive dressed preppy, sporty, classy, and trashy and Gothic fits me in comfortability. loose jeans and shirts of the bands i absolutely love, call it support cause i call it promotion!! and Boots make my feet cream in joy especially in a job where i deal with heavy equipment, so my feet are protected.

*shwew* theres my point

 

[Quahom1]

Kindest Regards, all!

I have been following along, understanding and reflecting. I will begin by saying I am in agreement, people do tend to judge books by their covers.

There is a little thing though that I can't seem to remove from my thoughts. Perhaps it is not Biblical, I can't seem to find the reference I was looking for (I was thinking Proverbs or Ecclesiastes). It is basic human psychology though, that when we see something "dirty" (for example, not calling anybody dirty) we draw certain automatic conclusions. Those conclusions are not always correct, but we draw them anyway. When we see something unpleasant, we tend to look away.

Perhaps you were thinking of the story of the "Good Samaratin" ?

v/r

Q

 

[iBrian]

I guess what I am trying in a non-offensive way to say is this: On your time and in your space, do as you wish. That is expressing your personality, that is you being you. When in God's house though, dress for Him, even if not for others.

I tend to have an image from somewhere of Jesus dressing in a pretty poor and humble state, and just can't envisage Jesus dressing up smart just to read form Isaiah.

I seem to have an impression that a particular issue Jesus complained against was taking care of outward appearances rather than inward desires.

2c.

 

[Curios Mike]

WOW interesting topic... I'm like you I guess I dont dress up, except for a reason. Usually I waer jeans and maybe a dress shirt, on occasion I'll wear slacks, but alot of time I wear black shirts.... But probably for different reasons then you. I work in the printing industry and Tend to wear my work . So being that ink doesnt show on black that well, or I guess is hidden beter on black then say a white shirt... I wear black......

But anyways goofyness aside I have to agree with all to a certian extent. 1st I agree with Brian in that we are not outward but inward that God checks out. Wether you wear a busness suit or ragss maters not to him, but its what on the indide that counts. But on the other hand sometimes our outward does diplay what on the inward(I'm not nessicarily talking about what you wear as far as apareal).
2ndly
But if you are in some type of ministry I have to agree with juantoo3, becuase I believ this is what Pual was refering to, in certian places in acts he would even change his dialect to relate with a certian group of people. Kinda helps to relate when you want to get your foot in the door, but as far as fellow Christians sniding at your aparal then maybe You could quoet from............

1 Peter 3:3-4
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
KJV

Hope this helps

 

[InLove]

Hey, Mike--

Glad you and Juan brought this up. Ever since I posted the last time about the kids in my class, I've been thinking that I needed to say something else.

Sometimes we do need to give in a little bit. I don't always work with children in my church. Sometimes I am part of an ensemble, sometimes I minister through music solo. Sometimes I fill in for different musicians. And before I started being in the Children's Church every Sunday, I sang in the choir.

Not just at this church, either--another church of a different denomination. Over the years, I have learned that even though I would prefer to dress a certain way (I won't go into it all right now), I am better able to minister when I make sure that what I choose to wear does show a measure of respect for the people who are there to hear me. Modesty does have a place when worshipping within the Body of Christ. This doesn't mean you have to dress like you work at IBM in the sixties! You can be creative. I think the idea is to be sincere in bringing the attention to God, and not ourselves for any selfish purpose. If you can truly say that you are not detracting from the message, then dress however you feel.

When we choose to love others, then we often do find ourselves giving up part of ourselves for their sakes. Just don't lose yourself for any other reason than Love--when you act in Love, it is your real self that God created anyway--

InPeace,
InLove

 

[InLove]

Hi-(ha--its me again)

Guess I wasn't finished, 'cause I thought of some more stuff to say. Thought you might enjoy this.

A few months ago, I was talking with an older lady in our church (the organist), who is very conservative. She came to Texas many years ago from Pennsylvania. She has always had some strict ideas about how one should dress for church--(no pants for women!). Anyway, recently she has been visiting her sister in Florida, and she's had a wonderful time going to church IN SHORTS! LOL--its just a different sort of congregation.

Somewhere around where one of my daughters live (near Houston) is a "Cowboy Church". I mean, for real cowboys--at least it started out that way, from what I understand. Let's face it, cowboys have cowboy clothes, and that is what they wear. Anyway, I guess it "caught on" because now its advertised that way--you know, come to church just as you are (as long as you look like a cowboy?). LOL--we thought about going when we were down visiting my daughter, but "just as I am" would have meant a halter top, cut-offs, flip-flops, and a straw cowboy hat. To dress properly for the "cowboy church", I would have had to spend at least a hundred and fifty bucks for a bunch clothes that would have been so uncomfortable...well, you get the picture?

There is a song by Merle Haggard that talks about all this. I'll see if I can't find the lyrics.

Even though I said all this, I really do mean what I said in the post before this one....

InPeace,
InLove

 

[Bandit]

Hi-(ha--its me again)

Guess I wasn't finished, 'cause I thought of some more stuff to say. Thought you might enjoy this.

A few months ago, I was talking with an older lady in our church (the organist), who is very conservative. She came to Texas many years ago from Pennsylvania. She has always had some strict ideas about how one should dress for church--(no pants for women!). Anyway, recently she has been visiting her sister in Florida, and she's had a wonderful time going to church IN SHORTS! LOL--its just a different sort of congregation.

Somewhere around where one of my daughters live (near Houston) is a "Cowboy Church". I mean, for real cowboys--at least it started out that way, from what I understand. Let's face it, cowboys have cowboy clothes, and that is what they wear. Anyway, I guess it "caught on" because now its advertised that way--you know, come to church just as you are (as long as you look like a cowboy?). LOL--we thought about going when we were down visiting my daughter, but "just as I am" would have meant a halter top, cut-offs, flip-flops, and a straw cowboy hat. To dress properly for the "cowboy church", I would have had to spend at least a hundred and fifty bucks for a bunch clothes that would have been so uncomfortable...well, you get the picture?

There is a song by Merle Haggard that talks about all this. I'll see if I can't find the lyrics.

Even though I said all this, I really do mean what I said in the post before this one....

InPeace,
InLove

what? what next. ash trays & cup holders for the beer cans attached to the back of the pews. i can see it...the preacher in flip flops.
InLove, do you really wear halter tops to church? i cant believe that for a minute.
most of the women at my church really get into dressing up...like really nice dresses & shoes. i think it is refreshing.
i wear jeans & cowboy boots to church sometimes. i really do not like putting on a suit.
there is a guy that has been traveling around the world who wears a robe like jesus & he literally walks from town to town & he does not even own shoes or sandals. some churches take him in & let him preach for an offering. the muslims loved him (or so the article said). last place was alabama. my mom was going to go visit him, but she thinks it is more like a scam.

 

[path_of_one]

I've had a most amusing time observing people's reactions to me depending on my attire. I always act the same way- I tend to be a bit reserved, but not shy, very polite, caring but a bit distant, and highly prone to intellectual conversations with anyone half-way interested. People's perceptions of me, based partially on their own pre-conceived assumptions and partially on the changing variables- my hair, make-up, clothing, situational elements, etc. have ranged over a considerable spectrum. As a cultural anthropologist, I find the entire daily social experiment fascinating.

Personally, I have no set "style" in my clothing/make-up/etc. I have many different interests and different moods, and so my closet is rather eclectic. I have quite a bit of gothic attire. I have California beach attire. I have the power business suits, and the stuff you'd expect a Sunday school teacher to wear. I have clothes for riding around with cowboys (my research demands it), more or less elegant riding attire for dressage lessons, and crummy old jeans and t-shirts for gardening, hiking, and archaeological digs. About the only thing I don't have is stuff that clearly shows a name brand, because I figure if I'm paying good money for clothes, I shouldn't be giving them free advertising.

What is fascinating is the interaction between my "style" of the day and the people with whom I come into contact. It's never just about your style or overall behavioral pattern- it's about how this interacts with others' assumptions, worldviews, and backgrounds. I'm pretty good at the chameleon act, not only in my style but my entire way of behaving. It's a good skill to have as an anthropologist, because the faster you can blend in anywhere, the more comfortable you make people and the more rapidly they will talk and hang out with you, aiding in research. It's a skill that everyone more or less needs to some degree, but as (I think it was Juan) said, it is one's decision how much to play chameleon versus be oneself without compromise. Personally, having a rather strong sense of myself, I find no problem with mostly blending in. I find it is much easier to produce tolerance and critical thinking in people, and reflection on their own assumptions and biases, if you mostly make them comfortable but are just different enough- this renders them unthreatened but curious, and that is where mutual learning can take place.

It is essential, despite one's continued experience with stereotyping based on one's appearance, to avoid stereotyping others. It is very easy to fall into the trap of reacting to rejection from some Christians, for example, by assuming that this will occur at every church and from every more-or-less conservative Christian, which alters your own subtle behavioral cues and mood when you deal with people, and furthers the problem. Very subtle cues, such as posture, are subconsciously recognized by others and may reinforce their feeling that you are threatening or do not belong in their group. They don't realize they read these cues, and chances are you don't realize you send them. But everyone does it- nonverbal communication is a basic part of our lives.

Bottom line, you have to ask yourself what your purpose or desire is with the people with whom you are interacting. Are you trying to make them more tolerant? Join a group? Gain acceptance? Just be who you are with no compromises, no matter the result? I pick and choose my battles, and seek balance between being true to my sense of self and honoring others' expectations in certain situations. If I'm headed to a rock concert or movie, I dress completely as I please. If I'm headed to church or a lecture, I compromise. If I'm in a gothic-attire mood and headed to work, it doesn't mean I have to completely ignore my own sense of style that day, but it does mean that if I want to be effective in my goals for the day, I'll have to seek balance. Same goes for church or meeting up with conservative friends. If you're into one of the more "edgy" styles, it's handy to come up with compromises that you like and you feel represent you but are socially acceptable in those circumstances. I have a lot of nice black business suits and longer dresses that work great for work or church on days I feel a bit gothic. They're "me" and yet they're classy and appropriate to the social situation.

I've had a lot of people tell me they learn to be more tolerant because through knowing me first, through being comfortable enough to talk at length with me, they come to find a relatively complex individual, whose "inside" doesn't necessarily conform to their assumptions about the "outside." The process requires compromise on my part in order to lay a foundation for tolerance and mutual understanding, without losing my sense of self entirely to conformity.

 

[lunamoth]

How can I resist the temptation to post in this thread when all my fav people are here (great to see you back, Path ).

I think people should dress however they want for church or for whatever else, but also if one chooses "in your face" attire or very revealing/sexy clothes, well, be prepared that people are going to react to that. What you choose to wear is sending a message and not always the one you intend. Regardless, I don't see how goth attire could send the message "I need to be saved!" Those folks are out of line making that assumption. In fact, I can't think of any clothing that reflects one's true degree of spirituality, including monk's robes.

I've worn pretty much the same simple types of clothes since college. I keep checking with my hub and my mom to make sure I can still get away with it. I rarely wear a shirt other than a simple tee, no logos, no slogans, no cartoon pictures. Plain tees, no collar. Can't stand the way a collar looks on myself. Shorts and sandals in the summer, jeans and sneakers in the winter, lots of black and white. Very simple. My hub is lucky--I'm pretty inexpensive in my tastes. I have always had jobs in laboratories where everyone dressed as students, and as a stay home mom my uniform still works fine. Have never been able to get the hang of doing work in a dress or suit.

But, I like to dress up (for me) for church and will wear a dress or skirt, maybe some pants and a sweater in cold weather. Some at my church dress very casual, some dress as if they are going to a night club, but on average people are dressed at least "neat." Some serious goth attire would be an interesting addition!

lunamoth

 

[InLove]

what? what next. ash trays & cup holders for the beer cans attached to the back of the pews. i can see it...the preacher in flip flops.
InLove, do you really wear halter tops to church? i cant believe that for a minute.
most of the women at my church really get into dressing up...like really nice dresses & shoes. i think it is refreshing.
i wear jeans & cowboy boots to church sometimes. i really do not like putting on a suit.
there is a guy that has been traveling around the world who wears a robe like jesus & he literally walks from town to town & he does not even own shoes or sandals. some churches take him in & let him preach for an offering. the muslims loved him (or so the article said). last place was alabama. my mom was going to go visit him, but she thinks it is more like a scam.

Hey, Bandit--nice to hear from you--now, of course, you must know that I do not go to my church in halters and cutoffs. But I'll bet you also know that He hears me, no matter how I am dressed. He knows me inside and out.

So what do you think about this guy that is travelling all over the world, owning no shoes or sandals? People taking him in to preach? Who is he?

What article, my friend? I think your mom may be right. I know that the world missed Him the first time, and we are told that the world will miss Him the second time, except for those who know Him.

We aren't going to miss Him, are we? We are not going to go looking here and there for Him when we already know where He is?

I love you, brother--nice to hear from you.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[InLove]

Hey, Y'all--Peace

Thanks to everyone here for your posts, and for the original question. The door of my heart is open. Ask my husband. And I am not ashamed in front of my God. Just ask Him. I am more comfortable with Him than anything else.

Why ash trays and beer cans? Did I say that? Not that God doesn't understand these things--but I do not understand why what I said made you think that way.

No, maybe not in buildings where sincere people worship Him. But maybe the people who go there to do so understand that we should not judge those beer cans and ash trays....

InPeace,
InLove

 

[InLove]

Knock, knock...

Who's there?

No answer...

Knock, knock, knock...

A woman answers the door...wearing a halter top and cutoffs.

What happens next?

Signed "Jezebel"

 

[InLove]

Hi, and Peace to All Here--

Maybe this can be a lesson--Democratic Indecision (one of those screen names that is hard to abbreviate--so many possibilities)

See what just happened? We aren't "in church", but here we are talking about it. I guess I showed up in cutoffs and a halter top. That apparently makes me Jezebel.

But I am not. God knows.

Anyway--see my point? Sometimes we need to not say certain things or perhaps back off on dressing a certain way for the sake of others??

<Sigh>

InPeace,
InLove