Evil? let us try Misjudged

i think you are immature to think that the world does not judge based on looks. if you look a certain way, people will think you need to be saved, if you look a certain way, cops will pull you over, if you look a certain way, you will not get that job. if you feel it is important to look the way you do, then only time will change you when you realize that its time to set aside certain things.
 
Hi, and Peace to all here,

Once upon a time in my real life, I went to be "counseled" by the "wise man" who would marry me to my now deceased husband (and the loving father of my youngest daughter, who is now the loving mother of his grandson).

(I am remarried now--does everyone think that is okay:rolleyes:. Ask me if I give a nickel....)

Anyway, both me and my fiancee were barbers. We were not attending any church at the moment, even though we both were brought up to love the Lord. I will not go into detail about how we settled on a church, but it was a pretty darned good compromise.

But before we made this compromise, we wanted to get married. And so, my fiancee had a client--a minister who just happened to know us both, because we both cut his hair, and he knew we had feelings for him, because he had recently experienced "losing" his wife, the mother of his three boys. And he knew we cared about him and his family.

It was a nice life--we had a beautiful daughter--he went to be with the Lord when she was nine years old. I am glad someone was willing to marry us. But to this day, I cannot figure out something that this minister said to me during the counseling sessions. I was a young, and I guess pretty, woman--and he just kept bringing attention to my red lipstick and fingernails--I never told my fiancee how uncomfortable that made me.

I do not really know what this has to do with the conversation at hand...but in some way or the other, I just feel like it is relevent. Anyone know why? Why was this important to this man--??

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
Hi, and Peace to all here,

Once upon a time in my real life, I went to be "counseled" by the "wise man" who would marry me to my now deceased husband (and the loving father of my youngest daughter, who is now the loving mother of his grandson).

(I am remarried now--does everyone think that is okay:rolleyes:. Ask me if I give a nickel....)

Anyway, both me and my fiancee were barbers. We were not attending any church at the moment, even though we both were brought up to love the Lord. I will not go into detail about how we settled on a church, but it was a pretty darned good compromise.

But before we made this compromise, we wanted to get married. And so, my fiancee had a client--a minister who just happened to know us both, because we both cut his hair, and he knew we had feelings for him, because he had recently experienced "losing" his wife, the mother of his three boys. And he knew we cared about him and his family.

It was a nice life--we had a beautiful daughter--he went to be with the Lord when she was nine years old. I am glad someone was willing to marry us. But to this day, I cannot figure out something that this minister said to me during the counseling sessions. I was a young, and I guess pretty, woman--and he just kept bringing attention to my red lipstick and fingernails--I never told my fiancee how uncomfortable that made me.

I do not really know what this has to do with the conversation at hand...but in some way or the other, I just feel like it is relevent. Anyone know why? Why was this important to this man--??

InPeace,
InLove
Click to expand...

Perhaps he was pointing out something that you were doing, namely bringing attention to attributes you probably already have in abundance. In other words, your use of paint, caused people to focus on those parts of you, rather than on you as a whole.

I once met a woman, who wore the brightest lipstick I've ever seen. She didn't need it, but none the less she wore it. Through out our conversation, she became more and more agitated with me.

Finally I said, "What is wrong with you?".

She said "I'm a person, not a mouth to be stared at".

Shocked at her vehement outrage and the truth of her words I murmured the first thing on my mind, "Then stop advertising..."

Just a thought.

v/r

Q
 
Yes, I understand your point, Q. As a matter of fact, I noticed that my words about halters and cutoffs (even though I never said I wore them to church or had any intention of doing so) appear to have seriously detracted from what I first said, which was, for the record:

InLove said:
Glad you and Juan brought this up. Ever since I posted the last time about the kids in my class, I've been thinking that I needed to say something else.

Sometimes we do need to give in a little bit. I don't always work with children in my church. Sometimes I am part of an ensemble, sometimes I minister through music solo. Sometimes I fill in for different musicians. And before I started being in the Children's Church every Sunday, I sang in the choir.

Not just at this church, either--another church of a different denomination. Over the years, I have learned that even though I would prefer to dress a certain way (I won't go into it all right now), I am better able to minister when I make sure that what I choose to wear does show a measure of respect for the people who are there to hear me. Modesty does have a place when worshipping within the Body of Christ. This doesn't mean you have to dress like you work at IBM in the sixties! You can be creative. I think the idea is to be sincere in bringing the attention to God, and not ourselves for any selfish purpose. If you can truly say that you are not detracting from the message, then dress however you feel.

When we choose to love others, then we often do find ourselves giving up part of ourselves for their sakes. Just don't lose yourself for any other reason than Love--when you act in Love, it is your real self that God created anyway--
Click to expand...

So, Democratic Indecision, here on this thread you have the perfect example of how the way we present ourselves can call attention to us instead of the message that someone (even ourselves) is trying to get across.

Peace and Love to all--gotta go get dressed on this lovely Sunday morning. :)
 
Hey, all-

I think it is perfectly acceptable to wear whatever one wants, but as lunamoth says, you have to be willing to accept what others' perceptions will be. Doesn't mean you can't try to change those stereotypes, but you have to accept facing them.

Q's story about the lipstick really brings that home.

The thing is, people are not trying to be cruel, or rude, or anything like that. It is completely natural for people to categorize things, including other people, to make assumptions and rules of thumb based on these categories. It's just how our brains work. We can learn to be tolerant, more open-minded, and catch ourselves when we begin to form stereotypes, but it's something people have to learn. We can't expect others to do it automatically. There are good reasons that people's brains work the way they do, categorizing things and making generalizations. It's a process that serves us well in a number of capacities. It just isn't very helpful for interpersonal communication in this complex day and age.

Furthermore, there is an entirely other layer to this that Q and InLove brought up- the gender issue and sexuality. Dressing counter-cultural in some way is not the same as dressing up one's sex-appeal, or calling attention to a particular region of the body, such as lips through bright lipstick. Personally, I have no problem with sexy attire, if it is in an appropriate context (for me, not at work, church, or other places where modesty is imperative- weddings, etc.). But I have to accept that if I wear bright red lipstick, people will focus on my lips. If I wear a mini-skirt, that's going to draw attention to my legs. Such clothing is distracting to people. I can't expect to have my cake and eat it too- to wear bright lipstick and polish, or revealing clothing, and then expect people to still look me square in the eye and focus on what I'm saying. In fact, I think it's a bit ridiculuous to get angry when people are distracted under such circumstances. After all, if you draw attention to yourself in those ways, that is your goal, right? I know I'm pretty logical that way- if I put on red lipstick, I expect people to be looking at that. I'm drawing attention to myself in that way purposefully. Why would I expect any other reaction?

As for the goth attire, I'm never very extreme in my style. Partially because although I find Victorian, Colonial, and Medieval fashion, for example, gorgeous- it is uncomfortable, elaborate, and expensive. And I hate heavy makeup. I think just a hint of dark eyes, or red lips and pale eyes, is more than enough and even that is over the top for church. After all, church isn't about me. It's about God. If I'm distracting people, I'm distracting them from worship and the focus they should have. So it's appropriate under such circumstances to ditch the corset and lace and go with a long, black cotten dress and sweater set if I'm feeling gothic that day. It's not just about others perceptions, but also the distraction factor. There are contexts where I want to encourage others to focus on something else- on learning (at work) or on God (at church)- and not on me and my attire. Finally, I do think there is an assumption on many people's parts that goth people need salvation because they're often seen as dark, depressed people. I know when I go to our local market night, I get handed more "Get Saved" fliers if I'm dressed in gothic attire (which is still on the more subtle end, mind you) than when I'm in a yellow sundress and sandals. Personally, I just don't mind it. I just tell people- thanks for the thought, I have a relationship with God- politely and friendly. Though their stereotyping may be slightly annoying, their intentions are good, and it's much easier to get people to think through love than through frustration.
 
:) :) :) :) :)

Oh--I just could not wait to get home and tell you guys what happened this morning in Children's Church! It really brought the conversation we have been having here to my mind.

I noticed this morning that one of the seven-year-old girls just seemed to have grown taller since I saw her last. I said, "Wow, Lauren--you are getting so tall!". She said, "It is my new shoes--they have a heel." I said, "Oh, how pretty." She said, "Yeah, but I want to take them off."

me: Why? Do they hurt your feet?

Lauren: No, but I cannot play basketball in them (we shoot hoops before class sometimes).

me: Oh, well--it is probably okay to take them off while you are playing ball.

Lauren: My mom will get mad at me because I will get my socks dirty, and I don't want to go barefoot.

So, I went to the closet in the gym where we keep the kid's costumes and found a pair of bunny slippers. Lauren's eyes lit up when she saw me bring them out. She started to giggle.

Lauren: Ms. Debbie?

me: Yes, Lauren?

Lauren: Do you think that God cares if I wear bunny slippers at church?

me: No, sweetie, not today.

:) :) :) :) :)
 
LOL ;) wish I could be so articulate. Man's grunts are a woman's bain, and a woman's speech is a man's labrynth.

And no, I can't walk and chew gum at the same time...:D

v/r

Q
 
InLove said:
:) :) :) :) :)

Oh--I just could not wait to get home and tell you guys what happened this morning in Children's Church! It really brought the conversation we have been having here to my mind.

I noticed this morning that one of the seven-year-old girls just seemed to have grown taller since I saw her last. I said, "Wow, Lauren--you are getting so tall!". She said, "It is my new shoes--they have a heel." I said, "Oh, how pretty." She said, "Yeah, but I want to take them off."

me: Why? Do they hurt your feet?

Lauren: No, but I cannot play basketball in them (we shoot hoops before class sometimes).

me: Oh, well--it is probably okay to take them off while you are playing ball.

Lauren: My mom will get mad at me because I will get my socks dirty, and I don't want to go barefoot.

So, I went to the closet in the gym where we keep the kid's costumes and found a pair of bunny slippers. Lauren's eyes lit up when she saw me bring them out. She started to giggle.

Lauren: Ms. Debbie?

me: Yes, Lauren?

Lauren: Do you think that God cares if I wear bunny slippers at church?

me: No, sweetie, not today.

:) :) :) :) :)
Click to expand...

Hard to beat the honesty of a child, eh?

v/r

Q
 
DemocraticIndecision said:
This post is not a post on christianity as a whole but more of observations of the christian people people falling into the category also are catholics, born agains, baptists, all denominations. haha ok here we go "ENGAGE". I am ye blessed metal head the whole 9 yards too. All black, combat boots, long hair,chains everywhere, disgusting t-shirts but its me and I am happy!!!! I am not depressed and I enjoy what I turned out to be. But yet everytime ive ever walked into a church or met a christian they feel the need to "save me" man this is exactly what I was telling someone about I AM SAVED and I love god and jesus christ. I dont need anyones special prayers or love because I know where my faith is and it is with god. so why is it these people either think im ABSOLUTE EVIL, THE DEVIL, or think THIS GUY NEEDS SAVED BECAUSE HE IS DIFFERENT. It goes something like this I am not an angry guy I am generally happy but when people approach me like that it makes me mad and upset.
any opinions to my conundrum?
Click to expand...

This is because man tends to look on the outward appearance. Man still does not understand that evil can exist in a three piece suit.
 
DemocraticIndecision said:
I am happy!!!!
any opinions to my conundrum?
Click to expand...

Hi DemocraticIndecision,

And thats all that matters!!!!

People will always have an opinion about you good and bad. Perhaps they even believe you need saving. As long as your relationship with Jesus and God is on track I wouldnt worry too much.

Kelcie:)
 
thank you and just recently I must say I approached the father of my old church in public and he said "what a nice shirt" making a joke on my Hate Eternal "I Monarch" shirt and all I thought was wow even father, priests can be close minded. and walked away
 
DemocraticIndecision said:
thank you and just recently I must say I approached the father of my old church in public and he said "what a nice shirt" making a joke on my Hate Eternal "I Monarch" shirt and all I thought was wow even father, priests can be close minded. and walked away
Click to expand...

And maybe he was looking past the shirt...doors close both ways. ;)

v/r

Q
 
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