the Bible from a Jehovah's Witness perspective

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BlaznFattyz

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aburaees said:
The angel Michael, who's name means "Who is like God", is someone we should be comparing to God then?
no, he is only an angel in the presence of god, not to be worshipped... the presence being god the father and the lamb on the throne who are to be worshipped.
 

Dondi

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Faithfulservant said:
Umm The angel Michael told Mary to name the baby Immanuel which means
"God with us" or "With us is God" I think its very interesting that your definition of Christ left out that very important bit of information.

Not that you will even read a word of what I posted...

Im really trying to take Pauls advice.


This is not quite correct. The angel Gabriel told Mary that His name will be Jesus (in both Matthew and Luke). The mention of Immanuel made after the same angel told Joseph His name is Jesus and that is when Matthew's explanation of a fulfilled prophesy from Isaiah 7:14 appears.

But when you look at the passage in Isaiah 7 in context, Immanuel is given to the name of a child as a sign to the Lord gives to Ahaz as a sign of judgement for Assyria and Ephraim. And that before this child comes of age, the land will be forsaken by both kings.

So then, by that logic, shouldn't the child referred to in Isaiah 7 be considered as "God with us", also?
 

Dor

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Dondi said:
So then, by that logic, shouldn't the child referred to in Isaiah 7 be considered as "God with us", also?
Of course since it is considered(by most christians) as a messianic phophesy. But we have been down this road before haven't we.:)
 

Dondi

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Dor said:
Of course since it is considered(by most christians) as a messianic phophesy. But we have been down this road before haven't we.:)

So you are talking about the child in Isaiah's time, then, huh?
 

pattimax

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moseslmpg said:
I thought his name was Yaheshua or Joshua back then, not Jesus. The Immanuel doesn't prove much either.
Not quite sure what you mean...
IMMANUEL (Im man' ew ehl) Personal name meaning, "God with us." Name of son to be born in Isaiah’s prophecy to King Ahaz (Isa. 7:14) and fulfilled in birth of Jesus (Matt. 1:22-23).--Holman Bible Dictionary
 

mee

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This identity of Jesus Christ as Immanuel did not mean he was the incarnation of God, ‘God in the flesh,’ which proponents of the Trinity teaching claim is implied by the meaning of Immanuel, namely, "With Us Is God." It was a common practice among Jews to embody the word "God," even "Jehovah," in Hebrew names. Even today Immanuel is the proper name of many men; none of whom are incarnations of God.
If there seems to be a conflict between the angel’s instructions to Mary ("you are to call his name Jesus") and Isaiah’s prophecy ("she will certainly call his name Immanuel"), let it be remembered that Messiah was also to be called by yet other names. (Lu 1:31; Isa 7:14) For example, Isaiah 9:6 said concerning this one: "His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." Yet none of these names were given to Mary’s firstborn as personal names, neither when he was a babe nor after he took up his ministry. Rather, they were all prophetic title-names by which Messiah would be identified. Jesus lived up to the meaning of these names in every respect, and that is the sense in which they were prophetically given, to show his qualities and the good offices he would perform toward all those accepting him as Messiah. So also with his title Immanuel. He measured up to and fulfilled its meaning.
 

BlaznFattyz

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Dor said:
Which Watchtower publication did that get copy and pasted from?
there seems to be a preoccupation with denying the divinity of christ in many ways.
 

Dor

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BlaznFattyz said:
there seems to be a preoccupation with denying the divinity of christ in many ways.
Yep some heretical beliefs never change this one date back to Arius. Was one primary reason for the First Council of Nicea.
 

Quahom1

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mee said:
This identity of Jesus Christ as Immanuel did not mean he was the incarnation of God, ‘God in the flesh,’ which proponents of the Trinity teaching claim is implied by the meaning of Immanuel, namely, "With Us Is God." It was a common practice among Jews to embody the word "God," even "Jehovah," in Hebrew names. Even today Immanuel is the proper name of many men; none of whom are incarnations of God.
If there seems to be a conflict between the angel’s instructions to Mary ("you are to call his name Jesus") and Isaiah’s prophecy ("she will certainly call his name Immanuel"), let it be remembered that Messiah was also to be called by yet other names. (Lu 1:31; Isa 7:14) For example, Isaiah 9:6 said concerning this one: "His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace." Yet none of these names were given to Mary’s firstborn as personal names, neither when he was a babe nor after he took up his ministry. Rather, they were all prophetic title-names by which Messiah would be identified. Jesus lived up to the meaning of these names in every respect, and that is the sense in which they were prophetically given, to show his qualities and the good offices he would perform toward all those accepting him as Messiah. So also with his title Immanuel. He measured up to and fulfilled its meaning.

Jesus is God:

Let's compare the Old and New Testaments concerning testimony to Jesus' identity as Yahweh (God Almighty). Isaiah 43:11 for example states that only God is Savior, yet Titus 2:13-14 calls Jesus Savior. Isaiah 44: 24 indicates that only God is Creator yet John 1;3 and Colossians 1:16 call Jesus Creator.

God's glory Isaiah 6:1-5 equates with Jesus' glory in John 12:41.

The Divine names like Yahweh and Elohim (Isaiah 40:3) are also applied to Jesus (Mark 1: 24)

Yahweh gives and preserves life (Psalm 119:25, 37, 40, 50,88,93, 107, 149, 154, 156, 159). Jesus gives and preserves life (John 5:21).

Yahweh's voice is like the roar of rushing waters (Ezekiel 43:2). The glorified Jesus is also (Revelation 1:15).

Only God is worshipped (Exodus 34:14). Jesus is worshipped (Matt 2:11, 8:2, 9:18, 15:25, 28:9, John 9:38, Hebrews 1:6).

Not only that, Jesus received and condoned the worship of Himself, which presents compelling evidence as to His true identity. Apparently the authors of the Old and New Testament understood quite clearly that God is the embodement of the meanings of the names, and so is Jesus.

God is a Trinity:

Now the arguement is that there is no trinity, and that God is one. However, the Bible provides three points of evidence that supports That God is one, but the unity of the Godhead is three co-equal and co-eternal persons...that is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, equal in divine nature but distinct in personhood.

1. Only one true God exists (Isaiah 44:6, 46:9, John 5:44, 17:3, Romans 3:29-30, 16:27, 1Corinthians 8:4, Galations 3:20, Ephesians 4:6, 1Timothy 2:5, and James 2:19).

2. Three persons are God - The Father (1Peter 1:2), The Son (Hebrews 1:8), and The Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4).

3. The Godhead has three-in-Oneness (Matt 28:19, where Father, Son and Holy Spirit are under a singular name of God), and (Corinthians 13:14).

The trouble here Mee, is that you are attempting to use "Reason" to argue the True Identity of Jesus, and the validity of the Trinity, while I use facts as noted in scripture (both Old, compared with New Testament passages), side by side. I let the authors' words speak for themselves, instead of my own reasoning. By doing this I exclude the potential for possible misinterpretation on my own part.
 

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Quahom1 said:
Jesus is God:

Let's compare the Old and New Testaments concerning testimony to Jesus' identity as Yahweh (God Almighty). Isaiah 43:11 for example states that only God is Savior, yet Titus 2:13-14 calls Jesus Savior. Isaiah 44: 24 indicates that only God is Creator yet John 1;3 and Colossians 1:16 call Jesus Creator.

quote]yes ,its only because of Jehovah that he sent his son to earth and we can gain everlasting life through his son Jesus christ. there is no other saviour that can do that . and the power for all the creation comes from the Almighty Jehovah God ,through his son Jesus christ . yes Jesus plays a very big part in Jehovahs purpose ,there is no one else .
 

Quahom1

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mee said:
Quahom1 said:
Jesus is God:

Let's compare the Old and New Testaments concerning testimony to Jesus' identity as Yahweh (God Almighty). Isaiah 43:11 for example states that only God is Savior, yet Titus 2:13-14 calls Jesus Savior. Isaiah 44: 24 indicates that only God is Creator yet John 1;3 and Colossians 1:16 call Jesus Creator.

quote]yes ,its only because of Jehovah that he sent his son to earth and we can gain everlasting life through his son Jesus christ. there is no other saviour that can do that . and the power for all the creation comes from the Almighty Jehovah God ,through his son Jesus christ . yes Jesus plays a very big part in Jehovahs purpose ,there is no one else .

Unfortunately, there is a slight problem. jehovah is God (you say). Scripture apparently concurrs that Jesus is God as well. Hence Jehovah is Jesus. And the term "Jehovah" is no where in the bible, so you must be referring to Yahweh, which is another specific identifier for Jesus, according to scripture. If not, then I don't know who Jehovah is identifying, but clearly the name does not exist in the original scriptures (not by that spelling anyway).

Is Jehovah the Father to you? If so, then it is a substitute for Yahweh (Anglicanised version of a Hebrew Abbreviation or word with no vowels), which identifies both Father and Son, as one and the same. (I didn't make this up Mee). I just read all the Scripture that indeed identifies Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

And both are Called Yahweh, as is the Holy Spirit.

edit: I do not doubt your belief, at all. I do have to contend with what scripture says, and it appears there is a conflict here (not between you and me, but between what you tell me, and what scripture points out).
 

mee

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Quahom1 said:
mee said:
Unfortunately, there is a slight problem. jehovah is God (you say). Scripture apparently concurrs that Jesus is God as well. Hence Jehovah is Jesus. And the term "Jehovah" is no where in the bible, so you must be referring to Yahweh, which is another specific identifier for Jesus, according to scripture. If not, then I don't know who Jehovah is identifying, but clearly the name does not exist in the original scriptures (not by that spelling anyway).

Is Jehovah the Father to you? If so, then it is a substitute for Yahweh (Anglicanised version of a Hebrew Abbreviation or word with no vowels), which identifies both Father and Son, as one and the same. (I didn't make this up Mee). I just read all the Scripture that indeed identifies Father and Son and Holy Spirit.

And both are Called Yahweh, as is the Holy Spirit.

edit: I do not doubt your belief, at all. I do have to contend with what scripture says, and it appears there is a conflict here (not between you and me, but between what you tell me, and what scripture points out).
yes the scriptures alway harmonize when the accurate understanding is applied.Jesus really is Gods son as he himself said.
 

mee

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As this is a JW thread i hope it is allowed to put this link up, i thought it was good ,but if you dont know sign language it wont make much sense anyway . it is about BABYLON THE GREAT so who knows sign language? take a look
 

Quahom1

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mee said:
Mee said:
yes the scriptures alway harmonize when the accurate understanding is applied.Jesus really is Gods son as he himself said.

Actually, the Scripture I set up in comparrison shows Jesus as God...as He said. Again, I didn't interpret anything. I just showed comparrison.
 
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