Name of God

Mee

If the name of God is such an important matter to you why do you give a wrong name to God ?

When you read English you know that many words aren't pronounced as they are written. For example in "written" you don't pronounce the "w", but you pronounce it in "word".

In the Hebrew Bible the spelling corresponds to the pronunciation, except for the name of God.

The massoretes, when they added the short vowels to all the words of the OT (which was unvoweled as modern Hebrew and Arabic is), didn't give the right vowels to Yhwh because it mustn't be pronounced according to their belief.
They added the vowels of Adonay or Elohim instead to signal to the readers that they had to switch to those replacement names.

European scholars in the Middle-Ages didn't know that as they thought Yhwh in the Hebrew Bible had its own vowels.
Hence the wrong pronunciation "Yehovah". The Latin alphabet at that time pronounced the "J" as a "Y".
 
mansio said:
Mee

If the name of God is such an important matter to you why do you give a wrong name to God ?

When you read English you know that many words aren't pronounced as they are written. For example in "written" you don't pronounce the "w", but you pronounce it in "word".

In the Hebrew Bible the spelling corresponds to the pronunciation, except for the name of God.

The massoretes, when they added the short vowels to all the words of the OT (which was unvoweled as modern Hebrew and Arabic is), didn't give the right vowels to Yhwh because it mustn't be pronounced according to their belief.
They added the vowels of Adonay or Elohim instead to signal to the readers that they had to switch to those replacement names.

European scholars in the Middle-Ages didn't know that as they thought Yhwh in the Hebrew Bible had its own vowels.
Hence the wrong pronunciation "Yehovah". The Latin alphabet at that time pronounced the "J" as a "Y".[/QUOTE its because the name of God is important that i do not try to hide that name, the Jews very early on allowed a superstition to hide the name , just because others are led along to do that does not mean that we are all led along the wrong path to do that .Jehovah will always have a people for his name even if others obscure the name .just as i do not say yeshua but in english i say Jesus ,
Yeshua (or perhaps Yehoshua). It certainly was not Jesus.

it is the same with Gods name in english it is Jehovah
Must we stop using the name of Jesus because most of us, or even all of us, do not really know its original pronunciation? So far, no translator has suggested this. We like to use the name, for it identifies the beloved Son of God, Jesus Christ, who gave his lifeblood for us. Would it be showing honor to Jesus to remove all mention of his name in the Bible and replace it with a mere title like "Teacher," or "Mediator"? Of course not! We can relate to Jesus when we use his name the way it is commonly pronounced in our language.​

Similar comments could be made regarding all the names we read in the Bible. We pronounce them in our own language and do not try to imitate the original pronunciation. so we say "Jeremiah," not Yir·meya´hu. Similarly we say Isaiah, although in his own day this prophet likely was known as Yesha`·ya´hu. Even scholars who are aware of the original pronunciation of these names use the modern pronunciation, not the ancient, when speaking about them.

And the same is true with the name Jehovah. Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally, this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. It identifies the Creator, the living God, the Most High to whom Jesus said: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified."—Matthew 6:9.
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Mee

In Exodus 20:7 is written :"Do not take the name of Yhwh your Lord in vain".

How can you consider it a superstition to abide by that commandment ?
Your use of your name of God could also be deemed a superstition, and anyone obeying God's commandments would be superstitious.

I agree with you that the name Jehovah, although unexact, has been established by English religious and literary tradition.
How about the other languages then ? If every language is supposed to follow its own literary tradition (if it has any) then God will have as different names as they are different languages.
 
although there is a true name of god that was given to moses, i believe we have a our best guess of YHWH and its translations. but the name of god is more than saying father, or god, or jehova--all different languages but on the same page, not so. it is the connotations behind the name. in christianity; god, jesus christ, and the holy spirit are one.
 
mansio said:
Mee

In Exodus 20:7 is written :"Do not take the name of Yhwh your Lord in vain".

How can you consider it a superstition to abide by that commandment ?
Your use of your name of God could also be deemed a superstition, and anyone obeying God's commandments would be superstitious.

I agree with you that the name Jehovah, although unexact, has been established by English religious and literary tradition.
How about the other languages then ? If every language is supposed to follow its own literary tradition (if it has any) then God will have as different names as they are different languages.
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Actually, the Name of God "YHWH", was never meant to be spoken at all. Yet we justify breaking the law of God's private name, just like we break everyother rule...to suit our personal desires...

v/r

Q
 
mansio said:
Mee

In Exodus 20:7 is written :"Do not take the name of Yhwh your Lord in vain".

How can you consider it a superstition to abide by that commandment ?
Your use of your name of God could also be deemed a superstition, and anyone obeying God's commandments would be superstitious.

I agree with you that the name Jehovah, although unexact, has been established by English religious and literary tradition.
How about the other languages then ? If every language is supposed to follow its own literary tradition (if it has any) then God will have as different names as they are different languages.
Click to expand...
its a superstition to imbrodier the scriptures , no where in the whole of the bible does it tell us to hide and keep the name from being know, Exodus 20;7 is not saying that at all
You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way,(or to a falsehood, or in vain) for Jehovah will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way.......Exodus 20;7

(Leviticus 19:12) And YOU must not swear in my name to a lie, so that you do profane the name of your God. I am Jehovah....... no Exodus 20 ;7 is not telling us to not use the name ,how can it be ,when the bible is full of verses telling us to make it known , no i would rather listen to God himself in the bible than to false teachers.unless you think that the words in the bible are a superstition​

And in that day you will certainly say: "Give thanks to Jehovah,you people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high. ..Isaiah12;4

God’s name identifies him as the One who progressively fulfills his promises and unfailingly realizes his purposes. Only the true God could bear such a meaningful name

The name is a form of a Hebrew verb ha·wah´ meaning "to become," and actually signifies "He Causes to Become....... yes Jesus followers should do the same as Jesus did

"I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. John 17;6 ......yes Jesus made manifest Gods name and so should we

And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them....John17;26











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Quahom1 said:
Actually, the Name of God "YHWH", was never meant to be spoken at all. Yet we justify breaking the law of God's private name, just like we break everyother rule...to suit our personal desires...

v/r

Q
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we do not break Gods rules by applying what he tells us to do in the bible. he tells us to make his name known, it is only false teachers who say other wise, its amazing how a superstition about not using Gods name can affect the whole world ,but then again the bible does say that the whole world is in the power of the wicked one 1 john 5;19(satan the devil) and satans aim is to be in opposition to God ,so it is to be expected .it is only those who listen to God that are not led along
 
Jesus always mentioned the Father instead of the name God, or am I wrong?
What is Jesus' definition of God?
Christianity is rather complicated to an outsider as one never knows exactly of whom a Christian is talking about or praying at.
Is it God, the Father, Jesus as part of God, Jesus as himself ? And I'm not mentioning the Holy Spirit.
No wonder that Muslims keep saying Christianity is a polytheism in disguise.
 
mansio said:
Jesus always mentioned the Father instead of the name God, or am I wrong?
What is Jesus' definition of God?
Christianity is rather complicated to an outsider as one never knows exactly of whom a Christian is talking about or praying at.
Is it God, the Father, Jesus as part of God, Jesus as himself ? And I'm not mentioning the Holy Spirit.
No wonder that Muslims keep saying Christianity is a polytheism in disguise.
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if we keep to the bible it informs us who is who
A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear.

The personal name of the only true God. His own self-designation. Jehovah is the Creator and, rightfully, the Sovereign Ruler of the universe. "Jehovah" is translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, יהוה, which means "He Causes to Become." These four Hebrew letters are represented in many languages by the letters JHVH or YHWH

Jesus isthe only-begotten Son of God, the only Son produced by Jehovah alone. This Son is the firstborn of all creation. By means of him all other things in heaven and on earth were created. He is the second-greatest personage in the universe. It is this Son whom Jehovah sent to the earth to give his life as a ransom for mankind, thus opening the way to eternal life for those of Adam’s offspring who would exercise faith. This same Son, restored to heavenly glory, now rules as King, with authority to destroy all the wicked and to carry out his Father’s original purpose for the earth. The Hebrew form of the name Jesus means "Jehovah Is Salvation"; Christ is the equivalent of the Hebrew Ma·shi´ach (Messiah), meaning "Anointed One

 
Hi Mansio

Your quote:

If the name of God is such an important matter to you why do you give a wrong name to God ?




It’s not the wrong name. It’s the proper anglicized transliteration of YHWH from the Germanic rendering of the name. The name of the true God as the tri-syllable Jehovah is rendered by the same correct means as any other tri or quad-syllabic name found in the scriptures, especially so, ones with the original first letters YH of the tetragramatton such as Jonathan or Jehonadab...... A common means when translating Hebrew to English, entering triple or quadruple vowels within the known consonants. A certain amount is known about Hebrew, and the tri-syllable names were never transliterated as bi-syllable (e.g Yahweh.)

Vowel points were put in, based on adonai, but this does not deflect from the tri-syllabic understanding of all names that had the actual first part of the name of God in them. YH e.g. Jehoiakim (literally YEHOYAQIM) and Jehovah (YHWH ) included. The name Jehovah is about the best English rendering that we are going to get, without having to change all of the other biblical names.





God confused the languages at Babel, and knew perfectly well that different variations on his name would obviously and naturally come about. Jehovah God created the variations of his own name, because he created the various languages. With this in mind, it illustrates that he will accept various transliterations of his name. He is a God of love and of order, if the scriptures use his name prolifically, He wanted it to be known, then by his love he would not be uncaring and obstinately deny us the different modern language (derived from ancient languages) usage of his name, if he created the variations in the first place.



The important thing is, that we use his name as requested by the one and only true God, no matter how it sounds to him, he recognises those that use the name from those that merely use a title such as God and especially so distinguishing it from man made false gods. The ‘lords’ prayer asks us to recognise and to make the name known ….. ‘ Hallowed be thy name’ amongst many other scriptures that imply that his name is to be used.





The scriptures are inundated with his name, the biblical characters use it all of the time. It is by the superstitious traditions of men that out of fear they stopped using his name. This came later in biblical history, Superstitions have always been rife throughout time, and it is no surprise that it will infiltrate even to the core of Gods inspired writings by attempting to obliterate the name of Jehovah God.

 
Mee, you say that Jesus "is the only Son produced by Jehovah alone".
The word "created" is avoided, but one can guess that "produced" means created.
So according to the JWs to whom you belong, God "the Father" has created a lesser God "the Son" aka Jesus. Dualism is a form of polytheism.

E99, you say that Jehovah is the anglicized transliteration of Yhwh.
As we talk about the name of God in the Bible, what in your opinion is the Hebrew transliteration of God's name ?
 
I've tried to follow this post ... and - even considering that it is on the Christian forum - I think I've missed something. Why does it matter in the least how one personally chooses to label the Infinite, Unconditioned Being?

This seems especially pointless to me when we ought to all know better, recognizing that G-d knows us as we are from within our own hearts. Our every thought, word and deed defines our character ... and surely no one is so foolish as to believe that vain repetitions (of any name) matter more than authenticity - living by the spirit of the Law, rather than by its letter!

Have I missed something? Or is it really back to "How many angels ..." (can dance on a pinhead)? :rolleyes:

If your response to all this is that somehow or another you think Jesus changed our relationship to G-d, then fine - but this makes not one bit of difference unless we have learned the lesson even more securely ... that G-d loves all his creatures, regardless of how (or whether) they choose to acknowledge him.

Dare we place a boundary on the unconditional Love and Compassion of the Divine? If so, then we haven't heard a word that Jesus is made to say - in the Gospels ... or that the Prophets are made to say in the Hebrew Old Testament.

Some may like to say, "Our Father Who art in Heaven" ... while others may prefer, "O Thou, beyond all human names & conceptions ..." But does either utterance change the reality of Deity - a being of inconceivable Will, boundless Love and Light supernal? I should hope not.

If this can be admitted, then everything else is but academic. We shall not likely discover the "true name(s) of G-d" until all of Humanity have indeed accepted our Oneness within the heart of Deity. We will need to recognize that every living Soul plays his or her part in the world drama. And as Alexander Pope expressed it, "All are but parts of one stupendous whole, Whose body Nature is, and God the Soul."
protokletos
​
 
taijasi said:
I've tried to follow this post ... and - even considering that it is on the Christian forum - I think I've missed something. Why does it matter in the least how one personally chooses to label the Infinite, Unconditioned Being?...

...Have I missed something? Or is it really back to "How many angels ..." (can dance on a pinhead)? :rolleyes:...


...If this can be admitted, then everything else is but academic. We shall not likely discover the "true name(s) of G-d" until all of Humanity have indeed accepted our Oneness within the heart of Deity. We will need to recognize that every living Soul plays his or her part in the world drama. And as Alexander Pope expressed it, "All are but parts of one stupendous whole, Whose body Nature is, and God the Soul."


protokletos


​
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Actually you are correct. The arguement is academic, until someone deliberately attempts to place a stumbling block in front of another, out of contempt. Then it becomes abusive.

You are also correct in that this is the Christian forum and as such, expressing personal faith based opinions are not only welcome, but encouraged, as well as questions. However, attempting to sabatoge another's belief is not acceptable. I will take care of that issue.

v/r

Q
 
Oh wow :)
 
I still think Yhwh was probably pronounced more like Yao, which we can see in theophoric names, but also in Greek transcriptions of how the ancient Jews pronounced the name as IAO.

At the same time, calling Yhwh "Jehovah" isn't that weird to me, because we already normalized calling Yeshua "Jesus."

Personally, I like the Pentagrammaton, "Yahshuah," as a symbolic name for God.
 
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