Thomas said:Hi Andrew -
Have you ever thought that perhaps ... and this is a distinct metaphysical possibility ... the man is the message?
Without a doubt, Christ is not divided. Only his followers (of whatever faith or tradition), sometimes amongst themselves, and sometimes - within themselves!seattlegal said:
Hmmm, this is where not all agree. Church Dogma certainly has a lot to say about it, but the Mystics, I find ... tend to agree with the notion of Elder among Brethren, which I believe is also a Biblical Teaching. Look it up!Thomas said:We are beings, according to that principle, but we are not the 'principle of being' as such, which alone is Jesus Christ - Son of the Father, or the Arche (Principle) of the Arche Anarchos (Principle without Principle).
Non-Christian (and not a few Christian) denominations insist that Christ is 'according to the principle' which makes him like us, as I am like you (but he's just better at it, you might say) .... but Scripture would seem to be adamant that Christ is not a saint, an avatar, a sage, a prophet, a teacher ... all of whom 'embody' the spirit of life to a greater or lesser degree ... but rather that Christ is the Incarnation of the Logos itself ...
wil said:The Jeffersonian Gospels are still in print today and available. Thomas Jefferson, Christian, founding father of the US, Author of the Declaration, Instrumental in the Constitution, 3rd President of the United States, part and parcel of In God we Trust...
He took out virgin birth, resurection, only begotten son....just the stuff we are discussing...
From my understanding the Gospel of John is pretty much determined not to be written by the apostle...(due to the style differences) and it is questioned whether he even supervised the writing (as it is dated around 100 AD) I read other notes questioning his faculties in his elder years...John, in his epistle, expresses that what the apostles spoke of was not myth, not metaphor, but an actual, physical reality.
I maintain, that Christianity could have existed without Jesus of Nazareth/QUOTE] In my mind if anthroplogists, archeaoligists, and historical discovery PROOVED Jesus never existed....It would have very little affect on my Christian beliefs, it would not tear any foundation out from under me, as as with Genesis, the value is in the allegory, the analogy, the understanding and lessons learned from the story...not any sort of historical accuracy that it revolves around.. As Andrew indicated Christianity concept was around prior to the stories or the man...
Taijasi said:I maintain, that Christianity could have existed without Jesus of Nazareth,
lol ... okay, okay, at least a caveat is in order ...lunamoth said:
wil said:As for Thomas Jefferson and his removing of items he thought were contradictory to Christianity...I had read he removed those items which were obviously copied from previous religions yet added for affect and mystery...
Stone Age animism (a naive, unquestioning belief/contact with universal spiritual forces) got diluted in the Bronze Age, as man became preoccupied with reorganizing the social order into more complex human relationships. The tedium of chore-based existence introduced sloth, laziness and deceit into the former innocent hunter/gatherer psyche. Shamans (gifted psychic adepts - ie former animists) were then required to mediate between guilty individuals and their ancetral spirits - who were then expected to take their prayers on to God. As clans evolved into powerful entities, each claimed exclusive rights to the ear of God - via the divinity of their original clan founder. So we warred our way into clan union via ruthless tyrants - into the Iron Age of nationalism, all believing in the Divine appointment of our kings. Seen from the roots up, everything in our religious scriptures (forged into rigid dogma to keep national unions intact) is simply an evolution of the common spiritual foundations of animism and shanism. Arguments over who is god and who's god is higher, without factoring in the primitive origins, leaves one stranded high up in the twisted branches of the family tree, trying to trace our way back down through a labyrinth of ethnic taboos, to our common roots. Why not just go directly to the root and start there? By the grace of the Gods I was fortunate to be born in Africa amd grew up among a faithful simple brotherhood who remained at mankind's ancetral home. while the prodigal protestant son went abroad to gambled with his inheritance. God knows that I am no scholar, and hopefully do not sound all-knowing, but I have found that Africa keeps my bearings while I am abroad, as I listen to all the endless snapping of twigs up above as former monkeys loose their innate grip on reality and grasp at fresh air.
Dondi said:You statements ring true, inhumility. That fairly represents what the CR board is all about, although I respect the opinion of athiests/agnostics if their disbelief is genuine and well thought out. You cannot make someone believe in God when such is difficult, if not impossible, to objectively prove. My hope in this forum concerns those who are dormant in their beliefs will be enlightened to possibilities and areas to be explored in search of the truth, whatever that may be. Moreover that their lives will be enhanced because of a renewed hope in the things unseen.
Hi!Dondi said:You statements ring true, inhumility. That fairly represents what the CR board is all about, although I respect the opinion of athiests/agnostics if their disbelief is genuine and well thought out. You cannot make someone believe in God when such is difficult, if not impossible, to objectively prove. My hope in this forum concerns those who are dormant in their beliefs will be enlightened to possibilities and areas to be explored in search of the truth, whatever that may be. Moreover that their lives will be enhanced because of a renewed hope in the things unseen.