Insight on the Writing of the Gospels

taijasi

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The author Geoffrey Hodson, who was a Messenger for the Angelic (Deva) Kingdom as well as for the (Human) Spiritual Brotherhood during the 20th Century, wrote dozens of books about the relationship between Humanity and the Divine. His life's work was one great act of Service, showing and teaching us how to bridge the gap between ourselves and G-d, as individuals, in groups, and as part of the Human Kingdom itself. The quote I'd like to share is from Light of the Sanctuary, his personal Diary, which was published posthumously for instructive and Service purposes. My recommendation, if anyone has further interest, would be to try and get ahold of The Hidden Wisdom in the Holy Bible series, of which at least four volumes exist (I have a couple of them).

The following is an entry from the 1960s, received from Geoffrey's Teacher (Master P, formerly Philo Judaeus) and transcribed by his wife, in which Geoffrey clairvoyantly observes (with expert training, guidance & direct inspiration) the Gospels being written:
A number of men, some of whom are bearded, are writing in a classroom, several at one table and others at their own desks, as it were. Each is responsible not only for putting the different parts of the original source together but also for bringing out, however symbolically, the occult and mystical meanings. This is done by so relating the various incidents in the life of Jesus that an interior, time-free and universal Truth is enunciated under the veil of allegory and symbol. Over them there is a Senior whom they acknowledge as a Sage and whose directions they unhesitatingly accept and follow.

These men are free, safe, and whilst working hard are not actually driven by any haste. As they write, they compare their work with each other and there are general discussions as to how the guidance of their leader may best be followed. He appears occasionally, looks over their shoulders, picks up a sheet or two of manuscript, reads it, comments, and suggests changes or additions.

The climate is hot; the ocean - presumably the Mediterranean - is visible, as also is a long curved quay, which reminds me of attempted restorations of the city of Alexandria. Ships are arriving at the port, some of them with graceful high poops, very high masts, and very high sails; some of them loaded with merchandise. Business must be very brisk at this time, for a dozen or more ships are tied up, whilst others, great and small, can be seen arriving and departing across the deep blue sea.

These men, Hebrews I think, live and work in an eastern part of the city and not very far from its outskirts where, apart from some palm trees and some irrigated fields, the desert begings. Here, quiet reigns in marked contrast to the very great activity - maritime and commerical - characteristic of the city itself, especially at and near the waterfront, where there are storage sheds and sailing-gear factories and repair shops. All this constitutes a veritable hive of industry, whilst further back there are very fine white buildings, civic and governmental, and an educational centre. I see many young and middle-aged men and women studiously engaged, some reading scrolls, some studying what looks like Euclid, and some making models of geometric forms and even mechanical machines. The impression is that this is one of the great centres at this time of world civilization and culture and, in a very private way, of occult study and some forms of the Mysteries.
Anyone interested in a bit of background, touching on the famed Library at Alexandria which is apparently described here, might consult this link. I watched Carl Sagan just the other night relating essentially this (taken from the page I just linked):
Ptolemy composed a letter "to all the sovereigns and governors on earth", imploring them "not to hesitate to send him" works by authors of every kind, including "poets and prose-writers, rhetoricians and sophists, doctors and soothsayers, historians, and all the others too". He gave orders that any books on board ships calling at Alexandria were to be copied, and only the copies returned to the owners. Eventually, the library is thought to have contained some six hundred to seven hundred thousand volumes [I have seen it said a million]. This massive collection of books and scrolls was not limited to Greek and Roman works. Oriental writings were translated into Greek and placed in the Library, as were ancient Egyptian texts, the Hebrew Scriptures and writing ascribed to the Persian prophet, Zoroaster. There were 123 plays by Sophocles and others by Aeschylus and Eurepides. It contained a history of the world from the time of the Biblical Flood written by Prossos, a Babylonian monk. Prossos dated the Flood to 433,000 years before his time.
[The number 432,000 will come up again & again in esoteric teachings, being quite familiar to Hindus as the length of Kali Yuga, and 1/10th the length of a Maha-Yuga (1x432 + 2x432 + 3x432 + 4x432 = 10x432 ... the Iron, Bronze, Silver & Golden Ages of the World combined).]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A meeting with Jesus himself is recounted later in Geoffrey's entries, and is corroborated by Mary, the mother of Jesus, who speaks as the `Mother of the World,' which is a Devic (Angelic) position ... in the esoteric Brotherhood.

Nothing here, in Geoffrey's account, seems the least bit surprising or shocking to me, but then, I'm sure there are those who would like to believe that somehow - even though we know it was not actually so - it is as if there was an actual chronicler of the life of Jesus of Nazareth ... walking around, following him every moment, and even revealing to us his innermost thoughts and musings. That we can know the latter, in some measure, I am certain. That such a chronicler, in human form does not exist, I am also certain.

In the words of Jesus of Nazareth himself,
"Enemies of various sects encompassed me on every side, and because my soul was as a veritable target for the spears of baneful thoughts that were hurled at me by mine adversaries, too intent was I on confounding them to take measures that my deeds be rightly chronicled and my sayings be written down.

Nevertheless, when my days among men drew towards their close, a few of my acts and sayings were truthfully recorded. But the records themselves, because of the persecution of my followers, had perforce later on to be hidden away in a secret place; and only at the appointed time shall they again be brought to light.

But that time is not yet; and even when those scripts shall be found for the puzzling-over by savants, no great satisfaction will they yield save to those who have the key to their hidden meanings."
(emphasis mine)
Note that it was in 1933 that the above statements were published as part of a book, presented by yet another Messenger ("prophet") of this Era. As I've mentioned in other posts, and as the bolded sections indicate, these statements did come to pass and were shown to be true, since the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered "at the appointed time" (between 1947 & 1956).

Ahhh, and is it not so that as yet, the "savants" have mostly remained puzzled? ;) And yet, the key exists, and is easily accessible - more so now, than perhaps at any time for millions of years of human history! :) Messengers come not to conceal, but to reveal! Not to hide, but to provide! That's if - we can keep quiet long enough to actually hear something ... and not rush hastily ... to crucify them! :(

"Those who do not learn from history ..." sighhhh ...

Namaskar,

andrew
 
I'm sorry if this is a bummer, but I just don't know what to do with this kind of information. My wife likes to read historical novels, but I find that I wind up with a bunch of information in my head that's ultimately unverifiable. Have you read the Urantia book?

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
I'm sorry if this is a bummer, but I just don't know what to do with this kind of information. My wife likes to read historical novels, but I find that I wind up with a bunch of information in my head that's ultimately unverifiable. Have you read the Urantia book?

Chris
No ... I haven't. I've glanced at it in parts, even spent hours thumbing through it in a bookstore one day. I found it precisely as you describe above - just didn't know what to do with it.

Mind you, as someone with a background studying The Secret Doctrine (by H.P. Blavatsky), and various other esoteric writings, I have seen my fair share of abstruse. While it may not be as easy to pick up this kind of writing and read it like narrative, there are rewards. The anecdotes that are sometimes provided are alone, worth the effort, imo.

But in the case of the diary above, I have long ago verified, to my own personal satisfaction, that the author writes truthfully, accurately, from direct inspiration/dictation, and with the motive of upliftment & enlightenment of his fellow human beings. An entire series of his writings, after all, is provided at the direct request of the Deva Kingdom ... who are spiritually more numerous than a Humanity which often seems content/hell-bent on claiming this planet (and others) for its own - forgetting what stewardship actually entails (Responsibility, for example).

Another author I have quoted, has provided me with more (borrowed) insight into the Gospel Story, than many, many other authors combined - and has helped to completely revolutionize my understanding of historical events - and the reason for them - 2100 years ago. This, too, I have verified to my own satisfaction.

And finally, knowing that the Great Library at Alexandria once held documents and instruments which could perhaps verify 98% of anything and everything I have come to believe, hold dear, and regard as sacred knowledge/Wisdom ... well ... it has forced me - whether I would otherwise have wanted to do so or not - to completely reconsider the motives, the methods, and the outcomes of the clergy, as well as of men of science, as these have worked together to weave the very fabric of our reality today (irrespectiveof , and dead set against - in many cases - the simple facts of the matter, or Truth, as some have come to know it).

Don't worry if this makes not the slightest bit of sense. :p I have come increasingly to realize of late, that most of what I post does not. Up until now this has not bothered me.

Now, it does. But thanks for stopping by.

Namaskar,

andrew
 
Don't worry if this makes not the slightest bit of sense. :p I have come increasingly to realize of late, that most of what I post does not.

Well, if it's any comfort I know what you mean. I keep a lot of stuff to myself because I'm incapable of finding the language to explain it to anyone. Especially with no eye contact and no body language. Do you play golf?

Chris
 
aloha e andrew and chris .... what both of you post makes so much sense .... keep writing and expressing your thoughts and don't worry about whether or not others understand them at the moment, they will become cohesive and whole as time progresses , and many are not ready to understand what you are beginning to understand so they can't always relate to your thoughts but they will also get there.... in my humble opinion, both the oral traditions as well as the written traditions are encoded in symbols that remind us who we really are and our own potentials to live a life of balance and righteousness as well to reach that place within us that leads to "enlightnment" or visions or revelations .... the keys are in the symbols and the inner meanings .... the "library" or "place of all knowledge" exists within each of us when we learn how to move the spiralling energy up the spinal column into the brain .... this is the real "hall of learning" .... the energy must pass through seven energy centers in the body for all of this to happen (to open the hall of records) .... there are many stories and legends that tell us about this process, but one of my favorite that I just learned is ......

the "seven-headed serpent) from the Talmud on Kiddushin 29b .... it "records a fantastic story of a 'mazik' (destructive force) which plagued the study hall of Abaych .... " .... in a nutshell, a seven-headed serpent (also known as a 'tanina' in araamic) appears in the study hall and a series of things happen that are connected with prayer to rid the hall of this serpent .... but it is in the symbols that the true meaning of the story tell us something .... the seven headed serpent is symbolic of the seven energy centers in the body, the study hall is the symbol of the center of the brain, the location of the holy of holies or the hall of records, and it is through deep prayer (a form of meditation) that the access is made .....

what you described about the "sages" in the room writing in symbols and codes sounds like the type of "seeing" that one would encounter when they begin to open the third eye to cross over into the world of spirit .... the space that is opened can be called many names, including the study hall or the great hall of records .... recordings of these events are usually done by people who have learned how to move this internal energy into the center of the brain, the location of the third eye (the place of seeing) ....

didn't mean to get into so much .... but just wanted to encourage both of you to keep writing and don't be afraid to express your thoughts .... we are all evolving to a better and higher frequency and our minds are opening to new worlds .... enjoy the adventure and relax .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine
 
Thank you very much pohaikawahine for your kind words. I'm really very impressed by what you write and the breadth of your knowledge. I have a similar admiration for Andrew and his ability to express complicated concepts so clearly. Right now I'm undergoing a phase in my quest where I'm trying to simplify things to get to what you might call the ordinary magic of life. In examining my own thoughts and motivations I find that I have a lot of junk. You know: half baked theories, stuff I've just accepted without really checking it out, defense mechanisms, erroneous connections, inherited cultural and religious programming, predjudices...stuff like that.

I'm convinced that every bit of life is sacred and potentially magical. In the past I kinda had an outside-in approach where I was trying to absorb a lot of esoteric and metaphysical stuff and then apply it through a kind of rote ceremonialism. Practice and repeat this stuff long enough, I figured, and it would transform me into something I felt I wasn't but wanted to be. Somewhere along the line I realized that approach was counter-productive for me. What I really needed to do was clean out my closet, so to speak. Allow and let go. So that's what I'm doing.

The reason I asked about golf is because golf is a lot like that. You can adopt an outside-in approach to improving your game by constantly trying to fix your swing, obsessing over swing thoughts, looking for that magical training device or set of "game improvement" clubs, and chasing the latest tip or trick from the "pros". Been there, done that. But it doesn't work for me. Somewhere, instinctively I know how to swing stick. It's already inside of me, but to find it I need to let go and just swing. I figure spirituality is like that.

Well, that's just me.

Chris
 
Andrew,

I'm interested in your new avatar. Is it tarot imagery? Can you post a larger version? I have a great interest in primal archetypes and archetypal symbolism. I'm quite jungian that way. I used to do tarot readings but I'm no longer interested in the mundanity of divination or prediction.

Chris
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Andrew,

I'm interested in your new avatar. Is it tarot imagery? Can you post a larger version? I have a great interest in primal archetypes and archetypal symbolism. I'm quite jungian that way. I used to do tarot readings but I'm no longer interested in the mundanity of divination or prediction.

Chris
Chris (and Poh),

Thanks for sharing what you have both shared. The curious thing, is that between what's been said about golf, and the Holy of Holies (I was just now reading something online about the Anaktoron in the Eleusinian Mysteries) ... I find and feel a strange synthesis. And it's very helpful and uplifiting about now.

I'm feeling about as befuddled, and uninspired, and just generally in a funk, as I have in ages. Perhaps it has to do with a big interview coming up, yet it's also the vastly complicated thing we call "life." :p yeah, yeah, I know. I should stop taking myself (and lots of stuff) so seriously. :)

I think it's the "instinctive knowing" that I'm searching for - again - these days. It doesn't stick with you, I've realized, unless you keep it in practice. Doesn't necessarily take a pro, or a guru, to polish the skills. That's up to us. But if left on its own, even the exercise of certain instincts ... seem to atrophy. I guess we're not talking about scientific instinct here - but more in line with the innate abilities we all have. Even something as simple as what we call savoir faire.

My current avatar image is from Manly Hall's writings, depicting Thoth-Hermes Trismegistus ... Thrice Greatest Hermes. Augustus Knapp is the artiste, having illustrated Manly's magnum opus (The Secret Teachings of All Ages). I also have a tarot deck created by Hall and Knapp - quite beautiful, and definitely a variation on the usual Rider-Waite decks. Anyway, Knapp's artwork (from Secret Teachings) can be purchased online in 11"x17" versions, here. For some reason I don't see the image I was looking for there, although every other one seems listed. Let's see if I have it on the hard drive ...

phermies.jpgthothdaynight.jpg
The largest version I have. Plus the more Egyptian Thoth, by day and by night.

The Egyptian headdress corresponds to the Egyptian Thoth, and also the serpent, Typhon, whom Thoth-Hermes has clearly conquered/subdued. Yet the serpent also appears positively, in the form of the caduceus, in Hermes' left hand. Poh will know the symbolism of the snakes (ida & pingala), and central column - sushumna ... while the wings at the top (quite common as an Egyptian motif) suggest the freedom of the liberated Soul.

Hermes wears the Masonic apron in this image, and the position of the three spheres are symbolic. The dog is our lower nature, made subservient to the higher - to which the highly occult caduceus corresponds. The Emerald Tablet is in Hermes' right hand, and this commonly appears in the more Egyptian depictions of Thoth, law-giver (and scribe of the deeds of the dead, in the afterlife). Let's see, I'll try and upload a 2nd, more Egyptian image. Also, the Ibis in the upper left is usually associated with Thoth (and the higher nature), as indeed, Thoth is ibis-headed.

Some esotericists believe that among the former incarnations of Shakyamuni Buddha ... were Thoth-Hermes, Orpheus, Zoroaster, and the poet, Vyasa (originator of the Vedas). This would date back about 60,000 years - although these earlier incarnations were of an already advanced soul ...

cheers,

andrew
 
Re ypour avatar andrew, I love that the mo'o (dragon) is called Typhon because the mo'o energy (dragon energy) is symbolic of the spiralling energy in the human body and just as a typhoon (same as a hurricane but the wind goes in the opposite direction) symbolized the same spiralling energy ....

I have a copy of Manly Hall's "The Secret Teachings of All Ages" and here is what it says under your avatar:

Hermes Standing Upon the Back of Typhon.

"Hermes, as the personification of Universal Wisdom, is here depicted with his foot upon the back of Typhon, the vanquished dragon of ignorance and perversion. To the Egyptian initiates Typhon, the devourer of souls, signified the Lower world which swallows up the spiritual nature of the individual who, being imperfect, is forced to descend from the higher spheres and be reborn into the physical universe. To be swallowed by Typhon therefore signifies the process of rebirth, from which man can only release himself by vanquishing his mortal Adversary.

In one hand Hermes carries the Caduceus, a winged rod with two fighting serpents entwined about it; in the other, the immortal Emerald, upon whose surface was inscribed in raised letters the sum of philosophy. The figure wears the ancient Egyptian Masonic apron according to the pattern discovered by Belzoni, the eminent Egyptologist. The two small circles contain the forms and symbols most closely associated with Hermes. In the upper circle is the ibis, whose curious characteristics have caused it to be particularly associated with the medical art. In the initiation ceremonies the Egyptian priests wore masks in the form of the ibis head to signify that they represented the attributes of Thoth, or Hermes. The Lower circle fontains the dogn, an animal always associated with Hermes because of its intelligence and devotion. Upon the forehead of Hermes appears the uraeus, the secret symbol of the constellation of Scorpio, which represents the regeneration of the same power that in the form of a drgon lies helpless under his foot. The scarab over the heart of Hermes represents the presence of the spiritual and regenerative light within his own soul; the collar typifies by its circles the orbits of the heavenly bodies. The three points of the tail of Typhon which end in arrows indicte the three destructive expressions of universal energy - mental, moral, and physical pervesion. The entire diagram signifies mastery through the regeneration of the body, the illumination of the mind, and the transmutation of the emotions."

I like Manly Hall's works, but sometimes I don't feel he gets to the root meaning of some of the symbols (just my opinion) for example in the same book he has a section on the round table of king arthur in which he says that the "the Order of the Round Table had its distinctivbe rituals and symbols, the knowledge of them has not survived the ages. " and "King Arthur chose twenty-four who excelled all the others in daring and integrity and formed of them his Circle of the Round Table."

First there is great debate even today as to whether or not King Arthur ever existed and whether or not his legend is an allegory .... I believe it to be symbolic as are many biblical works .... the round table symbolized the human head and the 24 pairs of cranial nerves that make the whole energy system work .... the holy grail (in which only three knights are able to locate it .... just as three always go to the top of the mountain) is located in the same place in the brain as the "holy of holies" or the "hall of records" .... in part of the description of the round table the holy grail makes it appearance floating or suspended about the center of the round table covered by a veil or shroud and one legend says "fairer than ever they saw afore" - for thus the Grail reveals us as we truly are, filled with the light of the spirit that is normally hidden within the veils of the flesh." And it is said that "only one who is pure in heart and single-minded in the desire to achieve the mystery of the Grail could sit in this seat" (the Perilous Seat, which in the allegory of the Grail search represents the place occupied by Christ at the table of the Last Supper) ....

The diary that started this thread which is apparently channeled comes closer to linking us to the inner path of knowledge .... the place of visions and revelations, the hall of records, the location of the holy grail, the holy of holies, the cave of the bear (native american tradition), or the ahu (hawaiian tradition) all take us to the same place .... I would even venture to guess that there are 12 sages writing the scriptures because they would be circle of elders or the 12 pairs of cranial nerves, or the 24 knights of the round table ..... just tossing out some thoughts .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
 
taijasi said:
...

In the words of Jesus of Nazareth himself,
"Enemies of various sects encompassed me on every side, and because my soul was as a veritable target for the spears of baneful thoughts that were hurled at me by mine adversaries, too intent was I on confounding them to take measures that my deeds be rightly chronicled and my sayings be written down.

Nevertheless, when my days among men drew towards their close, a few of my acts and sayings were truthfully recorded. But the records themselves, because of the persecution of my followers, had perforce later on to be hidden away in a secret place; and only at the appointed time shall they again be brought to light.

But that time is not yet; and even when those scripts shall be found for the puzzling-over by savants, no great satisfaction will they yield save to those who have the key to their hidden meanings." (emphasis mine)

Note that it was in 1933 that the above statements were published as part of a book, presented by yet another Messenger ("prophet") of this Era. As I've mentioned in other posts, and as the bolded sections indicate, these statements did come to pass and were shown to be true, since the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered "at the appointed time" (between 1947 & 1956).


"Those who do not learn from history ..." sighhhh ...

Namaskar,

andrew

I'd really like to know where the author found such "statements" of Christ.

That would be a phenominal revelation...

v/r

Q
 
"hidden away in a secret place" .... imho, that secret place is not outside of us in a physical location .... it is internal .... the "keys" to unlock it, again in my opinion, are different frequencies of sound .... and a deep form of meditation or trance .... this can be accessed by deep prayer, spinning, rocking, chanting etc..... many different ways .... we must go within and walk (what would be known in the hawaiian language as 'po mokoke') the path of the night rainbow and we are all 'ka po'e ao hiwa' (light carriers or those that tend the sacred light) .... when we remember who we are and are able to move the spiralling energy up the mountain (toward the center of the brain) we can access the "hidden away secret place" ....

the "keys" to this ancient path or process are everywhere .... but we must open our eyes and see with our souls in order to obtain them .... one document referred to as the "emerald tablets" (andrew, you will know about this one from your avatar) was reportedly written by Hermes and it is therefore called the Emerald Tablet of Hermes ....it is from this document that we find the refernce to "as above, so below" .... the exact wording is

"I speak not fiction, but what is certain and most true.

What is below is like that which is above, and that which is above is like that which is below for performing the miracle of one thing.

And as all things are produced from One, by mediation of One, so all things are produced from this One thing by adaptation."

The document goes on to speak of things like "the key of seven", the
"key of mystery" etc., yet even this document is written in codes .... the reference to "what is above is like what is below" has many levels of meaning, but its essence, as I understand it, is that what exists outside of us is repeated within, and what is within is replicated without .... the symbols keep telling us to return within to walk the ancient path of wisdom or knowledge and only then will we return to our true sovereignty or to the promised land .... then the regathering will begin in ernest .... and our world will change because we have changed .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
 
Goodness, I feel motivated to respond to so much of what you've shared, Poh, and I look forward to doing so when I can devote proper time and attention (I have a deadline right now). I may have to look a couple of things up, but 98% of what you've said resonates and rings true. The other 2% is just stuff I haven't seen for some time, including some of what you mentioned about King Arthur. I had always believed that he might be purely symbolic/mythical myself, but somewhere in recent years I do recall coming across a statement that there was an actual figure, Merlin included. It may even have been Manly Hall's writings, but I don't think so. Perhaps I can find it ...

Since I began this thread on insight into the Christian Gospels, I just want to respond to what you asked about 24 hrs ago, Q. In order to fully answer the inquiry, " I'd really like to know where the author found such "statements" of Christ. ... That would be a phenominal revelation..." - I could only refer you to the source of the quotation. There is both an Introduction in this book, and an Afterword, which you might find satisfactory, or at least, helpful. They're too long to provide here in full, but here are a few brief excerpts:
"In any case, a part of Master Jesus' work has been and still is by means of the written word to counteract those baneful, doctrinal fallacies of the past, thereby seeking to inspire a greater spirit of tolerance, not only among the differing sects but also towards other religions. Indeed, to-day in these times of crisis when the need is ever more pressing to save man from the disastrous effect of wrong thinking and wrong action, He is using every available means, however modest and varied, to bring about that desideratum, the most important factor of which is Unity among all the peoples of the world.
...
Inspirational writing is older than Christendom itself, and practically all religious communities of whatever faith are familiar with it in one form or another. It is not to be confounded with automatic writing, the latter being a negative type in which the hand rather than the mind is used by some disembodied presence. As those who practise automatic writing are usually unaware of what they are setting down, their critical faculty is in abeyance, and they are therefore at the mercy of the entity who writes through them. With inspirational writing this is not the case; the transmitter is fully aware of all he sets down, and so is able to judge when the transmission is faulty.

To some people it may seem strange that in given circumstances both inspirational and scientific methods can be co-related; yet this is possible in so far that the veracity of inspirational writing can be authenticated by those who possess the necessary faculties. That the utterances in the script which herein follows were inpressed on the writer by the Master Jesus, has been authenticated by two trained and independent investigators along the line of occult science.
...
... what the writer relates in the preliminary proem about his visit to the Master's garden in Syria, may not seem as irrational as it would have done in the days when agnosticism was regarded as an aspect of progressiveness.
...
To be explicit, it is difficult even for a Master to impress the mind of His medium relative to matters with which that medium is unfamiliar. Indeed, the medium's mind may be likened to a piano: if some of its notes are missing, the musician however gifted will be considerably hampered by the limitations imposed.

With regard to the stylized language of the script, apart from the fact that the Master has certain characteristics of speech - was He not an adept at poetical expression when He trod the earth of Palestine? - the somewhat Biblical language is particularly suited to rhetorical utterance.

Finally, the spiritual pride with its self-assertiveness being one of the dangers which beset the neophyte on the occult or mystical Path, the writer desires as far as may be still possible to remain anonymous [- and this was the case, until after his death]."
I have only quoted a few portions of the Introduction, in order to remain within copyright restrictions, and Amazon.com reproduces almost the entire first chapter in its entirety, if you wish to take a look: link. The first words of that chapter are referenced in the Intro, and above, thus: "Prolonged and deep had been my meditation, so deep that my soul had left my body. And I was transported to a garden in a country far away from my dwelling-place. Yet was that garden familiar to me, and the faces of some of those who walked therein as they conversed lovingly together, for oftentimes had I been in that garden before. And I stood beneath the branches of a great cedar-tree, and watched, and waited, knowing that I had come to this sanctified place for a purpose. And presently towards me along one of the paths came that Great One Whom I had always desired to serve. And as He approached, I was dazzled by the resplendence of His aureole, which was of surpassingly beautiful colors suffused with gold."

A final quotation, from the Afterword (found only in recent editions, as explained by the author at the start of the Afterword), is helpful and relevant to this thread, and I do not hesitate to post it here, since this seems the appropriate place:
"Before concluding this Afterword, it may be of interest to add some data, recently given out by the Tibetan Master in regard to certain things which formed no part of the intentions of The Christ and the Initiate Jesus when They inaugurated the Christian religion.

First, it was never intended that the Old Testament should be incorporated with The Gospels. Whereas, like the Ramayana and The Indian Song Celestial [The Bhagavad Gita], The Gospels come under the heading of first-class Scriptures, the Old Testament for the most part is merely second-class Scriptures, and its incorporation into the Christian Religion, with which fundamentally it has nothing to do, can only be regarded as a major misfortune, seeing that the two are not reconcilable. Indeed, the attempt to reconcile them has been responsible for much of that theological juggling and brain-tormenting which has merely made confusion worse confounded.
Secondly, the intolerant attitude towards matters of sex which has prevailed throughout Christendom was at variance with The Christ's intentions. Primarily responsible for this was the propagandist Saul of Tarsus, alias St. Paul, whose Christendom was coloured by his own personality and the lack of tolerance, understanding and far-sightedness in his character."
I might add that the character and tone of the author of this book, as is made plain in the Introduction and Afterword, are 100% in sympathy and accord with his Master and with the Master Jesus, in that several times it is stated that the hope is to stimulate and re-vitalize certain of the truths of the Christian religion which have otherwise fallen by the wayside - at least, as of 1933, and shortly thereafter. The author makes clear that while there are many who simply regard Christianity as a failed religion (relative to its Founder's intentions), it is his understanding that this is not the case, nor would it be so regarded by The Christ, by the Master Jesus, or by other Masters. My own, personal opinion, is the same. And while the average Christian might see this, laugh and say, "so what?" - or perhaps even feel indignified - there is really no reason to feel offended, or defensive in the least. Before so reacting, I think s/he should at least give the author the benefit of the doubt (his intentions - and the true source of the writing - having been made plain) ... and pick up a copy of this book and read it for him or herself! ;)

The last thing I'd like to say, is that - though my own means of verification are much more limited than the occult investigators which the author mentions in the Introduction - I have sufficiently for myself looked into the possible authenticity of this, and other of his writings, and know them (as well as even the most pious & studious of Christians knows his Bible to be likewise) - to be accurate and authentic. Now anyone may differ, and feel free to argue ... that is your right! But I will go to my grave believing what I believe, and knowing what I know.

Certainly I would not perjure myself on something which I regard as serious as this ... thus, with my hand on a whole stack of books which are a thousand times more Sacred to me than the Christian Bible - I would testify to the legitimacy of Visions of the Nazarene. The book, like its author, serves the highest Purpose, which any can serve, on this planet. And I know, for certain, than anyone who reads it with an open heart and an unbiased mind, can and will arrive at a similar understanding, if it be his or her time to do so. I can say that with regard to dozens of other books, including the Diary from which I quoted in the original post. That that author is similarly inspired (and was & is an advanced student of the Masters), I know beyond a shadow of a doubt. A part of me is even mystified that it would not be obvious to others, yet perhaps with the reading of a few of his entries in their entirety, others would be sure - I don't know.

And yet, of all the things I feel certain, the one thing I cannot say, since that is well beyond me - is whether any writings such as these are "meant" to appeal to and inspire anyone, other than myself, at this particular time, or ever. No, I do not concede that they are "true for one person and not for another," for that would be pure relativism ... but let's face it, there are some who might pick up A Brief History of Time, be utterly unmoved by it, and being able to verifiy very little of Hawking's theory in & of themselves, would simply toss the baby out with the bathwater. And so would many judge the Holy Koran, the New Testament, the Bhagavad Gita, and so forth. Others, such as myself, might feel that the genius of Shakespeare evidenced the wit & inspiration of an arhat (who either collaborated with or inspired ol' Bill, or else was William Shakespeare, or perhaps overshadowed him). Yet some would just say, "yeah, yeah, he wrote them plays," and be done with it. But do you like Shakespeare, and do you get something out of his plays? That seems to be the question. :rolleyes: Was he a literary genius? Hmmm, that's subjective. But did he write all those plays or sonnets? Well, however he did so, and whatever his inspiration - that he wrote them, we cannot argue.

I simply wish sometimes, that I could say a few words of recommendation, and that those who claim they are actually interested in the writings of Jesus, or of the other Masters, might be interested. And yet, until I am sure I know another person's karma, what their Soul truly needs, and when, then I must remain content to say a few words (or write a novella :p), and hope that others might - see. Isn't that all that any of us can do?

Mmmmm. Perhaps there is one thing more. And it's a lifetime in the doing. :)

Cheers ... time to get busy!

andrew
 
taijasi said:
Goodness, I feel motivated to respond to so much of what you've shared, Poh, and I look forward to doing so when I can devote proper time and attention (I have a deadline right now). I may have to look a couple of things up, but 98% of what you've said resonates and rings true. The other 2% is just stuff I haven't seen for some time, including some of what you mentioned about King Arthur. I had always believed that he might be purely symbolic/mythical myself, but somewhere in recent years I do recall coming across a statement that there was an actual figure, Merlin included. It may even have been Manly Hall's writings, but I don't think so. Perhaps I can find it ...


Since I began this thread on insight into the Christian Gospels, I just want to respond to what you asked about 24 hrs ago, Q. In order to fully answer the inquiry, " I'd really like to know where the author found such "statements" of Christ. ... That would be a phenominal revelation..." - I could only refer you to the source of the quotation. There is both an Introduction in this book, and an Afterword, which you might find satisfactory, or at least, helpful. They're too long to provide here in full, but here are a few brief excerpts:
"In any case, a part of Master Jesus' work has been and still is by means of the written word to counteract those baneful, doctrinal fallacies of the past, thereby seeking to inspire a greater spirit of tolerance, not only among the differing sects but also towards other religions. Indeed, to-day in these times of crisis when the need is ever more pressing to save man from the disastrous effect of wrong thinking and wrong action, He is using every available means, however modest and varied, to bring about that desideratum, the most important factor of which is Unity among all the peoples of the world.
...
Inspirational writing is older than Christendom itself, and practically all religious communities of whatever faith are familiar with it in one form or another. It is not to be confounded with automatic writing, the latter being a negative type in which the hand rather than the mind is used by some disembodied presence. As those who practise automatic writing are usually unaware of what they are setting down, their critical faculty is in abeyance, and they are therefore at the mercy of the entity who writes through them. With inspirational writing this is not the case; the transmitter is fully aware of all he sets down, and so is able to judge when the transmission is faulty.

To some people it may seem strange that in given circumstances both inspirational and scientific methods can be co-related; yet this is possible in so far that the veracity of inspirational writing can be authenticated by those who possess the necessary faculties. That the utterances in the script which herein follows were inpressed on the writer by the Master Jesus, has been authenticated by two trained and independent investigators along the line of occult science.
...
... what the writer relates in the preliminary proem about his visit to the Master's garden in Syria, may not seem as irrational as it would have done in the days when agnosticism was regarded as an aspect of progressiveness.
...
To be explicit, it is difficult even for a Master to impress the mind of His medium relative to matters with which that medium is unfamiliar. Indeed, the medium's mind may be likened to a piano: if some of its notes are missing, the musician however gifted will be considerably hampered by the limitations imposed.

With regard to the stylized language of the script, apart from the fact that the Master has certain characteristics of speech - was He not an adept at poetical expression when He trod the earth of Palestine? - the somewhat Biblical language is particularly suited to rhetorical utterance.

Finally, the spiritual pride with its self-assertiveness being one of the dangers which beset the neophyte on the occult or mystical Path, the writer desires as far as may be still possible to remain anonymous [- and this was the case, until after his death]."

I have only quoted a few portions of the Introduction, in order to remain within copyright restrictions, and Amazon.com reproduces almost the entire first chapter in its entirety, if you wish to take a look: link. The first words of that chapter are referenced in the Intro, and above, thus: "Prolonged and deep had been my meditation, so deep that my soul had left my body. And I was transported to a garden in a country far away from my dwelling-place. Yet was that garden familiar to me, and the faces of some of those who walked therein as they conversed lovingly together, for oftentimes had I been in that garden before. And I stood beneath the branches of a great cedar-tree, and watched, and waited, knowing that I had come to this sanctified place for a purpose. And presently towards me along one of the paths came that Great One Whom I had always desired to serve. And as He approached, I was dazzled by the resplendence of His aureole, which was of surpassingly beautiful colors suffused with gold."


A final quotation, from the Afterword (found only in recent editions, as explained by the author at the start of the Afterword), is helpful and relevant to this thread, and I do not hesitate to post it here, since this seems the appropriate place:
"Before concluding this Afterword, it may be of interest to add some data, recently given out by the Tibetan Master in regard to certain things which formed no part of the intentions of The Christ and the Initiate Jesus when They inaugurated the Christian religion.

First, it was never intended that the Old Testament should be incorporated with The Gospels. Whereas, like the Ramayana and The Indian Song Celestial [The Bhagavad Gita], The Gospels come under the heading of first-class Scriptures, the Old Testament for the most part is merely second-class Scriptures, and its incorporation into the Christian Religion, with which fundamentally it has nothing to do, can only be regarded as a major misfortune, seeing that the two are not reconcilable. Indeed, the attempt to reconcile them has been responsible for much of that theological juggling and brain-tormenting which has merely made confusion worse confounded.
Secondly, the intolerant attitude towards matters of sex which has prevailed throughout Christendom was at variance with The Christ's intentions. Primarily responsible for this was the propagandist Saul of Tarsus, alias St. Paul, whose Christendom was coloured by his own personality and the lack of tolerance, understanding and far-sightedness in his character."

I might add that the character and tone of the author of this book, as is made plain in the Introduction and Afterword, are 100% in sympathy and accord with his Master and with the Master Jesus, in that several times it is stated that the hope is to stimulate and re-vitalize certain of the truths of the Christian religion which have otherwise fallen by the wayside - at least, as of 1933, and shortly thereafter. The author makes clear that while there are many who simply regard Christianity as a failed religion (relative to its Founder's intentions), it is his understanding that this is not the case, nor would it be so regarded by The Christ, by the Master Jesus, or by other Masters. My own, personal opinion, is the same. And while the average Christian might see this, laugh and say, "so what?" - or perhaps even feel indignified - there is really no reason to feel offended, or defensive in the least. Before so reacting, I think s/he should at least give the author the benefit of the doubt (his intentions - and the true source of the writing - having been made plain) ... and pick up a copy of this book and read it for him or herself! ;)

The last thing I'd like to say, is that - though my own means of verification are much more limited than the occult investigators which the author mentions in the Introduction - I have sufficiently for myself looked into the possible authenticity of this, and other of his writings, and know them (as well as even the most pious & studious of Christians knows his Bible to be likewise) - to be accurate and authentic. Now anyone may differ, and feel free to argue ... that is your right! But I will go to my grave believing what I believe, and knowing what I know.

Certainly I would not perjure myself on something which I regard as serious as this ... thus, with my hand on a whole stack of books which are a thousand times more Sacred to me than the Christian Bible - I would testify to the legitimacy of Visions of the Nazarene. The book, like its author, serves the highest Purpose, which any can serve, on this planet. And I know, for certain, than anyone who reads it with an open heart and an unbiased mind, can and will arrive at a similar understanding, if it be his or her time to do so. I can say that with regard to dozens of other books, including the Diary from which I quoted in the original post. That that author is similarly inspired (and was & is an advanced student of the Masters), I know beyond a shadow of a doubt. A part of me is even mystified that it would not be obvious to others, yet perhaps with the reading of a few of his entries in their entirety, others would be sure - I don't know.

And yet, of all the things I feel certain, the one thing I cannot say, since that is well beyond me - is whether any writings such as these are "meant" to appeal to and inspire anyone, other than myself, at this particular time, or ever. No, I do not concede that they are "true for one person and not for another," for that would be pure relativism ... but let's face it, there are some who might pick up A Brief History of Time, be utterly unmoved by it, and being able to verifiy very little of Hawking's theory in & of themselves, would simply toss the baby out with the bathwater. And so would many judge the Holy Koran, the New Testament, the Bhagavad Gita, and so forth. Others, such as myself, might feel that the genius of Shakespeare evidenced the wit & inspiration of an arhat (who either collaborated with or inspired ol' Bill, or else was William Shakespeare, or perhaps overshadowed him). Yet some would just say, "yeah, yeah, he wrote them plays," and be done with it. But do you like Shakespeare, and do you get something out of his plays? That seems to be the question. :rolleyes: Was he a literary genius? Hmmm, that's subjective. But did he write all those plays or sonnets? Well, however he did so, and whatever his inspiration - that he wrote them, we cannot argue.

I simply wish sometimes, that I could say a few words of recommendation, and that those who claim they are actually interested in the writings of Jesus, or of the other Masters, might be interested. And yet, until I am sure I know another person's karma, what their Soul truly needs, and when, then I must remain content to say a few words (or write a novella :p), and hope that others might - see. Isn't that all that any of us can do?

Mmmmm. Perhaps there is one thing more. And it's a lifetime in the doing. :)

Cheers ... time to get busy!

andrew

First of all. I will be the first to agree there is more to Christ than "He offers salvation, do His will, die, go to heaven".

Second, I think there is much more to the Old and New testament than most give credit for. Anyone who chooses to dismiss the "foundation" (old testament), has missed three quarters of the point (IMO).

Third, my friend, any pianist worth his/her salt will know which keys are bad on a piano, and will compensate by going up or down one octave, hence not missing a note (though the song will sound different sligthly and be rather unique in presentation) :rolleyes: ;) but isn't that the spice of life?

There are those of us who have a true desire to understand Jesus, and we spend a life time learning. Any advice is good advice, as long as it doesn't imply that Jesus is not God. Once one attempts that, the doors close and the ears shut down. Why? Why throw away a promise? Why ignore a way of life that for all practical purposes is better than anything that has come down the pike in over 7000 years? Why call Jesus "Master", when that implies a human term, one that the student can one day hold? Why call Him master, when it is much more appropriate to call Him "Lord"? Why indeed...;)

my thoughts

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Why call Jesus "Master", when that implies a human term, one that the student can one day hold? Why call Him master, when it is much more appropriate to call Him "Lord"? Why indeed...;)
Don't forget that the use of this term was in fashion in years gone by, and though some still retain it today, there are many who simply prefer the word "Teacher," or Elder Brother. The title "Master," just as "Mahatma," was never self-designated, but simply referred, in the first case, to one who has overcome all limitation and mastered the art & science of living in this world, while in the second case, one who has worked to allow the perfection of the Inner Man ("God") to shine forth - and thus demonstrated the `Great Soul' within us all.

Within esoteric teachings (including Theosophy as a subset), that Path that leads to self-Mastery is said to lead us away from this planet, as concerns the vast majority of human souls. However, there is still a great need - perhaps never so great as at the present time - for the voluntary sacrifice (of one's earned Nirvana) of those who have attained Mastery, so that Humanity can cross the present Abyss which looms before us all. Of the Seven Paths open to the jivanmukti ("free-soul"), Earth Service is in many ways the noblest, and one of the most difficult. Only a small handful may choose it.

What I have always understood is that Jesus of Nazareth chose this path, and is one of the eldest "Masters" Who remain with us. Following Asekha Adeptship (Initiation of the 5th Degree), a Master who remains on Earth will eventually become a Chohan, meaning "Lord." The title is an honorary one, yet it signifies most of what any Christian I have ever met understands by that word - with several definite exceptions. The Spiritual Hierarchy consists of no fewer than Seven Chohans, each corresponding to one of the Seven Rays ... in the case of Master Jesus, the Sixth Ray of Devotion and Idealism. If desired, one can trace this teaching back thousands of years, and it can be found in every major world religion - Christianity included. In practical terms, Master J. serves as the earthly correspondence (or Representative) for one of the Seven Angels before the Throne, one of the Seven Archangels (Gabriel, I should think). Esoterically, this makes perfect sense, although in terms of RC teachings, I doubt it, except for Liberal Catholicism.

Following Chohanship, a Master - if he remains with the Hierarchy for its higher offices - can go on to become a Maha Chohan, or "Great Lord." Only one individual truly bears that title, and in early Theosophical writings the Masters KH and M would usually refer to this individual - Their superior - as "The Chief." The Maha Chohan is said to guide all of civilization as we know it, over vast aeons of time, and is aided by his two brothers of equal rank and standing, "The Christ" (or Bodhisattva, in charge of Religion - singular), and "The Manu" (whose office - guiding Government, singular - is fairly familiar in exoteric terms to every Hindu). These are the correspondence upon our planet to the Holy Ghost, Son, and Father Aspects, respectively. And no one in modern movements "made these terms and offices up." They have existed since before our world began, though functionally and practically there was no Hierarchy until 18 million years ago. But the objection that these are new age ideas, or some kind of attempt to reconcile various religious teachings or create a synthesis ... is absurd. Take a single religion or set of spiritual teachings, and all of this can be traced, documented, detailed, and explained.

Jesus would not be lost in this, if there were willingness to consider that God does not make mistakes. Because we have insisted on conceptualizing Him in earthly terms, we have misunderstood, or failed to understand, the nature of The Plan. Our Human Free Will has most certainly served somewhat to derail The Plan, yet no Master Jesus, no Son of God, not even God the Father in Highest Aspect ... can reroute the train if we insist on jumping track. And while the Christian recognizes this and admits of one Saviour - calling Him Jesus the Christ, the esotericist admits of the spiritual principle as Savior, calling it Christ in (you), the Hope of Glory, with St. Paul. And Soteriology may differ from there, but the point agreed is that "no man comes to the Father except through Christ." And practically speaking, from that point on, the goal of the Christian and that of the esotericist is one and the same. For until and unless this world can unite and agree upon these religious basics, there can be no peace, and no amelioration to the conflict within, showing itself so sorely in our world today.

Love and Light,

andrew
 
I think the point here is that Jesus Christ is not an element within a system or spiritual hierarchy - esoteric otherwise - he is that which causes all things to be:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

This contradicts your essential message that Christ is a cog in an esoterists' spiritual wheel.

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
I think the point here is that Jesus Christ is not an element within a system or spiritual hierarchy - esoteric otherwise - he is that which causes all things to be:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

This contradicts your essential message that Christ is a cog in an esoterists' spiritual wheel.

Thomas
Well, this is where we'll have to agree to disagree - unless you want to disagree that we disagree, which is double disagreement, yet still brings us no closer to the same page. :p

From the standpoint of Christian theology, what you say is not surprising and is only to be expected. Of course you will insist that Christ is central, and key ... and go further and make a God of Him. But I maintain that it is you who bestow this identity upon him, or as Voltaire puts it:
"If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated."
The esotericist distinguishes the Initiate Jesus of Nazareth (now a high Adept) from the still more lofty being, The Christ, and recognizes in the latter everything that the Christian recognizes - but does not "shut the door." Instead of saying, Christ is all of which Man is capable - then contradicting himself in his very next breath ... it is acknowledged that Christ became Who and What He is precisely by following the same advice He has given us. Upon this truth rests the authority and validity of his Word(s).

And so the reading of such Holy Scriptures as the Gospels, and many other still Holier writings, will proceed differently. Instead of always making the (incorrect) assumption that man is destined to fail (owing to so-called "original sin"), the esotericist makes the Universal assumption that we are destined to succeed, to triumph, over the world of sin and matter (which are distinguished, save by those who call themselves `Gnostics'). And why is it safe to make such an assumption? Because we have seen it again and again, made true through the crucible of this world's tests & trials - administered esoterically by the energies of Scorpio, which temper the disciple via the tests of Saturn, or Satan.

Yet, all of this will be either absurdity to the Christian, or he will accuse the esotericist or heresy and idolatry. And this he will do only because the Church has taught him thus, not because he knows it from his own experience. At best, his experience can confirm for him that the nature of this world involves challenges and apparent injustice, and so he looks to the next world for his reward, and for the balancing of debts and merits. But the esotericist, knowing that God has not failed in His administering of Justice ("not a sparrow falls") ... does not look to the next world, nor to any outside agent - for his salvation. He accepts the words of the Christ literally and as such, and accepts the challenge to be all that God has intended for him to be - and while still in this world, to boot!

Now it will certainly take him many lifetimes, but the sooner he gets started the better - instead of sitting around arguing about various absurdities ... or quibbling with those who have yet to accept that all Great Teachers showed us the Law of Rebirth, the Law of Karma, and the Great Law of Love. Knowing that the words of Christ's own spiritual Brother and esoteric counterpart (in the East) are sound, he acts on Buddha's last piece of advice to His bhikkus, and to Humanity:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"I taught you not to believe merely because you have heard, but when you believed of your consciousness, then to act accordingly and abundantly."[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
[/FONT]​
Because of humility, many an esoteric student who knows will begin various statements with such phrases as Thus have I heard or It has been said. On the one hand, this may be no different than to say, God has said ... yet as soon as one proclaims, "God told me X" - the safest policy will be to either disregard X entirely, or weigh it carefully with the proverbial grain of salt. No student who truly knows would utter truth in such manner. None. Thus the adage: To Know, To Dare, To Will, To Be SILENT.

Yet I babble on, incur great karma, and have rendered disservice to my Group on so many occasions, that I sometimes wonder why I still have a tongue! The Lord forgives (for the old Jehovah with his wrath and jealousy and host of anthropic pettinesses does not exist) ... yet the Law of Karma is inexorable. Ignorance is no sin, but only the greatest of misfortunes in the present World Age. Spiritual stubbornness, on the other hand, is quite lamentable.

Part of the challenge, as I see it, is one not for simply the Christian aspirant, but for those of all backgrounds, whether religious or not. The Christian will simply construe it, or comprehend and face it, in a fairly characteristic and predictable way. This universal challenge is thus: Since our fundamental identity is One with GOD (and on this point there can be no dispute - unless one wishes only to argue with & within oneself) ... how are we to relate to (let alone Identify with) our true SELF and yet remain humble, and human? How can we maintain the virtue of humility, and not lose ourself to pride? The irony is that no sooner has the mystic glimpsed the merest twinkle of the true Nature of his own (and ALL Being), does he immediately become faced with an onslaught of all of his worst vices and human weaknesses - which present themselves to him not as something undesirable and limiting, but rather as the familiar and more comfortable "self" with which he has long identified, and whose very existence is now threatened (doomed) if he is to become what he truly & essentially is.

It does no good to attempt to wrestle with this problem proverbially, or intellectually. We will not find our answer there. The struggle is an intimately personal one, being the beginnings of the very challenge between the Angel of the Presence ... and the Dweller (on the threshold of Divinity) - which will one day, in some future life, engulf him entirely - until one emerges victorious and triumphant. This is the greatest of human dramas, has been successfully faced by dozens (perhaps hundreds, even thousands) of souls throughout history (and not just one) ... and it presents itself to the Race as a whole at this very moment. We may not be facing the final conflict (for that comes much later), but Humanity is on the verge, the threshold, of an Initiation. Call it a conversion if you will, that does not change the reality, or the nature, of the challenge - and the opportunity.

But materialism still reigns supreme in the lives of millions, and apathy is always acceptable if there are no consequences. Our Piscean individuality - once a positive quality (which is still the case for some), is fast becoming a detriment to our well-being and a threat to further progress. The Aquarian (person, let alone disciple) is one who is learning to cooperate with the group, and at the greatest level - there is but one group: Humanity. We do not need to agree on all accounts and in every particular, but if there is no acceptance of our spiritual nature (under some category, heading, or school of thought), then there can be no concept of personal Responsibility. What does the Good of the Whole matter, if the actions of the individual have no repercussions upon his friend, neighbor and brother?

Because of this problem, the Hierarchy (Spiritual Government, Elder Brothers, `Christ and His Church') - call Them what you will, just so you acknowledge Them ... the Hierarchy has taught Brotherhood for several centuries now, and every effort has been made to demonstrate this principle for and with the aspirants and disciples who are capable of living the Ideal. If one looks around, dozens of esoteric groups can be found, in practically every country, every state of the US, and in (or near) most major cities of the world. Often there are entire communities of individuals who have dedicated their lives to the salvation of the planet. And while I really do not want to level criticism against groups (for these are the seed of salvation), I do find it somewhat depressing that there are so many people still beleaguered by the same old theological thorns which imprison, torture and all but defeat - the human spirit. "God, save MY soul ... but nevermind my Brother." :(

Were it my role, and privilege, to serve in such a capacity, I would gladly wield the Sword of Manjushri (to which The Christ also referred, since He wields it, too) - and cut away the lies and deceptions. I would gladly place such evils upon the threshing floor, remove the chaff, and offer my brother the fruits of the Harvest. Yet there is too much presumption, and I do not know another's karma well enough to say what s/he needs, and what form of the Wisdom best suits ... which Wisdom is so vast, and my familiarity with it, so small. I would throw away the wheat, unwittingly, and hand my brother an empty husk - not because I am ill-intentioned, but simply because, one must live the Truth, if one is to speak of it, spread it, and share it. How can we give, what we do not ourself possess?

I could go on like that, but instead, I would only ask that you apply the same standard. Please do likewise. I enjoy discussion, and am often long-winded, and am usually well-intentioned. But as I strive to exercise better judgement, and speak perhaps more carefully about that which remains for me Ideal (since I can hardly say it has become practical), please be sure to do likewise. I do not sense a stone, for I can eat what you have handed me. I have done so before. I do so now. I am grateful, because without, I would often go hungry. However impalatable, I only ask that you look more carefully at what I've suggested. If I've handed you a serpent, you will know what to do with it; but you see, snakes are not the only things with scales. :)

Andreas Bar-abbâ
 
Thomas said:
I think the point here is that Jesus Christ is not an element within a system or spiritual hierarchy - esoteric otherwise - he is that which causes all things to be:

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

This contradicts your essential message that Christ is a cog in an esoterists' spiritual wheel.

Thomas

Didn't I imply that? (lol) :D
 
Indeed you did.

In fact, re-reading your post, you sum the point up nicely:

Why throw away a promise?

I've been reading too much philosophy, the enemy of common sense!

Pax,

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
Indeed you did.

In fact, re-reading your post, you sum the point up nicely:

Why throw away a promise?

I've been reading too much philosophy, the enemy of common sense!

Pax,

Thomas
Let us be clear (since we seem to be harping upon this point). No man, nor a God - not even the God ... can do for us, what we cannot, will not, or do not wish, to do by and for ourselves.

This is why, for all the inspiration and proverbial charm of the poem Footsteps, we will always fall short of grasping the dual nature of the Christ (in His relationship to man) ... unless we complement Margaret Powers' beautiful poem with Rudyard Kipling's IF.

The way I learned this poem, we made one small adaptation, as eight different individuals each recited four lines before an audience. For the penultimate word, `Man,' we substituted "TRP" - standing for Totally Responsible Person. For an esoteric rendering, we might equally well substitute the word Christ, for Man.

This is perhaps a good opportunity to bring up the tale about the man and the flood, and his faith in God which was ultimately supposed to save him. "The Lord will provide," seemed to have become this man's motto, and thus, e'en though the waters did rise, he remained content that he would be delivered - for indeed, he had been promised! And so, two rowboats and a helicopter later, the man was still singing the same old song, until finally, the flood-waters washed him away! Standing before the throne of God Almighty, the man looked puzzled, and asked, "Why did I die? I have always had strong faith, and believed in your promise. Why didn't you save me?" The mystified Lord gave this old fool a look of bewilderment, and said, "You idiot, I sent two rowboats and a helicopter! What were you waiting for!?! Next time, at least meet me half way!" :rolleyes:

Once again ... I will quote a parable from The Vision of the Nazarene - as told in Jesus' own words, to a recent disciple (all emphasis is in the original):
I will tell thee a parable. Know that once there were two countries, and the one was a land flowing with milk and honey, and the other an arid region, full of strife and unrest, so that the one was called the Land of Bliss and the other was called the Land of Woe. But between these two countries was a swift, wide and dangerous river, and many who sought to cross that river lost their lives in the attempt.
And then one day there came a man who, because of his love for the people, said: “Lo, I will endeavour to place a rope from one bank to the other, and even if I lose my life in the attempt, what matter, for others will henceforward be able to cling to the rope and so cross the river in safety.”
So saying, that man proceeded to carry out his design; and having procured a rope, he fixed one end to a tree, and made a noose at the other, and plunged into the current to battle with the waves.
But while he was battling, some hunters who had come to the bank shot at him with their arrows and mortally wounded him; for amidst the spray and the splash of the waters they deemed him to be some animal and not a man at all.
Nevertheless, with a last and great effort, he managed to throw the noose of his rope round the stump of a tree, ere he sank beneath the waves; and thus had he carried out his design, though he lost his life because of those hunters and their lack of discernment.
Now when the people saw what had happened, they began to worship him as a hero, saying he died to save us, and so is he worthy of our adulation and love.
And yet although they worshipped him, only a very few attempted to cross the river, for they said within themselves: “Even though the rope is there and we cannot drown if we cling thereto, yet are the waters cold, and the river is wide, and the trouble of crossing is very great.”
And so in the course of time, the rope was almost forgotten; moreover, through disuse it had become covered with weeds and entangled in the fallen branches of old trees, so that hardly did it look like a rope at all.
But the worship of that hero continued nevertheless; and monuments were erected to his memory, and people sang songs of adulation to him and prayed to him because of his great love for them.
And then as a second and third and fourth generation of men came into being, there arose wiseacres and orators and men of learning; and of the hero they preached, and how he had died to save others; but of the rope across the river they never spoke, for now it had been forgotten altogether.
And so great a confusion arose by reason of their arguments and oratory and teachings, that finally many superstitions came to be, both among themselves and among their hearers; and only the very few were able to discern between folly and truth.
And much discord was sown amongst them, so that they quarreled and fought; and those few who were able to discern the truth, they persecuted and reviled, so that the country called the Land of Woe became more stricken with sorrow and unrest than already it was.
And then at last a body of orators arose, and they cried: “Why this strife? All that is needful is to worship this hero as a god, and to believe that he died to save others, and lo! When we ourselves die we shall go to the country called the Land of Bliss without any trouble at all. For although our bodies cannot float across the river while we are alive, our souls will float across it when we are dead. Moreover, so great were his love and power and heroism, that all we ask of his Spirit he will surely do, if we but shower enough love upon him in return.”
Then when the populace heard this, they were overcome with exceeding joy, and heaped honours upon those orators, saying: “Great is their wisdom, for they have shown us an easy way. Simple indeed is it to worship and to pray and to ask our hero to save us when we die; so now let us eat, drink and be merry and make the best of our sojourn in our Land of Woe.”
But meanwhile the spirit of that hero looked upon his brothers with sadness in his eyes as he listened to their prayers and petitions. And into their ears he whispered:
“My children, ye do err, for verily I lived to save you, and my death was but an incident of my attempt, and can never be the cause of your salvation.”
“Alas that ye should have forgotten the rope which I placed across the River between the Lands of Woe and Bliss, for to that end did I come and to no other.”
“And although because of my love for you, my spirit is close to you and would fain comfort and cheer you in your adversities, yet carry you across the River I cannot, however much ye may pray and implore.”
But although that hero spoke to them thus, yet too loud did they utter their prayers and petitions to hear the still small voice of his spirit, so did they remain in the Land of Woe.
And the Radiant One said, as He smiled:
And now that is the end of my parable, and its name is superstition.
And I said:
Master! Have I understood Thy parable aright; and do I divine correctly its meaning? For those who come to regard the non-essential as the essential and to act accordingly, verily are they tainted with superstition.
And He answered:
My belovèd, thou has spoken truth. Moreover, know that as the Enlightened One (the Buddha) said very long ago, “Each one must carry out his own salvation.”
Nevertheless, thou canst help thy brethren, and in helping them canst serve me. For know that the greatest and best of all help is that which inspires man to help himself.
And I answered Him:
O Master, to this end didst Thou come, but Man has failed to understand?
And He answered:
Again hast thou spoken truth; for verily I have been misunderstood, ay, from the very first I have been misunderstood, and my Mission also, which was to show humanity the way.
And although mighty fanes have been dedicated to me and my name is engraven in countless books, and that which men think to be my likeness is in manifold places, even so, those very nations who profess to believe in me have not tried my way.
And I have been misrepresented even by my own chroniclers, and portrayed as addicted to unrighteous anger and conceit and gross self-aggrandizement, and other unseemly things.
Yet in spite of ascribing to me these inordinations have my followers wanted to exalt me to the status of Deity, and have quarreled over the manner in which I should be worshipped.
Worship! Did I ever ask for worship or adulation and for a deluge of flatteries to be poured into mine ears?
Verily, I came to point the way to Peace and fraternity through the education of the heart and the will to love all beings.
And to that end I gave to my disciples and to the world at large, many precepts and sayings. But despite my warnings, man hath misinterpreted those sayings, and even made them a plea for all manner of evil things – of hatred and warfare and uncharitableness and bigotry, or at best, not wishing to follow them, hath called them unpractical and the dreams of a visionary.
Thus have my devotees illogically deemed me to be “the only begotten Son of God” and a representative of God on earth, and at the same time have so greatly doubted His Wisdom as to assume that He would propound Divine Laws and rules of conduct impossible of carrying out!
Basic, spiritual Truths did I reveal to man for his right guidance, so that security and peace should be his on earth; ay, more than that, for, because of my love for him, I wished him to have Life and have it more abundantly, as I did say erewhile; meaning thereby that One Life which is Pure Being, Intelligence and Bliss – and is ultimately for all.
But, alas for my Mission, and, alas, for my burning hopes. And, alas, for the nations, who, although professing to love me, have sought not to keep my commandments, and so brought about their own undoing.
Belief in me yet disbelief in my precepts! – a strange and paradoxical belief is that indeed.
And so, my son, because men have misunderstood me and the purport of my Mission, do I seek, in these times of danger and crises and tribulations, to bring back many things to remembrance …
I see it simply thus: If the ship of Christianity can somehow dislodge itself from the rocks upon which it has run - according to its own Founder - then all the better for mankind. But unless I mistake the meaning of the Master in this parable, whose frank discussion and commentary that follow would seem to leave little room for confusion ... unless I prefer to argue, with Christ Jesus, I find myself in the humble position of wondering - what might I do ... to play my small part in the Great Work?

And yet, with all presumptuousness, all self-assuredness, and apparently a better knowledge of Christ and Christianity than that of its very Founder, it seems the world still rushes forward ... to do precisely what the Master has described, as He looks on and laments. Hero-Worship. And so much for actually crossing that bridge. Ahhh, we do not need to bother - if we but believe, since our souls will "go to Heaven."

I think that those who would sincerely know the Master's further thoughts, and accounts, of the present state of Christianity ... as well as His efforts unto the present day, and looking well into the future - would seek to either get ahold of writings such as this, in its entirety, or in the very least, open themselves to the possibility, that through a glass darkly is not a death sentence, and need not characterize our every last remaining day upon this planet. For in death, you will not find what you expect - although truly, you will find that, and more. Not so easy will it be, however, to summon one's energies, open one's mouth, and speak wait, slow down, tell me that again! It will be necessary to get used to the policy of one who "never repeats himself," and the Feather of Maat will be found to be far lighter, than even dandelion fluff.

Perhaps the inspiration for Within You, Without You (The Beatles) is not so obscure after all ...
We were talking-about the space between us all
And the people-who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth-then it’s far too late-when they pass away.
We were talking-about the love we all could share-when we find it
To try our best to hold it there-with our love
With our love-we could save the world-if they only knew.
Try to realise it’s all within yourself
No-one else can make you change
And to see you’re really only very small,
And life flows within you and without you.
We were talking-about the love that’s gone so cold and the people,
Who gain the world and lose their soul-
They don’t know-they can’t see-are you one of them?
When you’ve seen beyond yourself-then you may find, peace of mind,
Is waiting there-
And the time will come when you see
We’re all one, and life flows on within you and without you.
As John later said, "How in the world you gonna see/Laughin' at fools like me(?)" ;)

In Love, and Light,

Andreas Bar-abbâ
 
No, let us "christians" be clear on this issue. God/GOD can do any blessed thing He/She/It wants to do. And we have absolutely no say in the matter. We can't tell God "no" (or I guess we can, for the lot of good it will do us). We can refuse to do anything...you are correct. But there is a price to be paid (such is freedom of will). Your poem means not much, to one who refuses to follow the will of God...particularly concerning the Gospel messages.

The boats and helicopter issue was about blind faith, absent common sense...you seem to have forgotten that, unless you consider those of certain faiths absent of the same?

You were using "Footsteps" as a point...:eek:

That was a mistake.

v/r

Q
 
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