Power of Magick?

Discussion in 'Magick' started by iBrian, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

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    No, I don't think you've missed the boat at all regarding using focus. Your example is a perfect example of how focus can be used.

    You might want to do some more reading about hypnosis, "peak states", and enlightenment as well. They are all intertwined closely with conscious use of focussed attention.

    John Horgan's book "Rational Mysticism" is an excellent survey of the topic of mysticism and enlightenment. And you might also enjoy Adam Crabtree's book "Trance Zero" as well, if you can find a copy.
     
  2. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    Peace to everyone here. That is why I came to this forum. I have questions, and I hope they do not offend. If they do, someone please tell me how I may ask them better the next time.

    Re: Gerald Gardner--is he not the founder of the more modern Wiccan movement? Please, I mean no offense to anyone. Are there not older roots? Dating back to perhaps the oral tradition of the Celts?

    Also, can anyone here tell me anything about Lady Gwen Thompson?

    And so, while I am asking, does anyone want to comment on their beliefs about the connection between the Celts, Wiccan, and Christians?

    It all does have to do with magick, does it not?

    I truly would welcome your responses--any and all.

    Thank you
    InLove
     
  3. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

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    Excellent questions -- and they deserve a thread of their own. Please jump to this new thread I just created and we can get into discussing them!
     
  4. Chalice

    Chalice I am the Grail

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    For me, in my own experience, magick is real. It has not mattered how I have approached it either, from a religious standpoint. I'm raised a Christian, have a minor in world religions, and have read up on Wicca, Druidism and so forth, and applied the principles I have learned to do spell casting on an elementary level. At first this was very scary for me. But I braved it and found that spell crafting and casting are really a very pointed effort at prayer, at least for me. Instead of calling out to the Divine that "I need help", the crafting of a spell forces me to write in rhyme, and designing a rhyming spell actually causes me to focus on what the actual problem is at its core; this focus also causes me to have to think of a "best solution" for my problem. Then when I select inanimate objects to represent my problem and it's solutions, I believe that at least on a limited level my subconscious is formulating a solution that I have somehow related to the concrete symbols. I can not scientifically "prove" whether these concrete symbols have any power or not - I don't see them float or glow or anything like that. They appear as normal as they did before I used them. However, after I craft the spell, I cast it - I set it up, I read the rhyming incantation - I always dedicate my spells to my God, The Trinity of Christianity, because that is where I am most comfortable. Things happen after I cast the spell - wierdly, amaizingly, things happen. I don't know if things might have happened without the spell, but I do know that nothing happened prior to casting it, as I waited and waited. The spell seems to be the catalyst that pushes things in the spirit world along. How does this compare to my prayer life? Well, before when I had a need, I would just ask God to fix it. Of course he did, but I didn't feel as interactive with Him. And therefore I worried alot more. Did He get the message? Was he paying attention? But by designing a spell, and being specific, I feel that I was able to present my cause to God in a better and more efficient way, causing the spirit realm, whatever goes on up there, to streamline an answer back to me and get the ball rolling. I really now feel that prayer is different from spell crafting and casting - the different fascets of prayer. Prayer is the worship and friendship one has with the Divine. Crafting/casting is working for a solution with the Divine. I have become closer to the divine, because I get to work along with the Divine as a partner, not just sit here worrying all the time. This does not conflict with my beliefs as a Christian either, because I am taught that through Christ I am a fellow priest with him - a co-worker, not equal, but very included. Instead of worshipping the Goddess, I feel married to Christ in the same way I am married to my earthly husband - I have a right and a duty to put my 2 cents in, and roll up my sleeves and help get the job done! I used to didn't feel that way. Because I am married to Christ, the God, I feel my position is that of Goddess. This is a great responsibility, and one I am not even sure I can handle. But what is expected from me in that position? What is the Goddess, or one in the Goddess position supposed to do for others, for God? That is a deep question. There is alot to do. I find that MAGICK works no matter what religion you are - it is not a religion, it is a proceedure for communicating with the Divine. For ME, I do not have to believe in a different religion than the one I am comfortable with in order to use magick and enjoy it's benefits. My world is completely magickal, and when I have a problem, I use Magick to communicate with and help my Deity to be proactive and to be solutions oriented. I still can not make things float or disappear (except for the stage magicians props I have purchased to entertain friends and family), but things really do happen. What kinds of things happen? Well, 2 years ago, two neighbors conspired to ignore me for months. Then on Halloween night they stood in my driveway. When I went to chat with them, they both upbraided me and told me that I needed to move my then 17 year old son out, as they didn't like where he parked and so forth. That really hurt my feelings, as they had no business assessing my family since they hadn't even taken the time of day to speak to me - and even if they had, it is none of their business. Well, that night I put out my casting hand and channeled all my hurt feelings and anger out toward each of their homes. I was very carefull not to say anything damaging as I did not want it to come back to me, but I said "may your own request be upon you, and may you find a better life in the process." One year to the DAY later AND TO THE HOUR, the very next Halloween, my husband came home from work and took the kids around the block. He came in and said, "you'll never guess what is going on?" (I was taken ill with the flu and could not go out, which made it look like I was ignoring them - a coincidence? I think not.) I asked "what?" and he told me that both homes had gotten a "For Sale" sign in the yard just that hour (the same hour that last year they had upbraided me). They both moved around Christmas time, which is basically impossible in the Houston Area, as the economy is slow anyway, and even slower at Christmas, yet they both were out of there before the year ended. That is magick - it just is. I have also concocted a money spell, and after doing it, money, and trips came my way...magick again. I will have to renew it soon, as I personally believe that the power of that spell gets weak over the year. I hve also used the Tarot to tell fortunes, and have found that I am never wrong. Most recently a friend's husband had a 4 month job loss and she came to me in tears about it. We read the Tarot on a friday am. The basic crux of the reading was that a woman would call with an out of state position for him, and though the pay would be lower than he was used to, the treatment of him at work would be much better (he had gone through the "Enron mess" and had lost a substantial amount of money - $500K). Friday night I had a very vivid dream and was shown her family packing a moving van with her husband standing there in a job-interview suit, supervising. The dream showed me the same scene three times, each time closer. I woke up with racing heart, sweating and panicky, and since it was not a scary dream, I guess my heart was racing because it was truely a psychic dream, and wrote it down, giving it to her in Church on Sunday. She completely disregarded it, because she was taken over by fear that what I did for her was "wrong". So she just played it down and I forgot about it. Monday at 9 am, she called - Her hsuband had gotten a call from a woman about an out of town job and he would fly out the next day. A week later she flew out with him and was offered less money, but the treatment was much better toward him. Within 4 weeks, he started his new job, and their house sold 3 months later, again in a slow economy, and the company paid to move them. So within 3 months her Tarot reading came completely true. That is MAGICK. I can not divorce magick from Christ because he did all that type of stuff too, and was supreme at it. I feel that he is behind all the magick that happens to me, and he is the way it gets "turned on and tuned in" - I just had to learn how to approach it. I have millions of other examples of how magick has happened in my life. Before I knew how to spell craft/cast, I prayed alot. 2 Summers ago I was very homesick, and cried alot about it. Out of the blue sky came the opportunity for me to take the kids and spend the last 2 summers in entirety back home! That is magick - there is no other way that that opportunity could have come up, and no other way that my husband would have consented to parting with us. But he got an out-of-town job, and was not home anyway, and had frequent flier tickets! Alot of the "free" trips I got I also count toward the money spell I did - and I got extra cash from him to spend as well. I can not discount these and many other things. Magick works and I believe in it.


    My definition of Magick is not to join up with some group, or switch religions. For me Magick is an art form, where you work with energy and spirit instead of paint and canvas. First you have to realize that the unseen world of spirit and energy is there and exists, in the same way that an artist acknowledges things they can use for art - some people use the obvious paint and canvas, or clay and a potter's wheel, but others use less obvious things, like plastic discards, and plants, and powdered minerals to color things. Then there is the least-obvious art medium of all - energy and spirit. Artists do not know it is there because you can not see it, you have to feel it. You design how you want your life to be and then you allow things to take place based on that concrete design and that incantation you concocted. You put all your emotions into designing it and saying it - you let that energy and that spirit flow out of you, and viola! things happen. I can not explain why any more than I can explain why someone who writes a novel gets on the best seller list, and another person's personal, unpublished letter touches another's heart so deeply. I can not explain why paintings in the art museaum touch the minds of millions, but the art of your kindergartner is the most precious thing in your own art collection - but it is all art and it is all energy and spirit, manipulated to bring change in the world. You can access energy and spirit and instead of applying them to canvas, you can apply them to life, and make changes that maybe aren't so visible, but are just as everlasting and just as profound. This is magick.
     
  5. livingintheraw

    livingintheraw Seeking Wisdom

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    Hi everyone. I'm new here and certainly not as intellectually adept about this subject as the rest of you. I do have an opinion on all of this and would like to share it with you. I have read most of your views, but, admittedly not eveyones, so, if this has already been mentioned I apologize.

    It is my view that you are all right. If you don't choose to believe in the ability to manipulate energy, then, it won't happen for you. If you get too involved intellectually in the mechanics of how it works, then you may loose sight of the spirit. But, whatever your perspective, your right. Things happen as you expect them to. Your world is as you choose it. It doesn't matter what anyone else says about a subject, if you aren't conveinced, it won't happen for you. Let's use the Lotto for example. No one really believes that they will win it. We all know someone will eventually, but, we don't really believe it will be us. We may get down on our knees and pray real hard, or, in some cases meditate. But, in the back of our minds there is that little voice that tells us it won't be us. We picture all the things we would do with the money. We use visualisation exercises like all of the self enriching books tells us to do, but, in the back of our minds it's that little voice that tells us it won't happen no matter how hard we try. We plead with our inner selves to believe it could be us, but, again that little voice still wispers no go. So, it doesn't happen for the majority of us. I do believe that if we could get past our self imprisionment in our illusion of reality we could acomplish anything we wish. If we did break free of our illusion this could look to those still stuck in their illusion as magick. Yes, I believe in free will, but, I don't think we exercise free will as often as we think we do if at all. Buying that new car against our partner's wishes is not free will. I'm still working on what free will is and am far from something definitive. But, I think if you ever figure out what free will is, a deffinition won't matter. I think we are always defining things we don't understand. I believe true understanding is knowing. We are in our infancy. Kind of like the world is flat scenario. All this stuff we call magick will be explained at some point. If we hate ourselves perceived bad things happen to us. If we love ourselves perceived good things happen to us. If we wonder why bad things happen to good people? Maybe they don't think that highly of themselves. Jesus performed miracles because people believed. Yogis' perform miracles because people believe. Believe in yourself. Don't doubt who you are and what you can accomplish. Magic, to me, is just a label for things we don't understand.

    I have a story that I would like to tell that actually happened to me. I met a friend for a lecture given by Dr. Michael Ryce. He challenges reality and is really good at reaching the mainstream. Anyway, my friend and I had driven ourselves seperately to the lecture. The lecture was basically about how time is an illusion, that sort of thing. We were going to meet at a restaurant afterwards for dinner. We followed each other out of the parking lot to the interstate. When we got onto the interstate he took off like a bat out of hell. It was swish and he was gone...I saw his headlights disappearing in front of me. I took my time because I don't like to speed and I knew the restaurant we were going. I knew he'd wait for me. When I got to the restaurant I looked at my watch and noticed I had made a half hour drive in about fifteen minutes. I didn't think anything about it then. I went inside and ran into some other friends and asked if they had seen Mike. They said, no. I looked all around the restaurant and he wasn't there. I figured he must have stoped off somewhere. Our mutual friends made room for us and I joined them. Ten minutes later Mike strolls in. He looks at me all surprised and shocked to see me there. I asked him where he'd been, if he'd stopped off somewhere on the way. He said, no. He went straight there. We double checked our routes and we went the exact same way. He went 85 mpr and I went 60 yet I was there before him. After the Michael Ryce meeting I had felt really intune. I was totally buzzing from from the lecture as I drove to dinner. I can't explain what happened and neither can Mike. Majick? Or for a moment could it be that my perception of time had altered, even if it was for just a few minutes, and I put myself where I wanted to be in a different way. I have no explanations.

    Thanks for letting be a part of your discussion.
     
  6. killmyprince

    killmyprince New Member

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    Hello everyone, I'm new here, and thought that I'd give it a go.

    As a chaote and as someone who is highly influenced by the work of Phil Hine, I don't believe that there is one answer to that question: what is magick. We do know that magick is "Change in Conformity with Will," but that definition tells us nothing about how exactly magick works.

    Phil Hine believes that there have been many different ways to explain how magick it works throughout history and that not any one of them is specifically wrong, and yet, not entirely correct. The truth is that there are many truths in reference to magick. Magick can work like an appeal form, where you basically write up a complaint and address it to the deities. Magick can be a totally psychological occurence, where the entire world is a perception, so why not just change the world by changing the perception. Magick can be riding a cosmic wave, where you simply consciously catch a cosmic current of energy to obtain your Will.

    There are uses to all of these modes of thought, but there is no way that any of these offer a final solution to the question of how magick works.

    Although many people seem to ponder this a lot and are very caught up in finding which is the correct approach, I enjoy this diversity of method and I often switch around between the three (and others, even). Each method of thought gives your magick a different edge, and I believe that magick should first be about pragmatism and second about morality and theory.

    Finally, I will have to say that magick is not a science. It is the lingering probability, possibility, and uncertainty in the Universe. It is a string of unlikely coincidences. All we really do know, I think, about magick is that when we do one thing, another thing that we like happens. There is no correlation between the two, but it works, and that should be a good reason to continue.

    My father once broke the camera, but found that hitting it three times and blowing on the lens four times fixed it temporarily. We don't know why that helped. We didn't know why it didn't work when you only hit it twice and blew on it three times. We didn't know why it didn't work when mom did it. All that we really know is that it worked, and that, is plenty reason to continue.

    I have the feeling that we will never understand magick.
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Earlier posts referred to focus, hypnotism, buddhist and hindu thinking on the subject. For the life of me I don't understand the difference.

    Whether we talk about the above or the quantum metaphysics thought or Jesus and the wine, loaves and fishes... other than putting it in a different box..

    what is the difference?

    (trying not to get into a mine's right and your's is wrong....what we are talking about is prayer/meditation/focus and outcomes, yes?)

    namaste,
     
  8. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    WHKieth I stand alongside you and think you are hitting the nail slap bang on its head. All non-fanciful Magik can be quite simply be explained by the manipulation , concious or unconcious, of the Zero Point Field, a term to describe the quantum matrix. In prayer we access this field in the same way as an individual attempts to create magik. Prayers and 'spells' do not always work though and I offer a simple explanation why not. You are not the only person trying to manipulate events.....you have competition. Perhaps the extent to which you believe in yourself gives you the edge over your competitors. Perhaps not. But I am a believer in the old maxim 'Practice makes perfect'.
    And WHKieth if you are looking for a proof reader/critic for you work I would love to offer you my help.

    EDIT PS; Chalice you are an inspiration !!!
     
  9. Anthony

    Anthony New Member

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    Hey Brian,

    I have read the other quotes, but no one seems to answer your topic directly.
    As it stands, so far today's Magick does not differ with ancient Magick, in that it only works by slight of hand or simple illusion to deceive intended on lookers or victim. However there happens to exist the power of the spoken word, and the reason this is has to do with Faith. This is one of the reasons that Lord says to put no faith in things like Magick and only in the Lord. The only evidence that exists seems to be tied to rescue efforts and extreme cases of survival. So therefore the answer to your questin is Faith.
     
  10. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

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    Sorry to disagree -- the type of magic that involves sleight of hand and deceiving an audience is not the type that is spelled with a "k" at the end. The deceptive magic is just stage magic like card tricks or making a person appear to levitate or disappear.

    The type of magick we're talking about here is usually spelled with a "k" at the end to distinguish it from the stage-magic type. This is the magick that priests use when they perform the eucharist and proclaim that the bread and the wine are the body and blood of the saviour. This is the type of magick that is done when a person who is filled with the spirit lays on hands and heals a person's illness. This is the type of magick when you pray and pray for something and it actually happens apparently by a miracle.

    Magick like this does have a large element of faith involved and many say that it works by a Divine agency, or at least by forces that are not normally within typical human control.
     
  11. gp1628

    gp1628 Old Man

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    Here is my humble take on the subject.
    Magick absolutely works, and science has proven it many times. The problem with that is that when science proves something it tends to rename it and put it onto the science side of the fence. Salves, lotions, potions,
    bio-feedback, meditation, hypnosis, power of positive thinking, magnetism, aroma therapy, chiropracty. There are hundreds of examples of things that the ancient wise ones of the village could have used which were as real then as they are now.

    One example. The wise one lives in the forest and knows the plants so someone goes to her for a love spell. She says "wash your body with this" and "take this before meeting them" and just before you see them say 3 times "I will be seen in all of my glory". Nowadays a scientist would belittle it as saying "That was just a body scrub with flower scents, and a mood heightener drug or maybe aphrodisiac, and the power of positive thinking". Where the scientists have a problem eradicating belief in magic is that their science does not work as well. Even if you convice someone of the scientific explanation very few people are able to muster as much faith in themselves as an outside force.

    Prayer: say 3 hail mary's and you will be absolved and feel better about yourself. Your life will improve.

    Magic: say "life is natural circle and everything moves on" 3 times and you will feel better about your life. Your mood will improve."

    Science: Wake up each morning and say 3 times "I am a powerful person in charge of my life" and you find yourself tackling things better. (isnt it interesting that so many power-of-positive-thinking use "say three times"?)

    Personally Ive never been convinced WHY I should care why it works. I know that it does and that it works better than the scientific version.

    Gandalf Parker
    (yes thats my real name)
     
  12. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

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    I like the idea of magic as a craft. I'm a craftsman, and I often muse that what I do seems like magic to the un handy. My wife is a high end hair stylist. Her craft seems like magic to me! I do think that we can, to a large extent, craft our reality. Working with materials, shaping them to a purpose, teaches us how to craft reality. Or something...

    Chris
     
  13. gp1628

    gp1628 Old Man

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    I see previous mentions of quantum theory.

    The new theory of the beginning of everything in Quantum Physics involves two "realities" (called membranes or just branes) touch. Like a pin hole in a balloon, a huge influx of matter and energy surged into the empty brane (ours) causing what used to be called the Big Bang. But the big bang is no longer a huge ebb and flow, shrink then explode then shrink again theory.

    There are a few things there of interest to us. For one thing, Quantum Physics now blows away all of the scientific disproving which relied upon "no matter or energy can be created or destroyed, it can only be converted". While that still is considered to be true there were many things which were proven as impossible because we failed to find a source for any matter or energy to cause it. Now we have a new source which we are not able (yet) to measure.

    What if science proves that it can be tapped by specific sonic frequencies in a pattern. Or by specific hand motions. Or even by mental energies. I am not offering these as an answer. I am only pointing out that quantum theories are worth looking into.

    OffTopic: not appropriate to this post but I would love to see the famous painting of God with his finger outstretched to Adam be redone with his finger poking a hole in the membrane. And there is also an interesting conversation to be had about QT's "10 dimensions plus 1". If we are 4 dimensional (x,y,z spatial plus time) and our understanding makes us totally non-understandable to 3d creatures (animals), who cannot be fathomed by 2d (microbes), and down to 1d (plants and non-moving micro life)... then going the other direction to 5d, 6d, even 10d might provide interesting material to discussions of spirits, angels, ghosts, etc.

    Gandalf Parker
    --
    Reality is the name we put on the folder where we store everything
    which we understand. That does not mean that things outside of the folder
    are not real. They just are not part of our reality.
     
  14. lover454

    lover454 New Member

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    I just want to write that I believe anything is possible
     
  15. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    All things being equal... that which is left, however improbable, must be possible.
     
  16. lover454

    lover454 New Member

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    to Quahom1 I agree with you
     
  17. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercur├Žn

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    Killmyprince is the closest to my understanding of Magick.
    Magick is causing change in the objective universe by way of the subjective universe, through the Will, simple as that.
    Some of the finest acts of Magick occur in the Advertising field, Politics, and Religion.
    There are no special incantations that will create a physical change by themself.
     
  18. Hermes

    Hermes Zos Kia Cultus

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    See my brief comments in blue....
     
  19. Hermes

    Hermes Zos Kia Cultus

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    My understanding is that true magic comes from integrating and harmonizing you visible and invisible selves to perfection. There are three realms of a person, in one perspective (some delineate it to seven or more). Physical, Mental, Spiritual. All this must be attainable and controllable by the magician. This is the hermetic science, the mentalist's chalice etc. This is incredibly difficult and explained in detail by Franz Bardon and his followers Rawn Clark (should you seek further details)

    In my opinion just pure positive thinking, (Law of attraction) is pseudo magic, and while attainable with more widely and easily that is NOT TRUE magic.
     

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