"The Path"

Jeannot

Jeannot
Messages
165
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
East Coast US
THE PATH

The original disciples of Jesus did not call themselves Christians, but followers of the Way, or the Path. (Greek, hodos).

After Jesus restores sight to Bartimaeus in Mark 10:52, he tells him,

"’Go. Your trust (or belief) has saved you.’ And Bartimaeus followed Jesus on the Path. (en te hodo)" And throughout the Book of Acts we find references to "the Way."

In the non-canonical gospel of Thomas, Jesus says "I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."

My thesis is that Jesus came to point out to us the "Way," the path to "salvation."

A perfectly acceptable reading of the Bartimaeus story is that Jesus opened his eyes to his vocation, his calling – indeed the calling of everyone. Bartimaeus was enlightened. He knew what he must do, so he stopped standing still, and started moving in the along the path that Jesus had indicated.

Like Zoroaster or Buddha, Jesus spent the first part of his life developing insights from observation. Then, like them, he shared them with those around him.

It's interesting that Jesus chose not to write a book. One wonders, if he wanted to share his insights, why didn't he do so? Many wish he had.

One possible answer is that he realized the problem of entrusting what he had to teach to a book. He saw how the TaNaKh, the Jewish scriptures were a two-edged sword: they contained the truth, but at the same time could easily be enshrined as a sacred object in themselves, thus defeating their purpose.

He did, of course, quote from them. But not always accurately, and often to give his own spin to the accepted reading. "He taught as one having authority, not like the scribes and Pharisees."

The scribes were scholars and interpreters of the Law, the Torah. They pored over scripture by night and day. Jesus probably at one time did this himself. But he moved beyond the Book. He saw how a book could congeal and freeze the truth. Since the truth was a living truth, which should be made active in the lives of men, Jesus saw that a book could go only so far.

Reading a map is one thing. Making the journey is quite another.

Jesus, like Zoroaster and the Buddha, came to shed light on the Path. They said that the path is both interior and exterior. They said that there are a million obstacles along the way. They also taught that evil is a perversion of the good. Pleasure is good, but dwelt in for its own sake, or for too long, becomes evil.

Strangely – or maybe not so strangely – religion itself can be a major obstacle along the way. Dogma, for example, congeals the truth so that it is no longer a living truth but only an abstract proposition to which one is asked to give assent. This is not the Way, but an exit from the Way.

Setting the teacher up as an object of worship is perhaps the most insidious method of foreclosing or short-circuiting the demands and rigors of the Way. One way to disregard someone is to put him on a pedestal. To worship the teacher is a device to avoid having to live his teaching.

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

Books like the Rig-Veda or the Judaeo-Christian scriptures can function like a road map. The problem is that they're like those old-fashioned maps, with all kind of sea monsters and fanciful figures depicted. And often with inaccurate geography.

The problem is further complicated by the fact that there is no one map for everyone. So the path of wisdom would seem to be to read the maps – not depending on just one – and then to find one's own way. Each person, in a sense must blaze their own trail. There are many false teachers who would have you believe that their trail is the way for you.

And the Way is never-ending: "They who eat Me hunger still, and they who drink Me still thirst."

But there's another way to look at this: "You would not seek Me if you had not already found Me."
 
I love it. Nice contemplations and I totally agree. (or you can actually correct me if you feel I'm tangential to what you were stating)

Jesus did not come to be worshipped, but by following his "path" he teaches us actions that lead us to the understanding that "I and the father are one"

He read the same texts as those around him, studied the same stories, hence why more and more I feel that we can find our way home, through the Old Testament alone, or through the Vedas, or the Sutras, or the Tao te Ching....there are many ways to find the Path, as Christians, Jesus just happens to be our elder brother and wayshower.

He blazed a trail for those that needed one. For this I give thanks.
 
wil said:
I love it. Nice contemplations and I totally agree. (or you can actually correct me if you feel I'm tangential to what you were stating)

Jesus did not come to be worshipped, but by following his "path" he teaches us actions that lead us to the understanding that "I and the father are one"

He read the same texts as those around him, studied the same stories, hence why more and more I feel that we can find our way home, through the Old Testament alone, or through the Vedas, or the Sutras, or the Tao te Ching....there are many ways to find the Path, as Christians, Jesus just happens to be our elder brother and wayshower.

He blazed a trail for those that needed one. For this I give thanks.

Indeed!
 
I've read on the 'new thought' concept of Jesus and "in his name."

It is read as 'in his nature' or 'in his way' as it is customary to name land, cities, wells, people based on their attributes, and a name means a lot more than just a name...similar to why Moses asked what do I call you, as the nature of the response would provide him insights as to whom he was speaking.

The 'new thought' is that it is not upto Jesus to save us, but for us to save ourselves....or the reality that he already has saved us, but for us to see, that by his name, his way, his nature, should we decide to follow...

Seek first...lovely stuff.
 
wil said:
I've read on the 'new thought' concept of Jesus and "in his name."

It is read as 'in his nature' or 'in his way' as it is customary to name land, cities, wells, people based on their attributes, and a name means a lot more than just a name...similar to why Moses asked what do I call you, as the nature of the response would provide him insights as to whom he was speaking.

The 'new thought' is that it is not upto Jesus to save us, but for us to save ourselves....or the reality that he already has saved us, but for us to see, that by his name, his way, his nature, should we decide to follow...

Seek first...lovely stuff.
Hang on a sec. That was an excellent post Jeannot!

Now Wil: I've heard the "in Jesus' name" incantation a million times, and I know it's use is connected to the text that says, basically, "whatever you ask in my name I will do." But when I was ten I asked, in Jesus' name, for a pony that I never got. I think that "in Jesus' name" means "for the cause of Jesus." And of course, the cause of Jesus is to turn the status quo on its head and love our enemies. I don't know if I can do that, but I won't be asking for a pony again!

Chris
 
Namaste China, but as the thinking goes, if you asked in Jesus' nature, in his way, you would have asked from the place of knowing, from allowing it to happen, from acceptance of all that is.

If you were to seek first the kingdom, you'd have a plethora of ponies.

But if you ask from a position of lack....lack stays.

Tis an abundant universe...plenty of ponies out there, didja make a place for the pony first?
 
All good points here, however (don't you hate that), there is one point that seems to have been ignored. Jesus may have come to blaze the trail and put us on the right path or way, but then He quite clearly stated that He WAS the way. If I recall correctly, it is something like "I am the light and the life and the way..."

Seems to me that He is saying He isn't pointing the way for us to go, He is the way for us to go...

In other words, not "go forth along the path I've pointed out", but rather "come to me", and "no one gets to the Father but through Me"...

Interesting thoughts all. ;)

v/r

Q
 
wil said:
I've read on the 'new thought' concept of Jesus and "in his name."

It is read as 'in his nature' or 'in his way' as it is customary to name land, cities, wells, people based on their attributes, and a name means a lot more than just a name...similar to why Moses asked what do I call you, as the nature of the response would provide him insights as to whom he was speaking.

The 'new thought' is that it is not upto Jesus to save us, but for us to save ourselves....or the reality that he already has saved us, but for us to see, that by his name, his way, his nature, should we decide to follow...

Seek first...lovely stuff.

To complete the thought: "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added to you."

When Jesus sent out the Twelve, then the Seventy, that's what they were doing. They were not to take anything with them, but when they got back, they reported that they lacked nothing. The key to the Kingdom is sharing.

Jesus took over John's message that the KIngdom was imminent, "within reach." We are asked to reach out and touch it.
 
Quahom1 said:
All good points here, however (don't you hate that), there is one point that seems to have been ignored. Jesus may have come to blaze the trail and put us on the right path or way, but then He quite clearly stated that He WAS the way. If I recall correctly, it is something like "I am the light and the life and the way..."
Don't have the exact scripture...but along the lines of 'everything I have done you can do and more...as I go onto the father...'
 
wil said:
Don't have the exact scripture...but along the lines of 'everything I have done you can do and more...as I go onto the father...'

(lol) yes...in His name...

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
In other words, not "go forth along the path I've pointed out", but rather "come to me", and "no one gets to the Father but through Me"...

Obviously, this passage is open to interpretation. I don't think Jesus meant for people literally to trample or walk over his body like a path is trodden. That would be a serious problem for us late-comers; Jesus' physical body has been gone for some time now.

Or for those who see the eucharist as the actual body of Christ, I don't think they are meant to lay down a pathway of eucharist bread and wine to walk on. Nor can one literally enter Jesus' body to get to God. Thus, the whole thing is open to interpretation. To use the pattern of life Jesus set for us as our path would seem the most reasonable interpretation, in my opinion.

I like the idea about not putting the teacher on a pedestal for worship but to use his life and teachings as the way or path. Just worshipping does seem awfully much like the lazy man's way out. Perhaps it is possible for some people to both worship and use Jesus' life and teachings as the way.
 
Jeannot said:
THE PATH

The original disciples of Jesus did not call themselves Christians, but followers of the Way, or the Path. (Greek, hodos).

After Jesus restores sight to Bartimaeus in Mark 10:52, he tells him,

"’Go. Your trust (or belief) has saved you.’ And Bartimaeus followed Jesus on the Path. (en te hodo)" And throughout the Book of Acts we find references to "the Way."

In the non-canonical gospel of Thomas, Jesus says "I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."

My thesis is that Jesus came to point out to us the "Way," the path to "salvation."

A perfectly acceptable reading of the Bartimaeus story is that Jesus opened his eyes to his vocation, his calling – indeed the calling of everyone. Bartimaeus was enlightened. He knew what he must do, so he stopped standing still, and started moving in the along the path that Jesus had indicated.

Like Zoroaster or Buddha, Jesus spent the first part of his life developing insights from observation. Then, like them, he shared them with those around him.

It's interesting that Jesus chose not to write a book. One wonders, if he wanted to share his insights, why didn't he do so? Many wish he had.

One possible answer is that he realized the problem of entrusting what he had to teach to a book. He saw how the TaNaKh, the Jewish scriptures were a two-edged sword: they contained the truth, but at the same time could easily be enshrined as a sacred object in themselves, thus defeating their purpose.

He did, of course, quote from them. But not always accurately, and often to give his own spin to the accepted reading. "He taught as one having authority, not like the scribes and Pharisees."

The scribes were scholars and interpreters of the Law, the Torah. They pored over scripture by night and day. Jesus probably at one time did this himself. But he moved beyond the Book. He saw how a book could congeal and freeze the truth. Since the truth was a living truth, which should be made active in the lives of men, Jesus saw that a book could go only so far.

Reading a map is one thing. Making the journey is quite another.

Jesus, like Zoroaster and the Buddha, came to shed light on the Path. They said that the path is both interior and exterior. They said that there are a million obstacles along the way. They also taught that evil is a perversion of the good. Pleasure is good, but dwelt in for its own sake, or for too long, becomes evil.

Strangely – or maybe not so strangely – religion itself can be a major obstacle along the way. Dogma, for example, congeals the truth so that it is no longer a living truth but only an abstract proposition to which one is asked to give assent. This is not the Way, but an exit from the Way.

Setting the teacher up as an object of worship is perhaps the most insidious method of foreclosing or short-circuiting the demands and rigors of the Way. One way to disregard someone is to put him on a pedestal. To worship the teacher is a device to avoid having to live his teaching.

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

Books like the Rig-Veda or the Judaeo-Christian scriptures can function like a road map. The problem is that they're like those old-fashioned maps, with all kind of sea monsters and fanciful figures depicted. And often with inaccurate geography.

The problem is further complicated by the fact that there is no one map for everyone. So the path of wisdom would seem to be to read the maps – not depending on just one – and then to find one's own way. Each person, in a sense must blaze their own trail. There are many false teachers who would have you believe that their trail is the way for you.

And the Way is never-ending: "They who eat Me hunger still, and they who drink Me still thirst."

But there's another way to look at this: "You would not seek Me if you had not already found Me."

the huge difference is jesus is the light and the truth over all creation for eternity, whereas buddha or whoever is just an limited light to justify what man whats to get out of until he dies. jesus never inaccurately quoted scripture, for he is the source of it. he fulfilled scripture and told us what its true meaning is, what is really meant to say.
 
Jeannot said:
THE PATH

The original disciples of Jesus did not call themselves Christians, but followers of the Way, or the Path. (Greek, hodos).

After Jesus restores sight to Bartimaeus in Mark 10:52, he tells him,

"’Go. Your trust (or belief) has saved you.’ And Bartimaeus followed Jesus on the Path. (en te hodo)" And throughout the Book of Acts we find references to "the Way."

In the non-canonical gospel of Thomas, Jesus says "I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."

My thesis is that Jesus came to point out to us the "Way," the path to "salvation."

A perfectly acceptable reading of the Bartimaeus story is that Jesus opened his eyes to his vocation, his calling – indeed the calling of everyone. Bartimaeus was enlightened. He knew what he must do, so he stopped standing still, and started moving in the along the path that Jesus had indicated.

Like Zoroaster or Buddha, Jesus spent the first part of his life developing insights from observation. Then, like them, he shared them with those around him.

It's interesting that Jesus chose not to write a book. One wonders, if he wanted to share his insights, why didn't he do so? Many wish he had.

One possible answer is that he realized the problem of entrusting what he had to teach to a book. He saw how the TaNaKh, the Jewish scriptures were a two-edged sword: they contained the truth, but at the same time could easily be enshrined as a sacred object in themselves, thus defeating their purpose.

He did, of course, quote from them. But not always accurately, and often to give his own spin to the accepted reading. "He taught as one having authority, not like the scribes and Pharisees."

The scribes were scholars and interpreters of the Law, the Torah. They pored over scripture by night and day. Jesus probably at one time did this himself. But he moved beyond the Book. He saw how a book could congeal and freeze the truth. Since the truth was a living truth, which should be made active in the lives of men, Jesus saw that a book could go only so far.

Reading a map is one thing. Making the journey is quite another.

Jesus, like Zoroaster and the Buddha, came to shed light on the Path. They said that the path is both interior and exterior. They said that there are a million obstacles along the way. They also taught that evil is a perversion of the good. Pleasure is good, but dwelt in for its own sake, or for too long, becomes evil.

Strangely – or maybe not so strangely – religion itself can be a major obstacle along the way. Dogma, for example, congeals the truth so that it is no longer a living truth but only an abstract proposition to which one is asked to give assent. This is not the Way, but an exit from the Way.

Setting the teacher up as an object of worship is perhaps the most insidious method of foreclosing or short-circuiting the demands and rigors of the Way. One way to disregard someone is to put him on a pedestal. To worship the teacher is a device to avoid having to live his teaching.

"If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

Books like the Rig-Veda or the Judaeo-Christian scriptures can function like a road map. The problem is that they're like those old-fashioned maps, with all kind of sea monsters and fanciful figures depicted. And often with inaccurate geography.

The problem is further complicated by the fact that there is no one map for everyone. So the path of wisdom would seem to be to read the maps – not depending on just one – and then to find one's own way. Each person, in a sense must blaze their own trail. There are many false teachers who would have you believe that their trail is the way for you.

And the Way is never-ending: "They who eat Me hunger still, and they who drink Me still thirst."

But there's another way to look at this: "You would not seek Me if you had not already found Me."
the huge difference is jesus is the light and the truth over all creation for eternity. jesus never inaccurately quoted scripture, for he is the source of it. he fulfilled scripture and told us what its true meaning is, what is really meant to say.
 
Jeannot said:
Setting the teacher up as an object of worship is perhaps the most insidious method of foreclosing or short-circuiting the demands and rigors of the Way. One way to disregard someone is to put him on a pedestal. To worship the teacher is a device to avoid having to live his teaching.

Jeannot, I love what you write. There is a story - I think I read it in one of Mike Riddell's books - about a traveller who returned from a land of great wonders, and told everyone about it, and how to get there. He even drew a map.

After he left, there was great excitement. Tales were told of the traveller and the things he had said. Buildings and art works were commissioned to honour him. His map was placed in a glass case inside a great palace so everyone could see it, and imagine what marvels that land must contain.

No-one ever went there.
 
Virtual_Cliff said:
Jeannot, I love what you write. There is a story - I think I read it in one of Mike Riddell's books - about a traveller who returned from a land of great wonders, and told everyone about it, and how to get there. He even drew a map.

After he left, there was great excitement. Tales were told of the traveller and the things he had said. Buildings and art works were commissioned to honour him. His map was placed in a glass case inside a great palace so everyone could see it, and imagine what marvels that land must contain.

No-one ever went there.

As someone said, "You can't say that Christianity has failed. It's just that it's never really been tried."
 
RubySera_Martin said:
Obviously, this passage is open to interpretation. I don't think Jesus meant for people literally to trample or walk over his body like a path is trodden. That would be a serious problem for us late-comers; Jesus' physical body has been gone for some time now.

Or for those who see the eucharist as the actual body of Christ, I don't think they are meant to lay down a pathway of eucharist bread and wine to walk on. Nor can one literally enter Jesus' body to get to God. Thus, the whole thing is open to interpretation. To use the pattern of life Jesus set for us as our path would seem the most reasonable interpretation, in my opinion.

I like the idea about not putting the teacher on a pedestal for worship but to use his life and teachings as the way or path. Just worshipping does seem awfully much like the lazy man's way out. Perhaps it is possible for some people to both worship and use Jesus' life and teachings as the way.

I don't see how there could be any other interpretation to a Christian. We follow Christ and His ways, and His examples, and we try to be like Him.

I am after all in my own dad, and he is in me...and that is not hard to understand. Or put another way, I am my father's son.

We are to be Christ like, follow His lead, act as He would act, try to love as He loves.

v/r

Q
 
Kindest Regards, China Cat and Wil!

If I may interject on this one point...
wil said:
Namaste China, but as the thinking goes, if you asked in Jesus' nature, in his way, you would have asked from the place of knowing, from allowing it to happen, from acceptance of all that is.

If you were to seek first the kingdom, you'd have a plethora of ponies.

But if you ask from a position of lack....lack stays.

Tis an abundant universe...plenty of ponies out there, didja make a place for the pony first?

I have heard both sentiments before, those of China Cat and this here from Wil. If I might offer an alternate view: "if you asked in Jesus' nature, in his way, you would have asked from the place of knowing," and you would have understood it was not G-d's will for you to have a pony at that time, perhaps never. Unanswered prayers are an answer unto themselves. That is why we are asked to pray that G-d's will be done, not our own. We do not tell G-d, G-d tells us. Sometimes we don't particularly like to hear what it is He has to say.
 
juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, China Cat and Wil!

If I may interject on this one point...


I have heard both sentiments before, those of China Cat and this here from Wil. If I might offer an alternate view: "if you asked in Jesus' nature, in his way, you would have asked from the place of knowing," and you would have understood it was not G-d's will for you to have a pony at that time, perhaps never. Unanswered prayers are an answer unto themselves. That is why we are asked to pray that G-d's will be done, not our own. We do not tell G-d, G-d tells us. Sometimes we don't particularly like to hear what it is He has to say.
Very nice, sparked some more memories. One being one that I take as a Joke....'all prayers are answered....sometimes the answer is no.'

The other is the contemplation of the pony...When we pray we don't change the nature of G-d, we change our perspective. It is us that moves, and I think when we pray for a 'pony' we are actually requesting the feeling the 'pony' gives us. That G-d provides to our needs and desires in his fashion. Could be the 'pony' is not to our highest good, could be we obtained the feeling that the pony provided from the answered prayer but weren't aware...CC not really talking about your pony any more....but mine.
 
Back
Top