Is Islam actually peaceful?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by juantoo3, Jul 11, 2006.

  1. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    Salaam Allahikum,
    Big claim to make, seems a large consensus of people agree they are, along with hundreds if not thousands of scholars. May I ask what qualification you have to make this claim. I know a guy who has studied the Quran from 8 years old till now (30). and his father is a Sheikh who studied his whole life. Starting with Quran.

    Saying there is no Shariah, though, is odd. Since Shariah is the law based in the Quran. There are additions to Shariah based on Hadith (which if you are adamant did not come from the Prophet (PBUH) you can simply ignore that portion and still maintain a good life), which are more constricting, but not to an oppressive way.

    Hadith and Sunnah aren't accepted by Shi'a either, at least not a majority of Hadith. So I must ask, how do you pray Salaat? Where did you learn that?

    Lastly, try not to be so combative, you might find people are more receptive to your point, and Insha'Allah you might learn a thing or 2 yourself.
     
  2. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I agree whole heartedly with this though.
     
  3. socialleper

    socialleper New Member

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    I managed to lock myself out of the site so I wasn't able to respond immediately.

    The short version of my response is that the need for proof doesn't fall on me, it falls on people making the wild claims. If I say "the sky is blue" it isn't my job to prove it because anyone with properly working eyes can see that the daytime sky is, by and large, blue. They can say its different colors based on the weather, or black at night, but if someone was to say "No it is purple everywhere all the time" the burden of proof is on them.
    The same goes for religious doctrine and scripture. If you are the one saying that your sky buddy made an illiterate guy perfectly remember all that stuff, pass it along verbally to a bunch of people perfectly, and then write it down perfectly, that is an amazing fish tale. Of course one that believes in the perfection of that scripture is going to forward the notion that it is perfect, because if it isn't, then their entire lives are based around an old fairy tale. That alone makes those claims suspect.
    God doesn't have a printing press. All these books are always written by humans and told by humans. If the Abrahamic god was everything and a bag of chips as the practitioners of those faiths claim, there wouldn't be so many versions, so many glaring discrepancies, and so much violence between between those versions. What's more, the god of those scriptures would come off far less flawed.

    Now, what does that have to do with the OPs question: Is Islam actually peaceful? By scripture, not really. By tradition, not really. By historical deeds, not really. Does it only bring war? Not only as much as other religions do, which is still quite a bit. It shouldn't be singled out as being THE most violent, but that doesn't excuse its need for reformation and modernization.
     
  4. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    the real issue with what you are asking is that if given a valid proven point, most if not all people in your position will just dismiss what I/we have to say as a lie/conjure. I made the claim it is not violent, by any measure, other than media Bias. if you don't feel there is a burden for you to show me how/ where the violence is displayed in scripture/tradition/history (religiously speaking of course, bypassing those who aren't following the laws such as the Saudi royal family) then I have no burden to claim any more than it is simply non-violent in any of those aspects. if you wish to display what you perceive as violence by creed, or errors or inconsistencies, please do so...
     
  5. A Cup Of Tea

    A Cup Of Tea Well-Known Member

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    All you have done is stated that you think humans aren't very peaceful, that point was to prove that Islam is a violent religion.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    <sets needle on record>

    Humans are becoming more peaceful with each passing millenia and we are currently the most peaceful we have ever been...the sky is purple and we only have to open our eyes to see...

    But yes, religions and foolish partiocity and loyalty to royalty and greed are our major causes of strife
     
  7. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    The effects of looking at a blue sky through rose colored glasses!:p Sorry mate... couldn't resist.
     
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  8. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    I think it's a bit of a stretch to try to sum it up so shortly. In Islam, at least by majority, we see no human as a lesser or greater in importance. Unless that person is a prophet or messenger, they are equal and neither is "better". This is the reason the literal way you stated it is wrong. What you were implying however is that we feel our way is the best. Which is true. It would be illogical for someone to follow a path they didn't think was the most correct.
    This sentiment can be true. due to the above stated issues, Allah has provided reasons for us to be peaceful, even while believing our path is better. Not only is the way provided, it is required in his law.
    FIFY

    And the issue still remains that you have given no reason for discussion. no proof that Muslims, Christians, or Jews (etc) are violent by religious code. Nor have you made any significant claim that would warrant a rebuttal in the form of proof. you haven't given a shred of evidence, just opinion
     
  9. BigJoeNobody

    BigJoeNobody Professional Argument Attractor

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    again I would add "Some of" to the major causes.

    Brilliant :cool:
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    No apologies required...

    I know the folks who look at statistics with blindfolds... They see life and the future as quite dark and bleak....others who use blinders....and they are very narrow minded...and those that only stare in the rearview mirror whining about what was...

    I've got a drawer full of rose colored glasses...buy them bulk by the gross...
     
  11. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    And you look at the world thru tinted glasses that do not reveal it as it is. This is better how?
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Lol.. The tinted glasses is a joke to appease the deniers of all variety...
     
  13. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    I really hate it when I am too dense to see the joke for what it is. o_O
     
  14. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    Does that include deniers of the reality of violence in our society?
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I don't know who denies the violence in today's society... It is those very statistics that are used to compare the violence of the past and allows us to know how much more peaceful and civilised we are becoming.,.
     
  16. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    Endless supply of those glasses eh? Speaking of statistics. Baltimore's on it's way to an all time high murder rate. 320 at last count and the year's not over yet! I doubt the families of the victims take much comfort in the fact that statistics say the planet as a whole is more peaceful and civilized now then in the past.
     
  17. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Last few years more Americans in US have died from gunshot wounds by children than from Islamic terrorists...

    More Americans have died in the past 20 years on foriegn soils killing Muslims than from Muslims here...including 9/11.. Ie. If we had only stayed home...

    And at 22 suicides a day for veterans the toll for engaging in vengence rather than peace is not only also 50% more than died on 911 every year...it continues...every day...every year...
     
  18. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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    Is that supposed to be an argument for how peaceful the world is now?
     
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  19. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I don't believe anyone is claiming the world is peaceful now...just more that the past few generations have been more peaceful than any known in history...
     
  20. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Moderator

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