12 planets

Discussion in 'Science and the Universe' started by wil, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    12 planets

    12 signs of the Zodiac

    12 tribes of Isreal

    12 disciples

    Tis so funny the astrolgers, not astronomers, have been saying for years that we will eventually find 12 planets....and the argument of recent has been to define what is a planet...and the resulting consensus is...if we don't define it as 12 planets, we'll have to get rid of Pluto as a planet and bring us down to 8...can't get rid of Pluto, have to add its moon, because it is really a dual system....tis all too funny.
     
  2. Abogado del Diablo

    Abogado del Diablo Ferally Decent

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    This another funny glimpse at the way language works. Like this, from a recent article on the new definition of "planet" that is being proposed:

    Talk about the Divine Logos - instantaneous creation of three whole planets merely by the power of a word!:)
     
  3. Chezz

    Chezz Established Member

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    nibiru?
     
  4. jiii

    jiii ...

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    LOL...I guess when you've found everything you can with a telescope you have to find new stuff somehow...
     
  5. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Either build a better "telescope", or go out there in person and see with own eyes...:)

    v/r

    Q
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    After decades of being a planet Pluto has been exiled. The definition either required 12 or 8 depending on how it was interpretted....

    So we are back to 8....

    so much for the 12's

    now we are a piece of eight...one bit...in an octet, a fibernacci number...knock it down....infinity...
     
  7. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    You forgot music of the spheres, since there are eight notes in a musical octave.I think that the Pythagoreans are dancing with joy...somewhere, sometime, someplace.

    flow....:)
     
  8. jiii

    jiii ...

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    I actually just learned a bit more about this whole situation (thanks Science Channel). The problem is this:

    The Kuyper Belt is essentially a ring of asteroids that circle the outside of our solar system. Because the Kuyper Belt is so far away, astronomers are actually still discovering new objects within. Case in point, a planet that is larger than Pluto has been found in the Kuyper Belt, as well as another that is about 3/4 the size of Pluto. Astronomers anticipate finding a few others while they are at it...there could, theoretically, be many more Pluto-sized planets in the Kuyper Belt.

    Now, scientists have started question whether or not it is really feasible to include these bodies as planets, because if that happens, we could see our planet count jumping to 15 or 20 in the next decades! It isn't that they want to play word games, really. They have simply made a new discovery, determining that whereas Pluto was originally thought to be a distinctive planet amongst small asteroids, that it is not so unique...there may be a whole lot of planets like Pluto.

    Pluto was also under a bit of scrutiny anyway, because it's size is so miniscule in comparison even to the smaller inner planets. For instance, if Pluto and Charon were set side-by-side, they would just barely span the distance from Atlanitc Coast to Pacific Coast in the United States. That's much smaller, I think, than most people might've realized...definitely tinier than I realized.

    Furthermore, it's not exactly like scientists are just dismissing Pluto as an asteroid now. They simply acknowledge that there are probably an abundance of very small, Pluto-esque planets out there. These little worlds are so much smaller than everything else we call a planet (the Earth's Moon is larger than Pluto), and have the capability of being so much more abundant, that it really was time to reconsider things.

    At first, the whole businesses sounded like nonsense to me. However, now that I know a bit more, I can't say it's all that absurd, really. Old knowledge held that Pluto was, indeed, very small, but that it was still larger than most asteroids and solar system debris. In that case, it would make sense that it would unquestionably be called a planet. But, now they see that Pluto isn't the only dwarf planet out there, and that unless 'planet' is going to be extended to include bodies that are barely a couple hundred miles across, then the definition had to be re-examined. Simply a case of changing old ideas based upon new data.

    -jiii
     
  9. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa Active Member

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    I have compiled lists of numbers 0 to 12 in mythology and all of them not just 8 and 12 have significance, some more so, some less so. I'll post the lists sometime when got around to revising them, the 12 planets/zodiac signs/tribes/disciples are only a small part!

    I'd be interested to know more about the statement in opening post that astrologists have been claiming for a while that there were 12 planets (Sitchin?). The only ones I knew were Vulcan by Mercury, Proserpine by Venus, and Lilith by Moon. (Come to think of it I think theosophical literature I've got somewhere talks of other bodies too.)

    Not only Pluto and Charon double, but also Earth and Moon double according to some sources.

    The known planets are:
    (Sun), (Vulcan)/Mercury, (Proserpine)/Venus, Earth/(Moon/(Lilith)), Mars, Aster/Minerva/Planet X/Tiamat/planet k/planet v, Jupiter, Saturn, (Chiron), Uranus, Neptune, Pluto/(Charon), (Smiley), ....

    Bode's law accounts for M, V, E, M, X, J, S, U, (N). That gives 9 or 8 but then you have to add the recently discovered couple of large "planets" (&/or asteroid belts) beyond Pluto (Nibiru/Planet X/Planet T/ceb).

    But a strange thing is that I have seen Sumerian seal with 9 cirles/dots around star/sun (also cp 9 crosses Midas monument (vaguely similar to symbolic representations of 8 souls in ark.)) Perhaps the septenary system is the 8 excluding the earth rather than 5 plus sun & moon?
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Namaste and Welcome Alvis

    When I say astrologers...I am referring to comments I have heard from friends of mine who make charts, been in that world since the 70's or longer...

    They've been talking about science eventually finding more planets (or discovery of planets that were but have 'flown the coop') I know nothing of the big names in this business...

    But when the news of the 12 came to being...I remembered conversations.

    It'll be interesting to read your posting on the numbers...I've read some, seen some...but always interested in more...

    Goes well beyond 12 though eh? 28, 40, etc. and more having significance?
     
  11. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    There are 13 planets in our solar system...time will tell.
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Ok Q, piqued my interest...wherefor art thou?
     
  13. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    lol, from Earth...I only work in outer space...:eek:
     
  14. taijasi

    taijasi Gnōthi seauton

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    If you look up planet Vulcan on Wikipedia, you'll find a long list of historical observations by credible and popular astronomers, dating back several centuries - including some quite recent. A more comprehensive list, including amateur observations, would probably comprise several bound volumes. ;)

    Vulcan is an intra-Mercurial planet, making it quite close to the sun, hence the name (and association with Vulcan, or Hephaestus, the "blacksmith of the gods" - the fiery temperer). Sometimes, in esoteric writings, Vulcan is symbolized by the Sun; other times, we find the expression, "moon veiling Vulcan." For several good reasons - both in terms of modern and esoteric science - it is extremely difficult to observe Vulcan directly. The Wiki article lists some of the exoteric reasons ...

    Einstein may have been able to explain away these observations of Vulcan, along with the ether (aether), but both still exist, as posterity will some day show. Astrologers often take into account planet Vulcan, which does, and always has, held an important place in the charts of the heavens. Pluto, on the other hand, has never been regarded as a plant (what a nifty typo, I mean planet, of course :p) - by astrologers - since it is understood esoterically to be a SOLAR SATELLITE. It is a moon of our system (and therefore I presume it WAS the sun, in His last incarnation).

    As for Nibiru, or planet `X,' I dunno. Maybe there's something else out that way too, but I've never heard of it. Except for in Sitchin's, and related writings.

    The ancients DID often speak of Twelve Sacred Planets ... wil, et al ... and you can find a (really long) article about them here (which I stumbled upon in researching Vulcan).

    Also, esoteric teachings tell us that astrology will one day recognize seventy "hidden" planets in our solar system. The asteroids between Mars and Jupiter, is already theorized by some as possibly having once been a physical planet. Esoteric science knows that this is true, no matter what ideas conventional scientists currently hold. With Vulcan, minus Pluto, this would give us ten planetary schemes - or systems - of evolution. But I'm not sure how the hidden planets might factor in, nor how long it will be until conventional science acknowledges their existence.

    taijasi
     
  15. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa Active Member

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    The thing is that myth/occult is a mixture of history, science, metaphysics, etc, so that things may not be wholly literal yet still true. Also the word star &/or planet is not always used exactly the way it is scientifically defined (12 stars and 7 planets). So the 70 planets you tell us of may be related to the 72 duo-dekans &/or 70 nations coming out of Noah in Genesis 10. Another example is the Hollow Earth theory which is a code for the inner planets (where is appropriate thread to post it?)
     
  16. Alvis Rofhessa

    Alvis Rofhessa Active Member

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    the (major) "planets" are:

    sun, vulcan/Mercury, proserpine/Venus/lucifer/star, Earth-lilith/luna, Mars,
    aster/planet x/minerva/tiamat/planet k/planet v,
    Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto-charon, smiley,
    nabiru/198?-ceb/planet x/planet t/asteroid belts/oort cloud.

    the main theories are:

    lunar capture theory (proselenoi/hoerbiger/bellamy/hitler),
    moon out of pacific,
    halleys comet (spanuth),
    nibiru (sitchin)
    nemesis,
    venus out of jupiter/venus culture (varro/velikovsky/jantsang),
    near pass by of mars/mars culture (misler),
    exploded planet hypothesis/k/v/x/t (van flanderen/alford/creationists),

    phaethon (plato/spanuth)
    sekhmet (spanuth)

    orbit alteration, axis tilt, crust displacement (hapgood/einstein/flem-ath/hancock), continental (plate) shift (hapgood).

    Cons with most of these are: ockham's razor, sabian septenary system, genesis, Bode's law (accounts for M, V, E, M, x, J, S, U, (N?)), etc.
    The most/only strong/convincing theory is the planet X one (Aster &/or "Nabiru") of Van Flanderen/Alford.

    sitchin excerpts online at:
    The Official Web Site of Zecharia Sitchin
    http://www.geocities.com/elchasqui_2/ZSitchinalltitles.html
     
  17. Snoopy

    Snoopy zennish

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  18. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    12 planets? In this Solar system? There are eight.... But again that is just HERE... There could be millions of hundreds thousands of.... millions...of planets... And how many of the 162 moons in our system do you call moons? Or do you call them planets? Is the sun a planet?

    And what does that truly have to do with the 12 people that followed jesus?

    Or are we just putting things that have the number 12 in it and saying they are somehow connected? lol...

    Wait!!! I got it!!!.... 12, gauge..... There's a connection jesus' weapon of choice? Used it to defeat satan in the desert.. These pages went missing....

    [​IMG]
     
  19. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    -post edit-
    And, then once he had defeated satan with the 12 gauge he went into hiding... where he stayed for 12 months and while in boredome made a song to keep him busy, called it the tweleve days of christmas.... Anyhow after these twelve pages that went missing state all this, he then carried on with the parts of the bible that are still intact... Rising again in 1995 to produce the movie The twelve monkeys and then again in 2004 to create the film Oceans twelve.....
     
  20. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    There are only eight notes in an octave. There are flats and sharps on the eight, but they are variations of the eight tones. Snoop, take it from a musician who deals with the stuff day to day. There are only eight notes.

    v/r

    Joshua
     

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