Why?
- Thread starter Terrence
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Terrence said:
Here's a start:
CHRIST-ianity
So Christianity must be about JESUS CHRIST: Who He is and what He taught.
You can find as many answers to those questions as there are posters in a forum, but for me the source of all information about Jesus Christ is the Holy Bible.
Terrence said:
Walking with God, on a daily (for some hourly), basis. Accepting a gift, that everyone seems to get up in arms about, but deep inside, knows they need. Realizing that no matter where one is, or how old, the relationship with Jesus is the beginning of something wonderful. A reserve of strength when one feels tapped out. Allowing some one else to take the wheel, when we'd much rather do it ourselves. Peace, beyond understanding. Trust that is never violated. Promises that never come back unfulfilled. A friend that will never leave, nor give up, nor foresake you.
Oh, yeah. A spot in heaven...
welcome to CR Terrence.
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BlaznFattyz
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being saved by jesus christ and loving god and others.Terrence said:
Dor
Bible Thumper
It is about life and death.Terrence said:
It is about our loving creator God that sacrificed his own son for us.
It is about our faith and belief in the fact that Christ died for our salvation.
It is about our submitting our live to his will and developing a personal relationship with him so we know his will.
It is all covered in the Bible.
Just 2cts from a bible thumping fundy.
Dor
Bible Thumper
Terrence said:
Those questions can be hard ones to answer.
Remember these opinions are from a bible believing fundamentalist.
I would have to say no to the Christian muslim. For the reason that a majority of Christianity(which I belong to) believe Jesus Christ is God and died and resurrected 3 days later. Where as Muslims think Jesus was just a good man and a prophet of God and his death and resurrection were faked.
Do I have to be a Christian to go to heaven? Well there are very conflicting thoughts on that. From my Christian fundamentalist thought I have to go by what the bible says which is yes you do.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
The majority of Christians are fairly broad-minded, and do not hold to those ideas, Terrence. Don't worry, if you and 99% of the world's population goes to hell, you'll be in good company!Terrence said:
lolI guess I've never cared much for gold-paved streets and cloud-squatting, harp-playing angels anyway.
Most Christians I know try to focus on the unconditional, all-inclusive LOVE which Christ taught ... and it's also very popular to ask "What would Jesus do?" (WWJD) when it comes to moral & ethical questions. This is very practical, down-to-earth, yet effective way to be sure that we are following in Christ's footsteps.
Of course, there are also people who believe that one's spirtual well-being, and status in the afterlife, is directly proportional to one's pew-warming abilities on Sunday mornings. This has very little to do with Christianity, imho. Be careful not to confuse Christianity, with churchianity.
Love and Light,
taijasa
Taijasa,
Wow, that was some cool stuff you said there. Are you a Christian? I understand what you said that most Christians are more broad on the issue of not believing in Jesus and still being able to go to heaven, but is that what the Bible says? I keep reading in the Bible that Jesus is the only way to God and thats why I asked about it. This stuff sounds kind of exclusive and scary to me.
Wow, that was some cool stuff you said there. Are you a Christian? I understand what you said that most Christians are more broad on the issue of not believing in Jesus and still being able to go to heaven, but is that what the Bible says? I keep reading in the Bible that Jesus is the only way to God and thats why I asked about it. This stuff sounds kind of exclusive and scary to me.
Dor
Bible Thumper
Well what about WDJD what did Jesus do?taijasi said:
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]John 14:6[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.[/FONT]
Yes we are supposed to love and submit our life to Christ. Thats the difference alot try to follow Christ. We are not supposed to follow in his footsteps but actually let him take the steps.
Dor
Bible Thumper
And I did not say all people go to hell. Jesus is basically our get out of jail card in that we get to skip that part of judgement but it does say that all men will be judged by him so there always is the possibility just not a very big one if you use the bible to make your judgement.
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
Well, as I see it, vicarious atonement is one of the most pernicious doctrines ever preached upon this planet in the name of the Lord of Love & Life. Yes, Christ certainly told us that "no one comes to the Father except through me." However, not all of us agree about the interpretations given to `Father' and "except through me."Terrence said:
I encourage you to stick around - see what LOTS of different folks here at CR have to say. You'll find extreme viewpoints, like that of myself and Dor - which are pretty much polar opposites - and you'll find a lot of moderation. I encourage you to seek out the middle ground, or whatever makes the most sense to you.
As for coming to the Father through Christ, this has everything to do with Ephesians 4:13 ... and with St. Paul's teaching regarding "Christ in you, the hope of glory." That's not something special for Jews, or for Christians. In this sense, Paul helped immensely to open doors, even if he is getting bashed a good bit of late, here at CR.
Christ dwells within every human heart, it's just that in other religions, there are different terminologies, or ways of understanding this Inner Goodness. I have truly begun to think, or believe, that this SCARES some people. I suppose they feel threatened, if they have to regard ALL of Humanity as basically one big FAMILY. That's just too hard. It's easier to say, "we're special, we're different," perhaps because it makes the circle of friends a bit smaller.
But me? I don't care if you spit in my face, call me un-Christian, or kick me out of the "member's only" club. I am what I am, and I know what I know. I know, for a fact, that Christ's message was intended for the entire world - while at the same time, He also came as a reformer for Judaism, and as the fulfilment of various prophecies. Christ's presence in the world now, assures me that He is here for ALL - not just for a privileged few.
As for the idea that one can "not believe in Jesus" and still go to heaven, of course!!!
Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Pagans, and even those people that laugh about religion, or say it's all just a crock ... ALL will make it to Heaven. Like I said, nothing burns some folks up worse, than having to extend their love, their forgiveness, their patience & understanding, to others. Wanna see proof? Watch what posts follow this one. So. Am I a Christian? Mmmm, some days.
Other days, I'm just me. My aspiration would be to do as the disciples do. Discipleship didn't end with Christ's appearance 2000 years ago. It didn't start then, either. Christ came to fulfil the Law, but not to start it, nor to end it. God's Law is LOVE.Most Christians can agree that this is summed up in just Two Commandments, which are the two most important of the Mosaic Code. And imo, all the rest - is just quibbling and details. Nevertheless, these details are important enough, that Christianity officially has well over 20,000 registered sects & denominations. That's a lot of disagreement, if you ask me. Why not focus on the commonalities?
Remember, also the words of the Christ: "If I be lifted up, I will draw ALL MEN unto me." This is in John, ch.10, v.32. But shhhhh, it's a SECRET. Don't let some people hear you say that, or know that Christ made this promise. It irritates them, just eats them up from the inside out, to hear that ALL people are going to come to fullness in Christ. Some folks, I'm afraid, will fight with words, while others, would draw swords - even guns - to hold the status quo.
But we see this happen in the name of several religions, don't we ... not just Christianity. A man says, "I love you , Lord," with his lips, yet kills his Brother with his hands, and heart. This is not Christian, Islamic, Buddhist or ANYthing ... except ignorant. But then, we're all human - and learning.
Thank goodness there are some mighty good examples in this world - people of ALL faiths - to show us the way, and remind us that hate has never yet quenched hate. Only Love, conquers hate. (The Teachings of the Christs, and the Buddhas.)
Love and Light,
taijasa
Very interesting concept...Dor said:
Never heard it put quite that way...And truth be known I am dancing at the thought! Coming from my bible beatin friend this is quite interesting. If I am to take this all literallike...and Jesus is up there with the gavel, we got the Devil as Prosecuting Attorney, and who knows who exactly will show up as witnesses for the defense...but if people gotta represent themselves and Jesus is the judge..."I feeeeeeel good....dunnah nunnah nunnah nah...I knew that I would now...dunnah nunnah nunnah nah....
Seriously I have always been ok with my thought, content where I am at...but this thought from you just upped m level of contentment.
Interesting.
taijasi said:Well, as I see it, vicarious atonement is one of the most pernicious doctrines ever preached upon this planet in the name of the Lord of Love & Life. Yes, Christ certainly told us that "no one comes to the Father except through me." However, not all of us agree about the interpretations given to `Father' and "except through me."
I encourage you to stick around - see what LOTS of different folks here at CR have to say. You'll find extreme viewpoints, like that of myself and Dor - which are pretty much polar opposites - and you'll find a lot of moderation. I encourage you to seek out the middle ground, or whatever makes the most sense to you.
As for coming to the Father through Christ, this has everything to do with Ephesians 4:13 ... and with St. Paul's teaching regarding "Christ in you, the hope of glory." That's not something special for Jews, or for Christians. In this sense, Paul helped immensely to open doors, even if he is getting bashed a good bit of late, here at CR.
Christ dwells within every human heart, it's just that in other religions, there are different terminologies, or ways of understanding this Inner Goodness. I have truly begun to think, or believe, that this SCARES some people. I suppose they feel threatened, if they have to regard ALL of Humanity as basically one big FAMILY. That's just too hard. It's easier to say, "we're special, we're different," perhaps because it makes the circle of friends a bit smaller.
But me? I don't care if you spit in my face, call me un-Christian, or kick me out of the "member's only" club. I am what I am, and I know what I know. I know, for a fact, that Christ's message was intended for the entire world - while at the same time, He also came as a reformer for Judaism, and as the fulfilment of various prophecies. Christ's presence in the world now, assures me that He is here for ALL - not just for a privileged few.
As for the idea that one can "not believe in Jesus" and still go to heaven, of course!!!
So. Am I a Christian? Mmmm, some days.
Most Christians can agree that this is summed up in just Two Commandments, which are the two most important of the Mosaic Code. And imo, all the rest - is just quibbling and details. Nevertheless, these details are important enough, that Christianity officially has well over 20,000 registered sects & denominations. That's a lot of disagreement, if you ask me. Why not focus on the commonalities?
Remember, also the words of the Christ: "If I be lifted up, I will draw ALL MEN unto me." This is in John, ch.10, v.32. But shhhhh, it's a SECRET. Don't let some people hear you say that, or know that Christ made this promise. It irritates them, just eats them up from the inside out, to hear that ALL people are going to come to fullness in Christ. Some folks, I'm afraid, will fight with words, while others, would draw swords - even guns - to hold the status quo.
But we see this happen in the name of several religions, don't we ... not just Christianity. A man says, "I love you , Lord," with his lips, yet kills his Brother with his hands, and heart. This is not Christian, Islamic, Buddhist or ANYthing ... except ignorant. But then, we're all human - and learning.
Thank goodness there are some mighty good examples in this world - people of ALL faiths - to show us the way, and remind us that hate has never yet quenched hate. Only Love, conquers hate. (The Teachings of the Christs, and the Buddhas.)
Love and Light,
taijasa
What you say is new to me and sounds so universal. I always thought that Christanity taught one way - namely, that of the narrow gate which is through Christ. What is your central interpretive motif of scripture? I'm guessing it is love. Most people I've spoken with would say they interprete scripture and God's main attribute as Holy. In viewing it this way, the "God is Love," slogan is viewed differently and I suppose this is why Christians maintian that Jesus is the only way to God and not Buddaha or any other wise sage or prophet?
It is sometimes implied that Christians believe they are right just because they were brought up in a Christian country. It's a bit like saying it must be ok for me to have a higher standard of living than some African people because I was born in a rich country. Neither of those conclusions are correct.
I believe that Christianity as revealed in the Bible is right. I cannot say what happens to those who do not believe, all I can say is what happens to those who do truly believe.
I also know that the Bible says we are condemned if Jesus Christ calls us to follow Him and we refuse. Judgement based on this criterion means that a lot more people in Christian countries may be condemned than those in countries where they have not heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Many believe that God will judge those who have not heard the Gospel on the basis of how they treated others:
I believe that Christianity as revealed in the Bible is right. I cannot say what happens to those who do not believe, all I can say is what happens to those who do truly believe.
I also know that the Bible says we are condemned if Jesus Christ calls us to follow Him and we refuse. Judgement based on this criterion means that a lot more people in Christian countries may be condemned than those in countries where they have not heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Many believe that God will judge those who have not heard the Gospel on the basis of how they treated others:
Matthew 25:31-40 (NIV)
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
BlaznFattyz
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there is wisdom in the fear of the Lord. there is foolishness in the reliance in the philosophies of man in the eyes of God, even moreso when their agenda is to discredit the power of god and his holy word, or to know that god exists but say there is away around him and he is not needed, or to change the characteristics of god to fit their needs. know that god knocks on the hearts of men, and his spirit looks for those he may call to do his work. it can be a ignorance to not open the door to an unknown God, but it can be condemnation to deny the work of the holy spirit in your life when he reveals the truth of the Son of God. it is one thing to not know christ, but it is a sad state of affairs to know christ, but deny that he is the way, the truth, and the life. anything else besides faith and love and repentance to our Lord God and Saviour who died and rose again on the cross for our salvation is deception, doubt, division, defiance, and the father of those things is happy to make man stumble.kenod said:
taijasi
Gnōthi seauton
wil said:
Horse puckey. That was brought forth several times before in the past several months. No one judges man but God. Christians have a "get out of jail free" card...you don't remember that? Everyone else is judged according to their life...because that is their choice...
Don't make me go an pull the dozen or so posts of the past to show you (what you actively read), else you is gettin' 50 lashes with a wet spaggeti noodle...