unredeemable?

shadowman

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what are the theories on this?

say someone who has been a selfish spoiled asshole in many regards for most of his life, doing the worst things imaginable. dishonoring and cursing parents, verbal abuse, anger management, wall punching, trash talking, bitter, ungrateful, sarcasm having wretch. (i have been all these things until i got hit by my own remorse, sadness, and fear of losing my immortal soul)

possibly a bad seed, tare whatever you would call it, at least in some very important regards, an evil child.

do years of this behavior damn someone? with no hope of redemption (you cant take back some things, psychological and emotional damaage inflicted on loved ones)


postive steps are taking, but honestly, how can someone cleanse themself? or is the punishment walking with the burden of guilt and sin? and to continue to walk towards the light and away from the negative path?


taking on all these negative choieswarped my perception of everything. when doing them, im not even sure if i thougt i t was that bad. i was justifying them, saying things were unfair. being confused.

this lead to severe depression and laziness and possibly a psychological situation called schizo tipal, where my mind is set up to think doubly, and parts of my subconscious that thrive on anger greed and lust dont really like me too much.

i was hearing messed p voices

christian thought would say i had demons


and it got worse



at one point i was trying to stop the weird voices and confusions and was trying to get divine helped.

at one point i tried asking a dark spirit, christian satan or devil. to tell me "whats the trut"

and of course in my head i thought i heard satan telling me he was real, and i was being tormented by him, and now i couldn accept jesus, because i had found a loophole and since satan revealed himself to me, i knew that "christianity was right" (this is something i sdont even think, i look to numerous scriptres for knowledge and understanding, and im not even sure if bible can be trusted, but this goes out the window when you start hearing stuff)


since i knew it was right by uhol means, and blessed are those that do not see and yet eleive, how could i beleive now that i had seen satan

i even heard voices inside me saying he could have my soul and burn me in hell forever and all eternity


my jungian psychoanalysis says i got incontact with an archetypal figure in my subconsciousness, a personigficaiton of negative personalities i had nurtured over years by giving into whims, anger, lust and greed

that essenitally, i hate myself, and my shadow really doesnt like me either.

it has convinced my ego that i am unredeemable and deserve "hell"

even though my rational tohught s skeptic that anyone even gets hell.

even so, even if i could redeem myself through actions (and ihave, ive realized mistakes ad am changing"

its too late anyway becuase i "gave my soul to satan in return for the knowledge of his existence"



now i thik i see other lost and damned souls everywhere.

i think they can communicate with me telepathically, like the weird torment of the damned, all able to sense immediately when they see each other. some i think are even mad at me for "blowing their cover" if i see someone on the street and we have that unspoken conection.

sometimes i thik they are a huge network of damned souls spreading lies through other religious paths to keep peop;e from true salvation in jesus.

i used to hate fundamental christian thought, im a jazz musician in love with african and voodoo and indian music for crying outloud!

but now im locked in a great conspiracy of demons and angels

jungian psychology explains this.

but maybe thats just so people that truly will be going to the unthinkable torment of hell will think better and feel better. ease their time on earth, cuz after that, it is really really going to suck?

that makes sense, psychologists just tell the patient what he needs to hear.

maybe psychologists even know that they really DID sel or lose their souls forever.

i know this is out there..


honeslty i get more insight from the egyptian book of life or the bagavad gita then the bible, but im either indoctrinated into a crazy devil myth due to my nurtured darkside, or its all true. and all of the "free spirits" are damning themselves.



or maybe its just people that do worst of the worst, in any path of spirituality, after a certain point of osul defilement, the light becomes snuffed and the devil completely takes them.

peace
 
maybe i got into contact with something older than the devil, or satan the shatan or whatever.
 
Namaste Shadowman,

Continue to seek help, continue to strive to better yourself. Awareness that there is an issue is so powerful. Being able to understand so much about your self is incredible.

You are on a path to discovery and moving away from your past, that has to be wonderful.

peace and blessings,

wil
 
You know, you could ask for an exorcism to be performed, if you think it's getting too serious. Exorcisms are not just for driving demons out, and they have very helpful side effects in this case. Fr. Gabriele Amorth has two good books out on the subject, explaining much of the ins and outs of exorcism. I'm not exactly sure how to find one though, but perhaps if you know any Catholic churches near you, you could inquire there.

As for selling your souls to a demon and damning yourself for eternity, that's not possible IMO unless you agree and abide with it. You are obviously not agreeing with it and are trying to free yourself from this situation. You cannot lose your soul to such a lowly being as the devil, IMO he only makes you think you've lost it so you panic. The voices in your head are not telling the truth, even if they may be very persistent.

I'm pretty much convinced that an exorcism would help you out, so you should look into it. Well, I mean, I'm no priest or anything, but I have done a bit of reading on exorcism and all that.

Edit: Why exactly do you think you gave your souls to the devil or a spirit? Did you make a contract or something or was it just something you said in your mind.
 
i heard things in my head. i heard a voice inside me saying "yes" to the voice i tohught was the devil. probably two personality complexes having fun trying to mess with my ego (the i in me)

maybe a darker "i" that i had nurtured due to my dark decisions in the past
 
Well, it's either a part of your psyche or it's a malicious spirit, or both. Exorcists make sure to determine the difference. If nothing else, and exorcism would at least convince you that you had been liberated, which is part of the battle won already.
 
oh great, so this could actually be the devil then.

if it was. am i really doomed to hell now?
 
what does this mean? in my head i said yes to a voice i tohught was a demon or a devil. i dont think i wanted to, maybe i did. does that mean im screwed now?

i was high, paranoid, and hearing weird things
 
shadowman, i would *strongly* advise you to speak to a medical professional as well as seeking spiritual advice. a discussion board on the internet is not the place to ask for input on stuff like this.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
i am. my worry is that its possible that shrinks, psychoanalysists and the like do realize that people can actually become damned by their actions or by messing around with mysticism. and are just telling people they are crazy to try and make them feel better while they are still on earth.

thats why im trying to get psiritual info as well
 
shadowman said:
i am. my worry is that its possible that shrinks, psychoanalysists and the like do realize that people can actually become damned by their actions or by messing around with mysticism. and are just telling people they are crazy to try and make them feel better while they are still on earth.

thats why im trying to get psiritual info as well

Guess you're left with God.
 
know that we are inadequate in all things, seek the lord and pray to him to help you. when you trust him and give all your problems, worries, and life to him, then you will find that these problems in life were tests so that the glory of god could be made known. with the lord all things are possible, therefore praise him in all things. the lord loves you and died for you and wishes that all come to salvation.
 
Shadow, I found this interesting. What leads you to think it is this Satan character that you have talked with? What leads you to think anyone is already judged? What leads you to think knowledge of Satan is a bad thing?

I think I know Satan and it is not a person or a soul. In fact, I think it is the seed of the imagination... creativity. It is in everyone's mind. I think of an unclean spirit (translated demon) as having no soul. I tend to see folks claiming to do exorcisms as doing nothing more than praying to God (swt) with a bit of folklore. If a car breaks down on the side of the road, I consider that it has an unclean spirit because the problem is unknown to us and it was unintended by both the people who made the car and the person driving it. Should I pull the holy water and cross out to resurrect the car and send the unclean spirit to a nearby pig? I can't state with certainty, but that is my opinion from the evidence that I see.

Shadow, you asked how does a person clean themselves of a history of sin? I say: Confession. I have yet to shake the hands of anyone who claims to be without sin. I have seen in my own life: That when I have confessed to the people that I had sinned against and asked for their forgiveness, that things happen. I've seen real, correlated events within 3 days... external feedback that otherwise would be considered an uncorrelated fluke if a person did not believe in God (swt). By uncorrelated, I mean being approached by 3rd party individual(s), strangers, with new events that were unknown and unrelated to the original. A person might have to work to get a person to say, "I forgive you", but I think it is worth doing. A person reveals new values by doing that... even helping the other person.

There was a lesser sin that I confessed to with a person and that very same day a 3rd formerly unknown and unrelated person came and committed the same sin against me. It was strange... the odds of that were very slim. I forgave him. But then later I went back to the person I had confessed to and literally asked, "Will you forgive me?", and I got the 'YES'. It was difficult to do... it is like asking for shame. If anything is difficult to do... it is probably the right thing to do. Once done it is not so difficult. I later walked into a store to buy some things. The guy ringing me up stared at the digital numbers with a blank long stare and said, "Huh... I have not seen that before. 7.77 Must be your lucky day... maybe you should go buy a lottery ticket." It wasn't so much what he said, but his reaction and the way he said it. I knew. There is no good or bad luck with God (swt). The stone that the builders reject becomes the capstone. I have seen that God (swt) talks through people. I thought about it and I think since I knew then that people are held by God (swt) to forgive each other, just confessing a sin is presenting them with a burden and might make them doubtful of me, angry, or to not trust me. But if I work and do whatever I can to earn their words, "I forgive you" then I will have cleared them too. In this way I am not just helping myself... but witnessing new values and helping someone else by being an example.

So, if anyone thinks they have a list of sins... welcome to the club. I think the problem is when a person does not see their sins. I think any baggage of sins is an opportunity. There is a finite number of sins to confess, right? Once I've learned though, I can't just go back and commit new ones. I guess I could, but I don't want to. I like how the Catholics emphasize confession, but I do think they need to pull it out of the box. Baptism is supposed to involve confession. Also, I don't know Carl Jung other than what I read on Wiki. But I don't think a person should confuse confessing a sin to someone trusted like a hired psychiatrist or a priest, with confessing the sin to the people most effected. Even if it is something as small as, "You know what... I think I might have been wrong to have been angry with you the other day." That is a confession. Or, "You know... now I feel remorse that I was not being fair with you years ago. I had a bad attitude back then."

Prayer: Asking for help... asking for the wisdom to change. Even ask others to pray. I was once concerned with the idle thoughts in my mind that played out evil scenarios, imagining the worst possible in people and the worst that I could do in response... or just imagining myself doing the worst to begin with. Even like: if things got bad would I or how could I rob a bank? It was really a silent paranoia, if you will, although I never saw it that way. Some of the root is that I am a slow and methodical thinker. I absorb information and dwell on it later. If it comes to a fight or a flight decision, I'm the idiot who does neither effectively and starts recording everything with tunnel vision and a feeble misguided response. Example: I've jumped out of an airplane after a long class visually imagining the required steps to release a parachute over and over, going through the motions as the instructor advises. So I go to jump out from a feeble 3,000 ft. first holding onto that diagonal cross-member of a small Cesna, and instead I'm looking down taking the awesome view in as I let go... and start tumbling. Lucky the first jump is a static line, which means the parachute is deployed automatically. But it is called information overload. While I am brave enough to do many things in front of others... it has struck a terror in my body just to give a speech and answer questions. I'm too slow. I like to compile my thoughts instead of speaking on my toes. But trying to prepare then becomes trying to anticipate, which then becomes paranoia because it involves guessing people and situations. It becomes like trying to play a game of chess and thinking through every possible move and outcome, some of which are clearly evil. With the concept that if it is in my mind then I am unclean on the inside, I wanted to see if I could identify why and get some answers. The concept that a little paranoia was a good thing seemed to me like a good idea, but how much is a little? So I prayed to God (swt) for help identifying and eliminating the thoughts that really troubled me. Today, I am surprised that I had such a problem. There is a real difference between wisdom and anticipative conjecture. There is a real difference between visualizing what I will do, and anticipating what someone else will do. People have souls and it is bad to anticipate their character. The best way to learn something is to practice. If I want to be good, then first visualize what being good means, and then go practice. A failure is just an opportunity to learn... the paranoia and fear came because I was taking myself far too seriously, and trying to anticipate what can not really be anticipated. I can anticipate the desires of a person that I know, but I can not anticipate their soul.

So if someone is afraid or remorseful of the sins formerly committed, as if making a mistake is a permanent blot on the record forever, then I tend to think that there is an underestimate of God's power in this world or that there is a misplaced anticipation of his will and purpose.

Shadow, your posts here sound healthy to me if you are being honest. I mean like more than the majority of people. I am curious to hear more about the voice that you heard. I don't hallucinate auditory voices but I have had lucid waking dreams where I have been able to divide my response from something that I sense is coming from somewhere else. I also felt a rebuke once, and consciously responded to it, "How can I serve?" The rebuke immediately went away and never returned. I did later fear that I had signed up for something like, "sold my soul", but I don't think that is the point. By giving into evil you shut it up. It is not selling the soul, for I think evil has no soul. I also think people can learn from evil to know what evil is. For example if someone chastises you for how you do things, then don't fight it... just say, "It is your turn then... lets try it your way." I have absolutely no doubts that I am evil... I have sins to prove it. But the soul that makes the choices is the one responsible, right? If there were a Satan that has a soul, then he will convict himself if I were to follow him. If a seemingly mad man comes to me and rebukes me and claims to be a Son of God (swt), and that I should follow him, and I say "How can I serve?", have I sold my soul to Satan or to Jesus (pbuh)? Is that a bad thing to do? So it is hard to say for sure if real or imagined voices is anything that Carl Jung imagines... like from a shadow, or as I imagine from God (swt) or another in spirit, or Satan as one might imagine. But if God (swt) wants me in hell, then that is where I am going and it is hell that is going to regret my presence.

If I were to provide an example: As a young child if I were chased by a big scary dog and I ran, the dog chased me. If I turned to confront it, then it growled and attacked. But if I squatted down and extended a hand, it changed its appearance and became friendly. As far as I'm concerned the dog is evil... so have I "sold my soul" to it? Quite the opposite. I own that dog now. It is predictable.

If you stress the body you will see the body squirm... but that is the body and not the soul. I think fasting, like Ramadan, has a similar effect. Review the verse for when Jesus (pbuh) had a conversation with Satan... surely nobody thinks Jesus was crazy, do they? But if a person needs to get healthy best to not fight the design of this world... do not overlook proper balanced nutrition, adequate sleep, moderate exercise, positive relationships, drinking lots of water, and seeking low thermal stress. There is a reason that people get more hostile on average when parched in the sun, or dumber while exercising, or greedy while hungry, or depressed post partum... and as far as I know it does not have anything to do with the soul. Environmental stress itself provides an opportunity to learn from and the soul I think can overcome it, but if a person is in need of learning from prior mistakes then it is probably a good idea to step into the shade first.

I don't know how or where the resources of the soul reside beyond the physical mind and body, but I know there is information available to people that is not from this world that people see. That is a basic premise of Abrahamic religion, right? I've seen it and felt it as lucidly as an earthquake, but an earthquake that can be interpreted in different ways by different people. Remember the story of Abraham (pbuh) holds that he had an auditory hallucination... was it Satan telling him to sacrifice his son? A lot of people I know grimace at that. Or how about a man who was asked to go build an ark and load it full of animals? Sane or insane? Does a person think those are fictional stories? Does a person that believes in those stories tell you to go seek professional help? Talk about crazy. But I apply only the things that I have learned. I don't know how the soul learns or changes... or how it is redeemed except by scripture and my own experience. I also don't understand the source of commonly recognized mental disorders. If I'm right though, the sins I committed did not lose the relationship with God (swt). So I don't think a person is unredeemable. If I am proven wrong... what does it matter? But I do think a person has to take steps to overcome whatever caused the sins.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Can you say out loud "Christ is Lord?

i know that this is how it is supposed to work in christianity. and i am definitely a wretch that needs amazing grace, but i cant let that stamp out my rational thouht side, and the argument of god doesnt have to be rational or make sense doesnt sit well with me either.

my problem at this point is i either know too much to embrace christianity in that fashion, or i dont know enough. i know that if "interpreted correctly" the bible is contradiciton less. but to me that isnt proof of a divine hand anymore than any other religious texts. i think they all "work" if they are used the right way.

blindly following a path like chrisitanity would make my psychosis reach a higer state where i start hearing jesus voices instead of devil voices.

so far, in my view, christianity is a mild mental illness that is unbeleivably positive for the saved follower, unimaginably terrible for anyone that disagrees, and thats the part that irks me.
 
shadowman said:
blindly following a path like chrisitanity would make my psychosis reach a higer state where i start hearing jesus voices instead of devil voices.
it is not blindly that man follows christ, but in the knowledge that he is our saviour and we have eternal life through him.
 
Shadowman,

Do you want to become a Christian? If so, why? If not, what do you want...What would you like to happen?

Later,

Terrence
 
shadowman said:
i know that this is how it is supposed to work in christianity. and i am definitely a wretch that needs amazing grace, but i cant let that stamp out my rational thouht side, and the argument of god doesnt have to be rational or make sense doesnt sit well with me either.

my problem at this point is i either know too much to embrace christianity in that fashion, or i dont know enough. i know that if "interpreted correctly" the bible is contradiciton less. but to me that isnt proof of a divine hand anymore than any other religious texts. i think they all "work" if they are used the right way.

blindly following a path like chrisitanity would make my psychosis reach a higer state where i start hearing jesus voices instead of devil voices.

so far, in my view, christianity is a mild mental illness that is unbeleivably positive for the saved follower, unimaginably terrible for anyone that disagrees, and thats the part that irks me.

no..seriously... just speak the words out loud.. "Jesus is Lord" Can you physically do that?
 
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