Good Men Hate God

wil said:
Aw, I'm fully aware that you all feel I'm on the outside looking in...

And that you don't agree with me....despite the times I feel I agree with you.

I don't write your words, I just read them...albiet through rose colored glasses.

I do see a time for every season...and I see a purpose and a need for the fire and brimstone motivational speech...I just don't see it so applicable in this venue. One may consider me off the path, or on a different path. But I don't see myself as in the gutter, and I could be wrong, but that is where I see the value in the in your face, your gonna go to hell if you don't straighten up mentality.
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But see, you could be in the inside looking in...

I don't care for fire either (I fight it for a living). None the less it is fact. However not everyone is dancing around the fire pit either, so your point is equally valid.

But (there allways is a butt with a body), the fact that there is fire, doesn't mean everyone can preach about it. There are some who's voice is so ingratiating, that the blind will deliberately turn away from the sound (and could literally fall into the fire), instead of turning towards the sound (away from the fire).

Some folk just are not meant to be preachers. Others could be if they would take inventory of their own closet. And then there are those we can listen to all day long, and never grow tired of hearing them...

Others still are the listeners, and they hear the ring of truth or the deadened thud of false piety.

Does that make sense to you?
 
For: Moses

Its only idolatry when the god you worship is not the God of the Bible. Yes, the God of the Bible is Love. Man, I cant express in words how great and awesome and amazing His love Really is. But, you will never understand His love apart from His Holiness and wrath. How could you really appriciate the gift of the Cure (Jesus) without understanding your sickness (sin)? You cant! Love God for who He reveals Himself to be in the Bible and you will do fine. Most people, however, cant and wont.
 
moseslmpg said:
Doesn't the Bible itself say God is love? How is worshipping that God idolatry then?
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Yes it does say that but it also says quite often that God is holy, righteous and gets angry. He does judge.

Look it is easy to see how much he loves us.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Well that is exactly what God did for us.
 
Quahom1 said:
Does that make sense to you?
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To be honest Q, I preferred the baseball stuff. Let me check this back with you: I'm a deaf man with a white stick, in a closet, on the edge of fire pit. Wil will probably make more of it I guess.

Snoop.
 
Terrence said:
Didnt you know Q, good men are dead man. Those who are made alive know that it is only by grace they are saved. They are some of the most vile and wicked men who have been changed to become like Christ. Good men do good deeds and die unforgiven, unregenrated law breakers and God haters. They trust in their own rightousness and go to hell. Good men teach bad men how to be good and die. Christ came to call dead men to life and give it more abundantly.
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No Terrence. They are simply men, with godly potential. If they ignore God, then they are dead. But then, they wouldn't be "good men" either, come to think about it. And I do not choose to judge who is and who isn't dead.

Know why? I'm not God. (tried to be God once, but the responsibility was just too damn much for me to handle). And I don't think God needs our help in judging ourselves...He's a big boy and can do it all by Himself.

That leaves us with one objective. Show the living, how to LIVE, and let the dead bury their own.

Quite simple actually.

If we all are children of Noah (and I presume we are biblically speaking), then we all know the laws of God. We carry them within us. We also KNOW that the end of the road is death, one day. Therefore our "preaching" should be about the LIFE, we can have, after this death, if we only believe on Christ. In other words, the doomed need to hear about salvation, not expatriation.

Does that make sense?
 
Dor said:
Yes it does say that but it also says quite often that God is holy, righteous and gets angry. He does judge.

Look it is easy to see how much he loves us.
John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Well that is exactly what God did for us.
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Exactly! Man, everyone can see it. God suffered Hell for sinners. We broke the Law and Christ paid the fine. Its the nicest thing anyone could possibly do for you. Now why wouldnt you love a God like that? Because he requires you to stop sinning? THats a SMALL price to pay. Life is short, and heaven is ETERNAL. Think about that. Dont trade away riches for trash. Repent and Trust in Christ!
 
Snoopy said:
To be honest Q, I preferred the baseball stuff. Let me check this back with you: I'm a deaf man with a white stick, in a closet, on the edge of fire pit. Wil will probably make more of it I guess.

Snoop.
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LOL, use your stick to find the edge of the pit, and then avoid it at all costs. Anyway you move, as long as it is away from the pit's edge, is safe. Even I can understand that...
 
Terrence said:
Exactly! Man, everyone can see it. God suffered Hell for sinners. We broke the Law and Christ paid the fine. Its the nicest thing anyone could possibly do for you. Now why wouldnt you love a God like that? Because he requires you to stop sinning? THats a SMALL price to pay. Life is short, and heaven is ETERNAL. Think about that. Dont trade away riches for trash. Repent and Trust in Christ!
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God SUFFERED HELL? No, He conquered it last time I checked. He might have paid the fine, but as I recall He reminded the Father to "Forgive them, for they know not what they do". He never told anyone to stop sinning. There is no prerequisite to become a Christian except to Believe unto Him. Minor details are worked out later.

Oh, I also think it is "trust in Christ" FIRST. Repentence will naturally follow.

But then, I'm not a preacher, just a lowly sailor...
 
Terrence said:
Exactly! Man, everyone can see it. God suffered Hell for sinners. ...
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I get busted on for picking everything to death....but this kind of talk just confuses the heck out of me.

If we are to believe the book, hook line and sinker...

How does the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent screw up so bad? Creating such sinners, creating a hell to suffer in, a devil to fight.

I mean if my kid builds his SimCity and it fails and he has to destroy it and build it over...makes sense...he's a kid playing a computer game...

But if the almighty all knowing goes out and creates such a disaster, what does that say about the grand poobah?

Again these aren't my beliefs, but this is the next step that comes out of the confusion I get by reading the book, and Terrence litterally! I gotta read it liberally and understand that there are underlying currents to what is being said...or none of it makes sense to me.
 
wil said:
How does the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent screw up so bad? Creating such sinners, creating a hell to suffer in, a devil to fight.
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Actually, God built a perfect world. It is we who %$#*ed it away (excuse my self-censored French). In sin, we created ourselves. God is in the business of fixing everything. It is a work in progress.
 
Was not a screw up at all. :(

He knew Adam and Eve were gonna screw it all up. He knew man would continue in sin. He knew Jesus would pay the price for us all. He knew Jesus would suffer like no man before or since. He knew that people would twist his words and stories. He knew people would discount his son and say oh he was just some good man. He knew it all.

He wanted people to want to be with him, if he wanted a bunch of robots he could have definately had that.:D
 
Quahom1 said:
God SUFFERED HELL? No, He conquered it last time I checked. He might have paid the fine, but as I recall He reminded the Father to "Forgive them, for they know not what they do". He never told anyone to stop sinning. There is no prerequisite to become a Christian except to Believe unto Him. Minor details are worked out later.

Oh, I also think it is "trust in Christ" FIRST. Repentence will naturally follow.

But then, I'm not a preacher, just a lowly sailor...
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Yes, Christ conquered hell, but he also suffered it on behalf of sinners. See how agapy His love is? Its unthinkable! There is NOTHING in use deserving of His kindness, mercy or love, especaially when you get a glimpse of God's holiness and our sinfulness, yet He died to save evil men. As for Jesus telling people to stop sinning, yes he did. He told His disciples, the woman caught in adultery, and many others. Finally, there are 2 biblical ways to becoming saved: Repentance and Faith. You dont believe first and later down the line repent. It is a two-sided coin and somthing instantaneous that occurs when someone is being born agian. True faith will always instantaneously produce repentance, as repentance is a fruit of faith. This dosnt mean that the believer will not, but instead the believer will not stay in or live in habital sin because he cannot.
 
Terrence said:
For: Moses

Its only idolatry when the god you worship is not the God of the Bible. Yes, the God of the Bible is Love. Man, I cant express in words how great and awesome and amazing His love Really is. But, you will never understand His love apart from His Holiness and wrath. How could you really appriciate the gift of the Cure (Jesus) without understanding your sickness (sin)? You cant! Love God for who He reveals Himself to be in the Bible and you will do fine. Most people, however, cant and wont.
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OK, God is love so there is no idolatry in worshipping him. So what's the problem here? In reality, since the finite cannot fathom the infinite, whatever conception you have of God is essentially an idol. Hence why some people have a problem with assigning petty human emotions to a being that is supposedly ineffable.
 
For: wil

How does the omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent screw up so bad? Creating such sinners, creating a hell to suffer in, a devil to fight.

Srew up? Nah, thats not the God of the Bible! First, the God of the Bible makes perfect people who falls and does someone crazy, like die in their place to save them, so that for all time, He may be known as the Good God He is and be glorified in it. He does everything for His Glory. You're living His glorious story, thats why we call it "history." Get it? His story, history. Sorry, Im kinda corny at times. Buy anyway, God is in total control! Nothing happens apart from His will. He allows things to occure for His own purposes and will to be extablished. No one can fight against Him. The devil is afarid of Him as well are all the demons and all unregenerated sinners (when they see Him). The devil gets permission from God to do things and if God premits it, he may do what he asks of God.

I mean if my kid builds his SimCity and it fails and he has to destroy it and build it over...makes sense...he's a kid playing a computer game...But if the almighty all knowing goes out and creates such a disaster, what does that say about the grand poobah?

You got it twisted homey, God didnt create a disaster. You should watch what you say, He knows your thoughts and could, if he feels, judge you on your blasphemy. Again, reconize that God premits things that are contrary to his will, like sin and all it entails, to be glorified in his forgivness of men.

Again these aren't my beliefs, but this is the next step that comes out of the confusion I get by reading the book, and Terrence litterally! I gotta read it liberally and understand that there are underlying currents to what is being said...or none of it makes sense to me.

I believe you. And you know what? I'll glady explain any questions you may have. If you like, you may call me and we could talk.
 
moseslmpg said:
OK, God is love so there is no idolatry in worshipping him. So what's the problem here? In reality, since the finite cannot fathom the infinite, whatever conception you have of God is essentially an idol. Hence why some people have a problem with assigning petty human emotions to a being that is supposedly ineffable.
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Short answer: Read the Bible and allow it to interprete itself instead of putting limitations on it and adding presuppossitions and you will know who God revealed Himself to be. That way, you wont be committing idolatry, unless you want to.
 
I have read some of the Bible and I don't see why I have to worship God as a grumpy mob boss type fellow, rather than a generally nice guy. I also fail to see what the Bible has to do with God here, seeing as how those are only words used to describe God and they are subject to interpretation, conscious or otherwise; they merely point to the Moon, as it were, and are not the Moon itself.
 
moseslmpg said:
I have read some of the Bible and I don't see why I have to worship God as a grumpy mob boss type fellow, rather than a generally nice guy. I also fail to see what the Bible has to do with God here, seeing as how those are only words used to describe God and they are subject to interpretation, conscious or otherwise; they merely point to the Moon, as it were, and are not the Moon itself.
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OK. But, I'll tell you this (whether you choose to accept/believe it or not doesnt matter). The Bible is sufficent proof of who God is and what He requires of you. You may continue to supress the truth and believe what you may, but it will not change the truth and reality that one day you will stand before Him and be judged for all your sins, whether in thoughts or in deeds. You may stand as a condemned unregenerated sinner, or you may be blessed with unspeakable joy and be standing as a forgiven sinner who is saved by grace. The choice is up to God. I pray He gives you mercy!!
 
Yeah, I know that. I don't see how it is even possible to commit idolatry unless you make something and purposefully worship it as something that is not God. Whether you worship Him as some loving, merciful guy or the Godfather or even a non-anthropomorphic principle should not matter.
 
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