Greatest Proof of a Lack of a Deity?

[Quahom1]

Maybe God listened to the old aphorism "Give a man fish, you feed him for a day; teach him to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."

Maybe God believes it is better for us to learn how to use our free will to avoid or deal with our challenges than to rescue us every day.

But then again, maybe He hopes for us to use our free will turn to Him, so He can teach us, so He doesn't have to rescue us from ourselves every day.

v/r

Q

 

[lunamoth]

Just bumping the thread so I can see Q's post. (looks like some of the web bugs might be back)

 

[Quahom1]

Just bumping the thread so I can see Q's post. (looks like some of the web bugs might be back)

Mom told me to watch out for things that go "bump" in the night...

 

[bob x]

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day; teach a man to fish, and he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day.

 

[Jean freeman]

Suffering in any capacity is a learning humanistic experience do not blame God

 

[Dondi]

Suffering in any capacity is a learning humanistic experience do not blame God

Does suffering include 'acts of God'? (i.e. earthquakes, hurricanes, etc.) Or diseases?

 

[Jean freeman]

Does suffering include 'acts of God'? (i.e. earthquakes, hurricanes, etc.) Or diseases?

Of course everything bad would have to be down to God. We as humans cant make our own choices. Atheism has always presented itself as a liberator, however this led to moral and political violence in Stalinism. Also respectfully suggest you look at effects of Globalisation which have led to "man made acts".

 

[17th Angel]

Suffering in any capacity is a learning humanistic experience do not blame God

I agree.... Can't really blame something that doesn't exist... However there is much blame... And it needs to be handed out.... Fingers need to be pointed... And judgements need to be made...... And all of this should be directed at man.....

 

[Eudaimonist]

We as humans cant make our own choices. Atheism has always presented itself as a liberator, however this led to moral and political violence in Stalinism.

An example of a bad choice doesn't mean that we are incapable of making good choices.

And I really don't want to rehash the atheism-Stalinism issue, but I think it is unfair to lay Stalinism at the feet of "atheism". Stalinism arose from a very specific ideology involving political and moral collectivism. Atheists can be individualists instead.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Jean freeman]

No thats very true

 

[Dondi]

Of course everything bad would have to be down to God.

So then how does that make for our learning experience? What are we suppose to learn when loved ones are swept away in a flood? I don't think anyone wants to go to class that day.

 

[citizenzen]

Jean freeman,

Shall we trot out all of the cases where violence and oppression were committed in the name of your religion?

I would hope that you're intelligent enough to understand that your current line of reasoning could used against you as easily as you would use it against others.

How intelligent are you, JF?

Let's find out.

 

[Courage]

pain & suffering is a universal at least once in any sentient's life, and a deity responsible for the gazillions of past, present, and future experiencers should be ashamed of itself...especially if it were a judgmental deity on top of that. it remains the single greatest argument against a conscious creator.

what are other obvious arguments against the existence of a deity that you ascribe to?

dcv-

It's already answered in the very first chapter of the Scripture.

All human suffering comes from the Fall caused by Adam. Human pain and death are inevitable. God will save souls but not bodies.

 

[Eclectic Mystic]

Jean freeman,

Shall we trot out all of the cases where violence and oppression were committed in the name of your religion?

I would hope that you're intelligent enough to understand that your current line of reasoning could used against you as easily as you would use it against others.

How intelligent are you, JF?

Let's find out.

Since you interested in going this direction, please do me the favor of trying to find any record of any atrocities that were anywhere near the magnitude of the Soviets' that a monarchy of divine right has committed. Politicians need checks and balances to come from government- but a true leader will need them to come from God.

 

[17th Angel]

Give or take a few people.... But in the bible alone because of god 35 million are murdered. (most by him lol)

With that kind of role model, what do you expect from the sheep??

 

[Eclectic Mystic]

Give or take a few people.... But in the bible alone because of god 35 million are murdered. (most by him lol)

With that kind of role model, what do you expect from the sheep??

God doesn't kill people, people kill people. Also, you should specify that you're looking exclusively at the Old Testament.

Furthermore, sheep are actually a phenomenon of the modern world who are promoted by the secular-humanist liberals and socialists breeding the "Last Man".

Regarding Stalin and the Soviets, there were never such murderous people within the royalty of the previous kingdoms from East Germany to Russia that the Soviet sphere of influence later devoured.

 

[17th Angel]

Of course god doesn't..... lol. Pretty impossible for a non-existant being to kill. But in the story books people hold so dear..... god, most certainly -does- kill. And the "people of god(s)" have continued this lovley act ever since.

Why should I express I am looking exclusively at the old testament? What difference does that make? Oh wait yeah, I see.... Cause that is a complete different god(personality) to the one in the new testament....

Deut 32:39... Who is talking there?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Politicians need checks and balances to come from government- but a true leader will need them to come from God.

A true leader needs them to come from his own convictions, whether they are part of a theistic or an atheistic worldview.

Men and women of integrity are not exclusively found among theists.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[shawn]

[youtube]R7xkqkveCqo[/youtube]

 

[Eclectic Mystic]

Men like Stalin are exclusively found amongst atheists. It seems that Plato accurately predicted that such Tyrants emerge from secular socialist democracies. If you want to talk about conviction, please talk about justifiable conviction. Atheists lack the conviction to assert that eternal truths exist.

On the other hand, please look at the royal aristocracies I pointed out. From these emerge lovers of wisdom who value the truth so much that they would allow themselves to be dragged down by it if it were necessary.

If the equation 2+2=4 was convenient for Stalin one day he would keep it. But if it became inconvenient on another day, he would simply have it changed to 2+2=5.