How can Jesus be the messiah?

S

Sunny_day

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
0
1. Before the messiah comes Elijah must VISIBLY come down from heaven. John the Baptist tells everyone he is not Elijah. Therefore anything written after the Tanahk must be false (The new testament) because of the simple fact that Elijah has not presented himself.

2. 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God
(King James Bible, Romans)

When Jesus came every knee did not bow, in fact the majority of knees did not bow.

3. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(King James Bible, Isaiah)

When Jesus came the government was not on his shoulders.

4. 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
(King James Bible, Micah)

Cleary Jesus was not a ruler in Israel. Moving on.

5. 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
(King James Bible, Psalms)

Prophecy that will happen when the messiah comes. Did Jesus fulfil it? no

6. 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
(King James Bible, Jeremiah)

Jesus was not a king and did not reign and prosper. Did not judge amoung the nations

7. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
(King James Bible, Isaiah)

Obviously people of Jesus' time still knew war, in fact there is war today! I still see guns, swords, cannons, etc. So how can people know war today if Jesus was in fact the messiah that came some 2000 years ago. This prophecy was not fulfiled by this man.

Discuss.
 
Sunny_day said:
How can Jesus be the messiah?
Click to expand...
Because God said so in various times through many prophets before, during, and after that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
The first coming of Jesus is for our forgiveness, salvation, and spiritual rebirth.
He came humbled as a servant; though some saw with their eyes and dismissed a peaceable, loving, and humble man, because they were looking for a warrior and defeater of enemies; others saw God in his spirit, words, acts, and his fulfillment of the prophecies as the son of god. It is through his crucifixion and resurrection that the greatest power ever is put into effect, and that is the power of god's grace and chance at eternal life with him, and the enemy being defeated was eternal death and damnation.
The second coming of the glorious lord jesus will be take gather what is his and take vengeance on those that do evil and wickedness in the world. although god is holy and righteous, his bridges the gap between sinful man with the messiah, jesus christ so we might be saved. with god all things are possible.
 
1. Before the messiah comes Elijah must VISIBLY come down from heaven. John the Baptist tells everyone he is not Elijah. Therefore anything written after the Tanahk must be false (The new testament) because of the simple fact that Elijah has not presented himself.

John the baptist is the voice in the wilderness..a type of Elijah.. you might see Elijah again when He comes back to witness at the wailing wall.

Isaiah 40:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness: "Prepare the way of the Lord; Make straight in the desert A highway for our God.

Matthew 3:3 For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight.' "

also found in mark luke and john

2. 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God
(King James Bible, Romans)

This is speaking of the second coming of Christ.. Romans was written AFTER Christ died resurrected and ascended to heaven.

When Jesus came every knee did not bow, in fact the majority of knees did not bow.

3. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
(King James Bible, Isaiah)

When Jesus came the government was not on his shoulders.

Once again...Second coming of Christ.

4. 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
(King James Bible, Micah)

Cleary Jesus was not a ruler in Israel. Moving on.

Same as above :)

5. 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
(King James Bible, Psalms)

Prophecy that will happen when the messiah comes. Did Jesus fulfil it? no

Second coming once again.

6. 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
(King James Bible, Jeremiah)

Jesus was not a king and did not reign and prosper. Did not judge amoung the nations

Once again...second coming.

7. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
(King James Bible, Isaiah)

Obviously people of Jesus' time still knew war, in fact there is war today! I still see guns, swords, cannons, etc. So how can people know war today if Jesus was in fact the messiah that came some 2000 years ago. This prophecy was not fulfiled by this man.

Again second coming...
Discuss

The first appearance of Christ He was establishing His kingdom in the hearts of men... When He comes again He will be establishing His kingdom on earth...
Nice attempt at discrediting Jesus..well actually it wasnt THAT good of an attempt.

Next....
 
actually jesus is king, and lord, and god, always was, just some don't recognize it. those that do see beyond the physical or just believe 100% what god has said.
 
Sunny_day said:
...Obviously people of Jesus' time still knew war, in fact there is war today! I still see guns, swords, cannons, etc. So how can people know war today if Jesus was in fact the messiah that came some 2000 years ago. This prophecy was not fulfiled by this man.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

Yet...;) But He certainly set the stage for His return...Indeed, it appears He has unfinished business, and so far has met every criteria that the "messiah" is supposed to meet.

v/r

Joshua

Oh, and welcome to CR Sunny. ;)
 
Sunny Day said:
1. Before the messiah comes Elijah must VISIBLY come down from heaven. John the Baptist tells everyone he is not Elijah. Therefore anything written after the Tanahk must be false (The new testament) because of the simple fact that Elijah has not presented himself.
Click to expand...

In addition to what FS said, I would point put that there is evidence pointing toward a literal return of Elijah before Christ comes.

In Revelation 11, we see two witnesses who will proclaim the gospel to the world in Jerusalem:

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." - Rev 11:3-6

One of the powers that these two witnesses possess is the ability to cause the rain to stop, which Elijah accomplished in I Kings 17 at the time of King Ahab's reign. The other witness some believe to be Moses, since he caused the Nile to turn to blood in Exodus 7 as the first of many plagues to affect Egypt.

It may be a confirmation that Moses and Elijah are the two witnesses when they appeared in the Transfiguration with Jesus in Luke 9, Mark 9, and Matthew 17. It was after this transfiguration that the dsciples inquired about Elijah and Jesus replying that Elijah has already come in John the Baptist, but Jerusalem rejected his message.
 
It seems there are some points for discussion here which should not be simply written off or ignored. If one person has questions then others will, especially in this high speed internet age. The answers currently given do not satisfy the questions fully. The most pertinent answer I see to date is the one disconting the question due to it being new testament, not old testament prophecy.

To continue, is it written in the old testament that the second coming anticipated in the old testament?

ie that the Messiah will take two trips to accomplish these prophecies?
 
wil said:
It seems there are some points for discussion here which should not be simply written off or ignored. If one person has questions then others will, especially in this high speed internet age. The answers currently given do not satisfy the questions fully. The most pertinent answer I see to date is the one disconting the question due to it being new testament, not old testament prophecy.

To continue, is it written in the old testament that the second coming anticipated in the old testament?

ie that the Messiah will take two trips to accomplish these prophecies?
Click to expand...


Daniel 9:24-26:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

The word translated "cut off" is the Hebrew word "karath"
hs372.gif
hs370.gif
hs353.gif
which means to kill. It is the same word used in Genesis 9:11 where God promises Noah that "...neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth."

So the dilemma here is how can the Messiah establish His Kingdom "to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy" if the Messiah will be killed?
 
wil said:
It seems there are some points for discussion here which should not be simply written off or ignored. If one person has questions then others will, especially in this high speed internet age. The answers currently given do not satisfy the questions fully. The most pertinent answer I see to date is the one disconting the question due to it being new testament, not old testament prophecy.

To continue, is it written in the old testament that the second coming anticipated in the old testament?

ie that the Messiah will take two trips to accomplish these prophecies?
Click to expand...

Actually, yes. Two trips. One to prepare the way, and the other to finish the mission. I believe you'll find the OT verses you are looking for in the "Criteria for a Messiah" thread.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
Yet...;) But He certainly set the stage for His return...Indeed, it appears He has unfinished business, and so far has met every criteria that the "messiah" is supposed to meet.

v/r

Joshua

Oh, and welcome to CR Sunny. ;)
Click to expand...

Well Joshua,

I guess that is a matter of perspective.

John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

No if, ands or buts. Perhaps you confuse the work of the man Jesus with the spirit of Christ. Just a different perspective to consider.

Peace,
JM
 
JosephM said:
Well Joshua,

I guess that is a matter of perspective.

John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

No if, ands or buts. Perhaps you confuse the work of the man Jesus with the spirit of Christ. Just a different perspective to consider.

Peace,
JM
Click to expand...

At that point in time. However Jesus' job is no way near finished. Revelation has yet to be completed...unless you don't accept Revelation as prophecy...
 
Quahom1 said:
At that point in time. However Jesus' job is no way near finished. Revelation has yet to be completed...unless you don't accept Revelation as prophecy...
Click to expand...

Perhaps Revelations is a very spiritual book and not to be interpreted literally. Perhaps Jesus finished his work in the flesh and the book is more about revealing Christ in you than a physical work as you seem to suspect.

JM
 
Lets look at the parallel of Yom Kippur and Easter Sunday...

The High Priest would wear white linen and enter the chamber with the Ark of the Covenant once a year on the day of atonement.. he would sprinkle 7 times the blood of the sacrifice on the mercy seat. This would be for the forgiveness of sins when and if he left that chamber all would know that Israels sins were forgiven....

Jesus was laid out in the tomb wrapped in white linen on a slab of stone.. blood from 7 places on His body, back, head. hand. hand. foot, foot... when He arose and left that chamber as High Priest.. all who come to Him and accept His sacrifice..... their sins are forgiven...forever.

We know we can go boldly to the throne of grace and always find mercy. He is our Messiah .. our Savior.
 
JosephM said:
Perhaps Revelations is a very spiritual book and not to be interpreted literally. Perhaps Jesus finished his work in the flesh and the book is more about revealing Christ in you than a physical work as you seem to suspect.

JM
Click to expand...

Naw, I tried to be God once...responsiblity was just too damn much...
 
Faithfulservant said:
Jesus was laid out in the tomb wrapped in white linen on a slab of stone.. blood from 7 places on His body, back, head. hand. hand. foot, foot...
Click to expand...
although all things do point to christ and his salvation.. i dont think 7 reflects the parts of his body as it does the number god uses to show completion and perfection, such as the 7th day god rested from all his creation.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
although all things do point to christ and his salvation.. i dont think 7 reflects the parts of his body as it does the number god uses to show completion and perfection, such as the 7th day god rested from all his creation.
Click to expand...

why limit the number 7 in this situation... why cant it point to both... the High Priest sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice 7 times on the mercy seat... Jesus sprinkled blood from 7 places on His body.. He is obviously fulfilling a foreshadow from the OT...why belabor the point with making the number 7 only mean ONE thing..
 
Faithfulservant said:
why limit the number 7 in this situation... why cant it point to both... the High Priest sprinkled the blood of the sacrifice 7 times on the mercy seat... Jesus sprinkled blood from 7 places on His body.. He is obviously fulfilling a foreshadow from the OT...why belabor the point with making the number 7 only mean ONE thing..
Click to expand...

One could leave the door open for other "sevens"...There are seven Chakras or spheres of energy within the human body according to eastern traditions...
 
If you thread six beads of equal size and attach the ends of the string together tightly to form a circle, a seventh bead of equal size will fit perfectly in the center.

Chris
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top