is Evil real?

Ciel said:
Q, Many of us grew up when we realised we had the choise to make a better go at life than our parents. And choice as a key word........

- c -
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Ciel, I opine that we have done so "well" that our streets are less secure today than they were 50 years ago...but then back then, we were "naive" about life. Hmmm, naive and relatively safe then, knowledgable and more educated than our parents, but less sure now...tough one to call.

v/r

Joshua

p.s. as an aside and an example: When I was a child in school, it was standard that any misbehavior on my part, might have gotten me a "paddling" from the principal, and one from my parents when I got home. Needless to say, I wouldn't do whatever I did, again.

When my sons were at school (during the 80s and 90s), I had to present the principal of their school with a notarized letter specifically stating that that school had the authority to "paddle" their backsides should they misbehave (plus I provided them with the "board of education") paddle to do exactly that. They called me quaint, but promised if it came to such, they would discipline my children as I requested. They also thanked me for trusting their judgment to act on my behalf, pertaining to disciplining my children. (This was in Orange County California). They never had to use such measures, but my sons "KNEW" there were measures in place if THEY got an ass about them...

Can't do that today. (what a shame).
 
Q,

My, you have something of a way of playing the patriarch indeed. And I being a mere child born only ten years before you. Now...... in my grandmothers day......

Havn't we gone a little off topic?

- c -
 
Ciel said:
Q,

My, you have something of a way of playing the patriarch indeed. And I being a mere child born only ten years before you. Now...... in my grandmothers day......

Havn't we gone a little off topic?

- c -
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I don't know...perhaps you were a better child than me. I certainly got my ass beat more times than I can remember. But I never laid a hand on my own, because I learned how to avoid setting them up for the same mistakes, and learned a better way to correct them when they did make mistakes. But the patriarchal paddle was hovering over their heads just the same...and I make not apologies for that.

And no, we aren't off topic. Many would consider this "EVIL". I opine it is right in line, and at the core of the problems we face today.

v/r

Joshua

p.s. forgot to mention: I didn't paddle my kids' butts, but my wife had no problem doing that...does that make it a "matriarchal" issue?
 
Ciel said:
Greetings Joseph,
You appear to be a man tuned to a certain awareness and aware of a certain play of existence. Yet how I question and have questioned this statement....they know not what they do..... for if this planet is to survive it is imperative that we do know. Time to wake up from 2000 years of slumber. It's waking to the fact that we must take responsibility for our actions. Christ came on a predetermined mission unfortunately he was given a lousy script where the end play was concerned.

- c -
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Hello Ciel,

I must admit to a certain play at least on words. I do see man/woman as inherrently innocent. They are perfect without exception in every way. Obviously, the reality I see is not shared by many.

When I was a boy, I was told it was 'bad' to cross the street alone. As I grew in understanding and awareness, I realized that it was not actually 'bad' but rather just an unwise thing for a small youth to attempt unescorted. In this world, I find our mind trapped in a polarity of opposites that no matter how deep I look into I find no reality. Everything has consequences but 'Evil' as an opposite of 'good' is ambiguous and arbitrary. As this stage of awareness I indeed see no such thing as 'evil'. Evil to 'who' I must ask because it is only perceptual. Only Love exists. It is real. In the absence of some degree of love we put a 'tag' of evil on it. But in doing so you have drawn a demarcation line where none exists and is prone to movement by individuals, societies and times. Some say 'killing' is 'evil' and yet in war time we make heros out of them who have killed many. We demonize the other side as if we are justified and they are 'evil'. It is the cause of much war and suffering. What is this word 'evil'? You can't put your hands quite on it because it is an ever changing concept of mind that puts us under a law to our definition of the knowledge of 'good' and 'evil' when in reality it doesn't exist. Nothing in this creation, no matter how it looks is out of the will of the One who created it. Its perfection can be seen but not with the eyes of flesh and the concepts created by the mind of men and women.

Thanks for your patience and I will say no more unless asked. I sincerely hope I have not irratated anyone here. I respect your right to believe as you choose and wish only the peace of God for you all.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
JosephM said:
Hello Ciel,

Thanks for your patience and I will say no more unless asked. I sincerely hope I have not irratated anyone here. I respect your right to believe as you choose and wish only the peace of God for you all.

Love in Christ,
JM
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I know this is addressed to Ciel, but I just wanted to chime in and assure you that you've ruffled no feathers with me. It's an interesting discussion and I think I hear what you are saying, and largely agree. I'm glad you keep on posting and would miss your voice if you stopped.

I've been thinking about evil not so much in the instance of war--you are right about the ambiguities there. Although I would say that killing combatants in war is one thing, and deciding to rape and kill women and children in the name of ethnic cleansing during war is another.

I've been thinking more about the demons that haunt us in self-destructive things like drug and alcohol addictions, and when we give into temptations such as lashing out at others in anger even when we know it's wrong (having been there recently).

luna
 
Joseph, thank you for your reply.

There is indeed an overview from this life able to see all things are as they are according to the premise of understanding where the divine plan is concerned, yet there is no perfection without balance in affairs of reality. A man may live in truth of balance, without mind play there is peace, through self connection, in the presence of the grace of God there is peace, yet in this world people starve for the spiritual, they starve for food of mercy and they starve for a bowl of rice to sustain them daily. Food of life manifest through humanity and God. I ask the simple question, where is the distribution? For it appears many still wait to recieve the sustenance and nourishment when the table is fully loaded for others.

- c -
 
Ciel said:
Joseph, thank you for your reply.

There is indeed an overview from this life able to see all things are as they are according to the premise of understanding where the divine plan is concerned, yet there is no perfection without balance in affairs of reality. A man may live in truth of balance, without mind play there is peace, through self connection, in the presence of the grace of God there is peace, yet in this world people starve for the spiritual, they starve for food of mercy and they starve for a bowl of rice to sustain them daily. Food of life manifest through humanity and God. I ask the simple question, where is the distribution? For it appears many still wait to recieve the sustenance and nourishment when the table is fully loaded for others.

- c -
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Ceil,
In the end, You ask a very difficult question to answer without elaborating on the nature of consciousness itself. Perhaps sometime another thread would be appropriate for such a discussion. In my experience it has been shown that life is not as it appears. There are no causes in this world. It is a world of effects only. All that you see comes from that which cannot be seen with these eyes. Divine justice prevails in all things including what appears as the subject of your question. But to undersatnd it at least partly with this mind , one has to enter the realm unknown to the mind. It is there that 'reality' stands alone and one glimpses the perfection of that which appeared to the mind as flawed and imperfect and it disappears as illusory. No words can take one there but to grasp the oneness of Christ, if even for a moment, this kingdom is seen and is found not to be distant or of a physical locale but right here, right now 'within' and in it one can find hid all knowledge and understanding. May you be blessed in discovery of knowledge and understanding far exceeding all of your greatest expectations.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
JosephM said:
Hmm. When I read this I see people dancing and laughing at burning bodies. No more ... no less.... That is not evil to them. It is only evil in your eyes because you have defined it so and found a multitude of others to agree with you. It seems to me that one can make perception a reality in their own mind. It is not a reality in their eyes. To them it is justice. But the question remains. Is evil real? The answer remains.... Only in the mind of the beholder.
Just a thought to consider.

PS. Prober, you make good points. No need to bend when the heat gets hot. :)

Love in Christ,
JM
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I'm sorry. Did I miss something here? Even when El Duce was strung up with his wife in Italy, it was said that that was evil. He never went to trial. He was strung up like an animal. The contractors were strung up like animals. No trial, no nothing. Just because it isn't evil to you, means what? It isn't evil at all?

Getting hot now? lol

Even steel bends with heat (even by one degree).

But maybe it is just me being American. See we don't desecrate bodies once dead. It just isn't in us. I don't know, I just find that kind of behavior evil.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
But maybe it is just me being American. See we don't desecrate bodies once dead. It just isn't in us. I don't know, I just find that kind of behavior evil.
Click to expand...
No, you guys do it while people are still alive, by urinating on them, or making them strip and form human pyramids.
Your self-righteousness is disgusting.
 
JosephM said:
Ceil,
In the end, You ask a very difficult question to answer without elaborating on the nature of consciousness itself. Perhaps sometime another thread would be appropriate for such a discussion. In my experience it has been shown that life is not as it appears. There are no causes in this world. It is a world of effects only. All that you see comes from that which cannot be seen with these eyes. Divine justice prevails in all things including what appears as the subject of your question. But to undersatnd it at least partly with this mind , one has to enter the realm unknown to the mind. It is there that 'reality' stands alone and one glimpses the perfection of that which appeared to the mind as flawed and imperfect and it disappears as illusory. No words can take one there but to grasp the oneness of Christ, if even for a moment, this kingdom is seen and is found not to be distant or of a physical locale but right here, right now 'within' and in it one can find hid all knowledge and understanding. May you be blessed in discovery of knowledge and understanding far exceeding all of your greatest expectations.

Love in Christ,
JM
Click to expand...


Joseph,

There is no question concerning the nature of consciousness.
There is only a statement revealing reality.

Must I play devils advocate to break through blessed illusion of those still sleeping... this in the nature of all love and compassion.

- c -
 
Ciel said:
Joseph,

There is no question concerning the nature of consciousness.
There is only a statement revealing reality.

Must I play devils advocate to break through blessed illusion of those still sleeping... this in the nature of all love and compassion.

- c -
Click to expand...

My sincere apologies Ciel. A perceptual error on my part.
 
JosephM said:
My sincere apologies Ciel. A perceptual error on my part.
Click to expand...

Dear Joseph, You know, no need to apologise, and there is no error, only this sense of the sublime, irrational and rational standing side by side. I believe you may understand. Reading your words was a beautiful moment.

Love, light and peace

- c -
 
EVIL is real. I have a computer program that demonstrates the concept pretty well. Anyone want a copy? Its heart is a random number generator, which it obtains from a number of timed events, file sizes, and pseudo-random functions. It does make a few writes to the hard-drive, but mostly it just disables the keyboard and randomly finds files to open and play with in front of your eyes. It experiments. It even tries to make new things out of your old files. It makes little modifications here and there... right in front of your eyes. Like an extra keystroke, a delete here and there. A few routines to change various kinds of files. It tries to merge some files. It will play with sound files, JPG's, GIF's, etc... text files, MS Word files, Excell files, Outlook files, etc... It will try other applications but doesn't have too many smarts with them. It looks for English text to tweek, replacing words here and there. It is not a virus but you will have to disable the virus protection. It won't spread beyond your hard drive. I was thinking of calling the program: Evol... short for evolution. I am going to have to write a long disclaimer though to share it with anyone. Afterall... it is EVIL.
 
We must all realize no one holds the corner on morality....again all ethnicities, all nations, all religions have their folks who have performed abhorant behaviour.

We often ignore or attempt to minimilize our own deficiencies all the while condemning others....this to is fairly normal in our race.

Self righteousness doesn't hold up on any of us. The goal in my book is to move forward and quit pointing fingers and whining...'momma, he hit me first!'
 
wil said:
We must all realize no one holds the corner on morality....again all ethnicities, all nations, all religions have their folks who have performed abhorant behaviour.

We often ignore or attempt to minimilize our own deficiencies all the while condemning others....this to is fairly normal in our race.

Self righteousness doesn't hold up on any of us. The goal in my book is to move forward and quit pointing fingers and whining...'momma, he hit me first!'
Click to expand...

I'll second that Wil.
:)
JM
 
Yes, I believe Evil is very real:

Liars' Brains Wired Differently

But at least knowing this, we could do something about it. And after reading this article, I have to wonder, if Jesus is the opposite of the Great Deciever, would he have been an extremely high functioning autistic savant?
 
RevKelly said:
Yes, I believe Evil is very real:

Liars' Brains Wired Differently

But at least knowing this, we could do something about it. And after reading this article, I have to wonder, if Jesus is the opposite of the Great Deciever, would he have been an extremely high functioning autistic savant?
Click to expand...

Because the liars brain is wired differently does that make evil real? If anything it would indicate that lying is natural for people born wired that way. There is nothing evil about that in and of itself but to him that esteems it evil, it is evil. Does that make evil real? What is evil? Try to define it for us.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
I think in order to see a higher truth it would be necessary to look deeply into the question itself, is the question appropriate to what we are really asking? At what level then would the question and the answer appear as the same thing? And have we then created a Koan? I know how ambiguous this must sound but I can't help it popping into my mind after reading these posts.

Peace
 
I would think Evil is anything that intentionally hurts yourself or Humanity.

(What exactly is a Koan, Paladin? I understand that 'the sound of one hand clapping' is a Koan, but I'm not sure what the definition is)
 
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